2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

[aparch]

If the WCHA would close up shop, I would have no issues with Tech going "back" to the CCHA 2.0 conference. Had certain teams discussed their plans in advance, the CCHA would still be here today. The CCHA was a victim of multiple unnecessary knee jerk reactions. If BGSU has the leverage get it going again by pulling in a couple AH teams, good for them. A six team WCHA and six team CCHA would be welcomed - 20 conference games every year with a balanced schedule. If you are concerned about not getting enough games, interlock the two leagues like the WCHA and Hockey East when they were getting started. Every team would see their own conference teams every season at home the opposing league's teams every other season at home. Or play 3 teams each year and see them at home every 4th season.

Next best option (for me), Tech joins AH and I'll go watch Tech at the AF Academy.
Ryan J

A reminder, IF BGSU restarts the CCHA, that leaves the WCHA with zero all Division 1 schools and no seat at the NCAA rules table.

 

[joecct]

A reminder, IF BGSU restarts the CCHA, that leaves the WCHA with zero all Division 1 schools and no seat at the NCAA rules table.

That's OK. The B1G has the throne-the rest of D1 has stools.

 

[JohnsonsJerseys]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

A reminder, IF BGSU restarts the CCHA, that leaves the WCHA with zero all Division 1 schools and no seat at the NCAA rules table.

That is true, however if the WCHA splits in half-ish again to restart the CCHA, the last thing anyone in the WCHA should be worried about that point is rule changes. They should be focused on trying figure out how long it would be before MSU applied to join the CCHA and leave the WCHA.
Ryan J

 

[Go___Tech_Gold]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

Honestly I don't recall at any time feeling bad that Tech wasn't in the NCHC or ever having a desire to be a part of that conference.

Do I resent it being formed and what it represents in the landscape of college hockey? Yes.
Did I ever or do I ever want Tech to be a part of it? No.

This includes consideration of the fact that being part of the NCHC would all but guarantee multiple Tech road games right in my backyard every season. Honestly I would rather fly to UAH than drive 15 miles across town to watch a game at DU.

Feel free to post a link to where I stated I wanted Tech to be a part of the NCHC if I have selective memory. I'm certainly willing to admit when I am wrong. I may be opinionated, but I'm pretty sure my opinion on the issue has been consistent.

Ryan J

NCHC might have been out to help the WCHA by staying at 8. Taking one of the best teams away, and having Alaskas fold leaves them at 7. Now WCHA will add ASU to be at 9.

Tech didn't get a single non conference game at home this year. So it needs the WCHA to be at around 10 members for it to survive it's the only dependable motivation for teams to visit Houghton.

Also NCHC and Big 10's formation only benefited Tech. Tech was stuck in the basement of the old WCHA as a team that couldn't compete with North Dakota, Denver, etc. Also had no conference members in Michigan.

Now they have in-state rivalries and visit downstate Michigan, which helps with recruiting. UM and MSU now have light conference schedules so have time to play Tech outside of the GLI. A weaker conference ensures Tech finishes at least the middle of the pack with lots of home wins, versus nearly all losses, which gets attendance and revenue up.

 

[Go___Tech_Gold]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

I don't know that teams are "content" with 14 home games, but I'm not entirely sure what the options are. We have an Alaska exemption, but our potential non-conference opponents don't. With our season ending a week early, but still including 28 conference games, it's hard to find time for games while getting any bye weeks in. Add in the geographic hardship for any ECAC, HE, or AH team to get to our arenas, and you have a recipe for very few home non-conference games.

Revenue-wise, as you note, "Going on the road is not how to get that done." But that applies to any potential opponents as well. If it's not a good financial move for us to go to Vermont, for instance, the same applies to Vermont coming out west. But when it comes to non-con games, those teams have other cost-effective options. A Vermont can get a deal with most of the ECAC or AH that minimizes travel costs for both schools. For us isolated out in the west, we can forego our Alaska exemption games, which many are doing, or try to find a team that's desperate for a couple games. Otherwise, we may have to take 2 for 1 deals.

WCHA teams can still play each other in an extra non conference series.

 

[aparch]

...
Tech didn't get a single non conference game at home this year. So it needs the WCHA to be at around 10 members for it to survive it's the only dependable motivation for teams to visit Houghton.

The scheduling of non-conference opponents falls on Tech's hockey staff for scheduling that mess. No reason for only fourteen home games. Blame that on Mel, and his opponents demands for 2-for-1 games versus MTU.

Also NCHC and Big 10's formation only benefited Tech. Tech was stuck in the basement of the old WCHA as a team that couldn't compete with North Dakota, Denver, etc. Also had no conference members in Michigan.

Now they have in-state rivalries and visit downstate Michigan, which helps with recruiting. UM and MSU now have light conference schedules so have time to play Tech outside of the GLI. A weaker conference ensures Tech finishes at least the middle of the pack with lots of home wins, versus nearly all losses, which gets attendance and revenue up.

I...

I have no words.

Tech wasn't "competitive" because there was no investment into the program and a revolving door of coaches that were as useful as a water cooler would have been behind the bench. (And some alums would argue the water cooler might have squeezed out a few more wins in the Russell era.)

Sure having Minnesota, Wisconsin, Duluth, North Dakota, Denver, Omaha, and St. Cloud instantly gives you a +7 improvement, but that doesn't turn you into an NCAA tournament team.

Mel has been the improvement, and his contacts have lead to playing Michigan for non-conference play. Let's see how long that hold though.

 

[Go___Tech_Gold]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

The scheduling of non-conference opponents falls on Tech's hockey staff for scheduling that mess. No reason for only fourteen home games. Blame that on Mel, and his opponents demands for 2-for-1 games versus MTU.


I...

I have no words.

Tech wasn't "competitive" because there was no investment into the program and a revolving door of coaches that were as useful as a water cooler would have been behind the bench. (And some alums would argue the water cooler might have squeezed out a few more wins in the Russell era.)

Sure having Minnesota, Wisconsin, Duluth, North Dakota, Denver, Omaha, and St. Cloud instantly gives you a +7 improvement, but that doesn't turn you into an NCAA tournament team.

Mel has been the improvement, and his contacts have lead to playing Michigan for non-conference play. Let's see how long that hold though.

I met with Watters right after the worst ever season to date (until UAH broke the record) and he told me attendance was down. I went to most games and the 4200 seat arena had probably 1200 on good nights. Nearly nobody I knew wanted to go to the games it was too embarrassing. One of my friends sent to USCHO writer Todd Milewski and he published "best part of any Tech game is when the pep band plays The Muppet Show, and the line comes on 'why do we always come here, I guess we'll never know. it's like some kind of torture, to have to watch the show".

Some team members came to his dorm room after reading it, his name was published, and said "do you think we like it? do you think we like losing??? why don't you just don't go??? are you scared now of us? huh???"

At the time I was advocating Tech move to the CCHA to at least be able to get some home wins, the whole WCHA was awesome except for us. It couldn't happen because of membership fees, and Tech's budget was only 600k. Omaha's by comparison was 1.1 million. Also Miami didn't want Tech back in the CCHA, but WCHA still wanted Tech even as a basement dweller, and staying in WCHA cost Tech zero. A team like that is still useful to the league to help a team get a hot streak going and build confidence which can lead to an NCAA run.

There's nothing to do in Houghton, even wins against CCHA basement dwellers would have caused the students and locals to show up to see it. Tech would have been better off in even College Hockey America than WCHA in those days. With ticket revenue they can built the program better, pay someone like Mel good money, get better players because the team actually is getting some wins, etc etc.

The non conference games with UM and MSU should last, the 3 programs are always GLI partners. Tech even joined the CCHA long ago under John MacInnis because he knew how critical it was for Tech's program to play against UM and MSU downstate to spread exposure, help recruiting, give alumni a chance to see the team, and donate, etc. That's why the 2 for 1 deal in Tech's case isn't particularly bad and might even be in Tech's favor to be downstate more often than in Houghton for the UM and MSU games.

 

[Go___Tech_Gold]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

That is true, however if the WCHA splits in half-ish again to restart the CCHA, the last thing anyone in the WCHA should be worried about that point is rule changes. They should be focused on trying figure out how long it would be before MSU applied to join the CCHA and leave the WCHA.
Ryan J

Why does anyone think that will happen? That's a lot of heavy lifting for BGSU to start a whole new conference. Owning the CCHA naming rights is worthless, a conference is about having a lot of intentioned member teams and a new name can be invented, look at NCHC. Why wouldn't they just work through the existing WCHA, the Alaskas are about to disappear and there will be openings for Robert Morris, Niagara, etc.

 

[uaafanblog]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

.... the Alaskas are about to disappear ...

Awesome 4th post!

 

[Go___Tech_Gold]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

Awesome 4th post!

Barely anyone lives in Alaska the programs can't profit or break even selling tickets so it's a big money pit. The reality has arrived. Other programs can.

There's the rainy day fund for the Universities that's in the billions but that's for academics. Growth of cars like Tesla mean the days of oil as king are over.

 

[jsmithe]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

Speaking of nothing we were just talking about, does anybody know when the league preseason polls start to come out?

 

[Bill]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

Barely anyone lives in Alaska the programs can't profit or break even selling tickets so it's a big money pit. The reality has arrived. Other programs can.

There's the rainy day fund for the Universities that's in the billions but that's for academics. Growth of cars like Tesla mean the days of oil as king are over.

Tesla is also bleeding money like a sieve. It's dependent upon government handouts for it's continued existence. It wouldn't be much of surprise to see it declare BK one of these days.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

Looks like JOHN SCOTT ROCKS has returned with a new alias.

 

[Go___Tech_Gold]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

Tesla is also bleeding money like a sieve. It's dependent upon government handouts for it's continued existence. It wouldn't be much of surprise to see it declare BK one of these days.

Nearly all the car companies have electrics now. The market grows every day. Not only is it lower cost, it's the only pollution solution for cities like LA and Beijing.

The Alaska programs were expensive entertainment for the Oil Kings, never sustainable. Reigns like that don't go on forever, technology changes too fast.

 

[JohnsonsJerseys]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

...the whole WCHA was awesome except for us.

Sorry but this sounds like something an NCHC fan would say. Did the WCHA have some good teams each season? Of course. But to say the league had 9 or 11 awesome teams every year isn't even close to true. Let's look at how many WCHA teams had an overall record of more than one game over 0.500 each season from 2000 until the league reshuffle:
2000-01 - 6/10 *
2001-02 - 4/10 *
2002-03 - 6/10
2003-04 - 7/10 *
2004-05 - 5/10 *
2005-06 - 6/10 *
2006-07 - 4/10 *
2007-08 - 6/10
2008-09 - 5/10 *
2009-10 - 6/10 *
2010-11 - 7/12 *
2011-12 - 5/12 *
2012-13 - 6/12
* MSU with a record of less than one game over 0.500

The perception that MSU is suddenly some kind of national powerhouse and would be some awesome "get" for the NCHC is also perception more than fact. They got a one year jump on Michigan Tech in their revival and they won a league title in year 2 of nWHCA edging out Tech by a single point. Thinking they are somehow heads and tails better than Tech at this point, well sorry the results show otherwise.
2012-13 MSU 4th(T), Tech 10th
2013-14 MSU 2nd, Tech 5th
2014-15 MSU 1st, Tech 2nd (one point back)
2015-16 Tech/MSU tied for 1st (Tech w/ better overall record)

...There's nothing to do in Houghton...

No offense if you're an alum, but I'm not sure if you have even been to Houghton making a statement like that...
Ryan J

 

[giwan]

Tesla is also bleeding money like a sieve. It's dependent upon government handouts for it's continued existence. It wouldn't be much of surprise to see it declare BK one of these days.

Tesla relies on MPG credits

 

[manurespreader]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

Nearly all the car companies have electrics now. The market grows every day. Not only is it lower cost, it's the only pollution solution for cities like LA and Beijing.

The Alaska programs were expensive entertainment for the Oil Kings, never sustainable. Reigns like that don't go on forever, technology changes too fast.

Are you sure you went to Tech, because you are acting well, more like a trump voter. You have your point of view and that's it.And I thought JJ was bad.

 

[Go___Tech_Gold]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

Sorry but this sounds like something an NCHC fan would say. Did the WCHA have some good teams each season? Of course. But to say the league had 9 or 11 awesome teams every year isn't even close to true. Let's look at how many WCHA teams had an overall record of more than one game over 0.500 each season from 2000 until the league reshuffle:
2000-01 - 6/10 *
2001-02 - 4/10 *
2002-03 - 6/10
2003-04 - 7/10 *
2004-05 - 5/10 *
2005-06 - 6/10 *
2006-07 - 4/10 *
2007-08 - 6/10
2008-09 - 5/10 *
2009-10 - 6/10 *
2010-11 - 7/12 *
2011-12 - 5/12 *
2012-13 - 6/12
* MSU with a record of less than one game over 0.500

The perception that MSU is suddenly some kind of national powerhouse and would be some awesome "get" for the NCHC is also perception more than fact. They got a one year jump on Michigan Tech in their revival and they won a league title in year 2 of nWHCA edging out Tech by a single point. Thinking they are somehow heads and tails better than Tech at this point, well sorry the results show otherwise.
2012-13 MSU 4th(T), Tech 10th
2013-14 MSU 2nd, Tech 5th
2014-15 MSU 1st, Tech 2nd (one point back)
2015-16 Tech/MSU tied for 1st (Tech w/ better overall record)

No offense if you're an alum, but I'm not sure if you have even been to Houghton making a statement like that...
Ryan J

Watters was late 90s do you want to analyze that time period.

Compared to most cities there is nothing to do in Houghton it's not literally true but hockey is the biggest regular event in town.

Tech would also be an awesome get for the NCHC. So would Ferris. Those 3 teams are now annual contenders to make the NCAA tournament.

Compare that to say, CC or WMU. At the NCHC founding it was declared that all schools were "like minded" to imply the others were stupid. But times change.

 

[Go___Tech_Gold]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

Are you sure you went to Tech, because you are acting well, more like a trump voter. You have your point of view and that's it.And I thought JJ was bad.

I rarely found any Democrats when I was a student there. Tech students tend to be smart people who would never do something as dumb as support Hillary.

 

[uaafanblog]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

Barely anyone lives in Alaska the programs can't profit or break even selling tickets so it's a big money pit.

The program had it's days when it sold out the joint night after night and year after year. So you don't know crap. And it's been 3 times more committed to playing college hockey than you're boring little boutique school for nerds. There's nothing that MTU offers that can't be found at a number of bigger and better Michigan schools. Michigan will figure that out one day and woe to Houghton when that happens.

There's the rainy day fund for the Universities that's in the billions but that's for academics.

It's a rainy day fund for the state dummy. Not for the Universities. Don't open your mouth about thing which you do not know.

Growth of cars like Tesla mean the days of oil as king are over.

Far from the case at this time mr. geopolitics. The facts are that oil's low price over the last couple of years is a direct result of manipulation by the major producer on behalf of the USA. It's passive aggressive nonsense to hurt Russia and other oil producers in the middle east whom the US dislikes ... but of course, the industry that has put a paltry 1 million vehicles on the road worldwide in a market of more than a billion is responsible for oil price drop. I'm guessing you actually went to MTU with that sort of effing ******** analysis.