2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

[mookie1995]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

I get that and generally agree. Esp if I was doing a major PR campaign.

Issue is that she's going to be inflammatory. The 'Donald Trump is a loser' and 'poor are getting the shaft' message over and over (whether true or not) works against the positive message that you appear to be trying to instill in us. Its not the successful path of B. Clinton or Obama and plays right into Trump ALL CAPS anger wheelhouse. She is a problem.

plus keep going on and on about helping the poor overlooks the very people that moved to tD (and also works to kill warren). the big mass middle there has nobody helping them. so at least when tD tells them he will keep the bad hombres down (while allowing the rich to keep gettin' on), the big mass middle has an ally at attached onto. when dems attack the rich and tie an anchor to the poor (ie. colored ) the big mass middle see no hope for them.

identity politics plays. us v. them rich v. poor black v. white north v. south etc, etc, etc

dems need to stop splitting their audience and find one bogey man. learn from tD.

attack the rich. tax them over 650k if it makes kep happy
don't split your voters.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

I get that and generally agree. Esp if I was doing a major PR campaign.

Issue is that she's going to be inflammatory. The 'Donald Trump is a loser' and 'poor are getting the shaft' message over and over (whether true or not) works against the positive message that you appear to be trying to instill in us. Its not the successful path of B. Clinton or Obama and plays right into Trump ALL CAPS anger wheelhouse. She is a problem.

May I suggest, instead:

"I like Amy Klobuchar (or whoever) because she is able to deliver a warm, yet strongly liberal, message that resonates with people without putting large numbers of potential voters on the immediate defensive. I think she strikes a good balance between promoting solid progressive aims and inviting all well-intentioned people to the conversation by not being incendiary."

When I look at our field of probables I don't see any candidate I strongly object to. Obviously, I have my favorites -- if you're familiar with my left-of-thomas-piketty economic philosophy you can guess who they are. But take say Booker or Gillibrand -- social liberals who are perhaps not as aggressive on financial reform as I would want. If they win the primaries then I am all in for them. I can find plenty to love about all the Democratic challengers. And, of course, one cannot overstate how important it is to uproot not just the current administration but the Republican majority in the Senate as well.

My time volunteering the past year has taught me that what I want to say doesn't matter as much as what I can do to help the policies I want come into actual being. I'm very lucky that I live with somebody who actually writes policy all day long -- she actually gets paid to do what I am trying to help as a hobby. So in a way the most effective I can be is likely just to make sure her life is easier so she can be more effective doing the actual work. I try to do that. But I'm also trying to detoxify the Democratic conversation because I feel that the less friction we generate among ourselves the more time and energy we have to oppose the real enemy to democracy and basic decency that has taken hold in this country. And I do this coming from a history where I have been among the absolute worst in being divisive, rude, and snotty.

This is an existential struggle, in terms of both the environment and the future of democracy on this planet. It is the only actually important political struggle of our lifetimes, on par with the Civil War, WW2, and the Cold War. We must win this. So we all must help and support each other. Once we have beaten this lethal reactionary monster back to powerlessness we will have the luxury of taking pot shots at each other if we still want to. But as far as I'm concerned until we have won you and every other ally are Jesus Christ with sugar on top.

 

[Rover]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

plus keep going on and on about helping the poor overlooks the very people that moved to tD (and also works to kill warren). the big mass middle there has nobody helping them. so at least when tD tells them he will keep the bad hombres down (while allowing the rich to keep gettin' on), the big mass middle has an ally at attached onto. when dems attack the rich and tie an anchor to the poor (ie. colored ) the big mass middle see no hope for them.

identity politics plays. us v. them rich v. poor black v. white north v. south etc, etc, etc

dems need to stop splitting their audience and find one bogey man. learn from tD.

attack the rich. tax them over 650k if it makes kep happy
don't split your voters.

The "boogeyman" is the Republican party, as in its elected officials, and it needs to be described in plain English for what it is: a treasonous money laundering cult. Every criticism you want to level at an individual you're trying to take down needs to hit that theme - they're the enemy. They will take money from anybody, anywhere, in order to funnel your tax dollars to billionaires. For example, middle class working stiffs, how much of that glorious tax cut did you see? None of it, maybe? Why is it so important for conservatives to take away your Medicare? How many checks from bank accounts in Russia have been cashed by your GOP Rep? If the Taliban formed a SuperPAC and started funding the Republican National Committee, who thinks Mitch McConnell would start pushing Taliban friendly legislation as long as the donations were big enough?

Hit them with hot button issues and show that we're all getting screwed by a cult with no pride, courage, patriotism or love of country. Its not like they haven't given us a treasure trove of material to work with. No more being polite.

 

[unofan]

With full respect to you, my recommendation is that we should put forward the positives of our favorite candidates rather than fault find the rest of the field. There will ten or so strong Democratic candidates and all but one of them will not win the nomination. Hence, about 90% of us are going to be backing a candidate in the general who we would not say is our ideal choice today. All Democrats are on the same team. Whoever we choose as our starting QB, all the rest need to be helping on the sideline on game day in November 2020.

So, if you do prefer youth then please phrase it as "I like Beto's youth." We can all connect the dots that Warren does not score well on that attribute and thus, insofar as that attribute is important to one, she is not your ideal choice at this time.

"Beto is good because..." starts a much different conversation than "Warren is bad because..." These little things make a difference. They defuse the mutual distrust and rancor we sometimes generate about each other, waste less energy on infighting, and make it a lot less embarrassing to backpeddle when it comes time to pull together behind the eventual nominee.

The other thing I would gently recommend is to keep an open mind. If you draw a line in the sand early then you are much less likely to listen impartially to the candidates, to your own detriment. The nomination should be, in my opinion, them advertising for your vote, not you carrying their water. Make them earn it. Don't give your heart away. This isn't like sports fandom where you pick your allegiance and then boost them hell or high water. This is going to a hardware store and selecting the right tool. Evaluate the entire selection and be willing to change your mind if a better fit comes to your attention.

With all due respect, I'll comment how I want to. You can be Mr. positive, I'm going for practicality/reality. Warren will be Hillary 2.0 in the rust belt.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

plus keep going on and on about helping the poor overlooks the very people that moved to tD (and also works to kill warren). the big mass middle there has nobody helping them. so at least when tD tells them he will keep the bad hombres down (while allowing the rich to keep gettin' on), the big mass middle has an ally at attached onto.

Huh? Why would anyone in the middle (politically or economically) give a rip about, "bad hombres"? Unless they buy into his hyperbole the vast, vast majority of Americans will never be impacted by illegal immigrants and they sure has hell are not on board with taxing the middle the pay for the rich. Perhaps I'm completely misreading what you're advancing here...

 

[Handyman]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

Yeah positivity would not have changed the last election. It isn't about speaking positively it is about getting in line after the rancor is gone. The GOP roped each other to shreds, but the second it was over they kissed the ring and voted.

I get what you are saying Kep...but if you think someone and rainbows is going to fix it you need to look again. We need to be honest and point out the negatives of the candidates in any way we feel comfortable.

We also need to just biw and follow after it is all said and done.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

With all due respect, I'll comment how I want to.

And with all due respect (which in your case is a lot), nobody's saying you can't. But I'd argue "Mr. Practical" intuits slicing each other up achieves little but make the enemy smile.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

Huh? Why would anyone in the middle (politically or economically) give a rip about, "bad hombres"? Unless they buy into his hyperbole the vast, vast majority of Americans will never be impacted by illegal immigrants and they sure has hell are not on board with taxing the middle the pay for the rich. Perhaps I'm completely misreading what you're advancing here...

A lot of racist people think they have a net negative impact on our society despite all evidence indicating otherwise. They actually believe that all of our economic problems are due to brown people (or as Reagan called them "welfare queens") and he just placated those preconceived notions with his rhetoric.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

Yeah positivity would not have changed the last election.

The last election is dead and buried. I'm not saying anything about that.

I'm asking us to be more respectful of our allies for the next two years because our differences are inconsequential compared to losing. But there are no Politeness Police and nobody's going to stop anybody who wants to behave differently.

 

[Handyman]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

I am going to speak honestly. If I don't like a candidate I am going to say why. Sugarcoating it won't change anything.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

I am going to speak honestly. If I don't like a candidate I am going to say why. Sugarcoating it won't change anything.

I'm not going to speak ill of any of the Democrats. That being said I am already resigned to voting for someone I'm not excited about in the least.

 

[mookie1995]

A lot of racist people think they have a net negative impact on our society despite all evidence indicating otherwise. They actually believe that all of our economic problems are due to brown people (or as Reagan called them "welfare queens") and he just placated those preconceived notions with his rhetoric.

A lot of people will react negatively to any group NOT THEM getting something that they don't.


What many with BHOCare failed to realize that making sure everyone had coverage raised the costs for people who already had coverage.
And yes, increasing those covered ups the total cost, but that is what it is.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

A lot of people will react negatively to any group NOT THEM getting something that they don't.

Like what, $250 worth of food stamps every month that can only be used on Chef Boyardi and Hamburger Helper? Man those people have it great!

What many with BHOCare failed to realize that making sure everyone had coverage raised the costs for people who already had coverage.
And yes, increasing those covered ups the total cost, but that is what it is.

Well barring the fact that BHOcare didn't actually raise costs that were already rising before it existed (and actually slowed the growth at which those costs were increasing) as has been explained to you 1000000000x now...

This is why we should just go with universal health care for everyone. It's simpler, it's better, everyone gets it. Or you know... we can just go with the Republican plan of going back to full privatization which clearly didn't work and was objectively worse.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

yes, universal is the answer. Have to nationalize insurance now though as well.

And if you D morons don't see the world for what it is, you can't be helped.
Mookie is trying.... but

You've never ever stood at market basket and seen people roll their eyes at what peeps buy on their food stamp card?? And that is in mass.
Great or not, it is what it is.

 

[mookie1995]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

The less you recognize who the voters are, the less your chance of getting them to support you.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

May I suggest, instead:

"I like Amy Klobuchar (or whoever) because she is able to deliver a warm, yet strongly liberal, message that resonates with people without putting large numbers of potential voters on the immediate defensive. I think she strikes a good balance between promoting solid progressive aims and inviting all well-intentioned people to the conversation by not being incendiary."

Again, valid perspective. But not IMO optimal.

We're both trying to get a D in the white house. I believe youre advocating an approach that is to be positive about each candidate...then when one becomes the nominee, they've got an extra tailwind because of strictly positive commentary.

Here's the issue with that. Sometimes the top candidate strengthens or weakens the image of the whole party. Trump is doing that with the GOP - which got whitewashed. I would argue that Warren if left to her own devices could hurt the whole Dem prospects including her own. Secondly, some candidates are unelectable Ds (IMO again inflammatory candidates or extreme ones). So its better to stop them before they win the nomination and doom us to 4 more years of Trump. The only way to do this is to ensure that folks understand both the upsides of some candidates and the downsides of others.

I don't think any D on this site appears so ingrained in their dislike of D candidates to flip against them in 2020.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

You've never ever stood at market basket and seen people roll their eyes at what peeps buy on their food stamp card?? And that is in mass.
Great or not, it is what it is.

Well we all know the real reason as to why they're rolling their eyes and they're probably part of the 33% anyhow.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

May I suggest, instead:

"I like Amy Klobuchar (or whoever) because she is able to deliver a warm, yet strongly liberal, message that resonates with people without putting large numbers of potential voters on the immediate defensive. I think she strikes a good balance between promoting solid progressive aims and inviting all well-intentioned people to the conversation by not being incendiary."

Well when your candidate is some middle of the road centrist who takes a ton of money from big oil, big pharm, or Wall St. and they have no real plans to make large scale fixes you're probably just gonna attack the other candidates who actually have more sincere ambitious plans and don't take money from the same donors.

 

[joecct]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

5min

Great idea, but centrists rarely vote in primaries. That has to change.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

I like O'Rourke, Booker, and Gillibrand because they probably won't raise my taxes just to give Associate's degrees to young potheads.

You're right Kep, this works!


/kidding