2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

[gfmorris]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

Would you write in a specific termination fee starting with ASU of a much higher value? Part of the agreement to entrance along with other possible requirements? Apply to all? Anyone think the NCHC termination fee is the main reason some schools have not bolted already?

I don't know what the contracts are; I asked Schlossman but he only had the NCHC ones (probably because his sources are better). I'm fairly sure that a Freedom of Information Act request might get it from one of the public schools given that contracts binding upon a taxpayer-funded institution are generally public records. It might be advantageous to have a different fee for ASU (or anyone else who joins from this point forward), but then ASU might decide to reject that offer and play out one more year as an independent, hoping that the Alaska situation will have a clear resolution and the NCHC would re-consider expanding. Put more simply: you might not want to make a termination fee by ASU be $3MM just to keep them in your league if that fee is too bitter a pill to swallow.

The ASU situation is an interesting one from a contractual standpoint, because they clearly want to be a beachhead for Pac12 hockey. Do you give them a contract that specifies a low fee for them fulfilling the dream of Pac12 hockey but a higher one to keep them from joining another conference? Maybe. I quit having any say in negotiating contracts six years ago and really don't miss it that much.

GFM

 

[JohnsonsJerseys]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

NCHC... This is the Mavericks requesting membership....
<img height=150 src="https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/59480403.jpg">

 

[giwan]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

I don't know what the contracts are; I asked Schlossman but he only had the NCHC ones (probably because his sources are better). I'm fairly sure that a Freedom of Information Act request might get it from one of the public schools given that contracts binding upon a taxpayer-funded institution are generally public records. It might be advantageous to have a different fee for ASU (or anyone else who joins from this point forward), but then ASU might decide to reject that offer and play out one more year as an independent, hoping that the Alaska situation will have a clear resolution and the NCHC would re-consider expanding. Put more simply: you might not want to make a termination fee by ASU be $3MM just to keep them in your league if that fee is too bitter a pill to swallow. The ASU situation is an interesting one from a contractual standpoint, because they clearly want to be a beachhead for Pac12 hockey. Do you give them a contract that specifies a low fee for them fulfilling the dream of Pac12 hockey but a higher one to keep them from joining another conference? Maybe. I quit having any say in negotiating contracts six years ago and really don't miss it that much. GFM

Based on Schlossman the Alaska situation was not #1 or #2 reason for not expanding. Story to follow

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

Contracts matter, and conference membership is a contract. In a fair world, there absolutely shouldn't be a termination fee if the worst happens! But that's not guaranteed to be the way it would go down.

GFM

Try not to bring logic into his world, he might end up even more damaged.

 

[gfmorris]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

Based on Schlossman the Alaska situation was not #1 or #2 reason for not expanding. Story to follow

http://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/und-hockey/4105686-nchc-says-no-potential-league-expansion

I think that this is a prudent move for the NCHC. There are a lot of known unknowns that will be resolved in the next few months, and the timeline doesn't dictate a lightning solution. For all we know, Jim Johnsen will have a press conference in nine weeks starting with, "Lol, nope, athletics are cool in our system." That would be great.

Thinking on it more, Arizona State will probably wait, too, before trying to jump in with the WCHA. I don't think that they have to have a league home for next year and can probably wait. As discussed, joining a league makes it hard to leave; if they had the money for that, we wouldn't all be talking about "Poor Arizona State can't get a rink built so the NCHC will take them".

GFM

 

[manurespreader]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

http://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/und-hockey/4105686-nchc-says-no-potential-league-expansion

I think that this is a prudent move for the NCHC. There are a lot of known unknowns that will be resolved in the next few months, and the timeline doesn't dictate a lightning solution. For all we know, Jim Johnsen will have a press conference in nine weeks starting with, "Lol, nope, athletics are cool in our system." That would be great.

Thinking on it more, Arizona State will probably wait, too, before trying to jump in with the WCHA. I don't think that they have to have a league home for next year and can probably wait. As discussed, joining a league makes it hard to leave; if they had the money for that, we wouldn't all be talking about "Poor Arizona State can't get a rink built so the NCHC will take them".

GFM

If ASU had money they would not be holding the tournament in ***** Prescott.
I don't think that the NCHC has any confidence what so ever that ASU will get a rink in the time frame they say they will, or that once they do get one it will be acceptable.
They can BS the recruits, but money talks.

 

[uaafanblog]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

Try not to bring logic into his world, he might end up even more damaged.

Which of us in real life has seen the other person throw an effing hissy fit? Eh Dustin? Me seeing you throw a hissy fit is the answer ... a hours long hissy fit. You effing baby.

People here might not like what I have to say and especially the way I say it. None of that means there's something mentally wrong with me. But having met you twice, there's clearly something unhinged with you.

 

[BGFan]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

Would you rather have tOSU, WMU and Miami in your barn over ASU, BSU, and Mankato?

Rivalries sell tickets.

We've been playing OSU and Miami every year since realignment. Starting last year and moving forward we will also be playing WMU every year. We've been able to maintain those rivalries. Adding ASU, if it happens, won't hurt.

 

[LordofBrewtown]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

The ASU situation is an interesting one from a contractual standpoint, because they clearly want to be a beachhead for Pac12 hockey. Do you give them a contract that specifies a low fee for them fulfilling the dream of Pac12 hockey but a higher one to keep them from joining another conference? Maybe.
GFM

That's an interesting idea that would seem to make sense

 

[JohnsonsJerseys]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

http://www.grandforksherald.com/sports/und-hockey/4105686-nchc-says-no-potential-league-expansion

"This was more about the current membership feeling that we need to focus on us right now..."
NCHC teams only worried about themselves... shocker.
Ryan J

 

[St. Clown]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

"This was more about the current membership feeling that we need to focus on us right now..."
NCHC teams only worried about themselves... shocker.
Ryan J

Ryan J still can't get over his team not being asked out to the prom... shocker.
St. C

 

[giwan]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

"This was more about the current membership feeling that we need to focus on us right now..."
NCHC teams only worried about themselves... shocker.Ryan J

Translated as not ready to lower our PWR and there's no money coming from your rink?

 

[uaafanblog]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

Translated as not ready to lower our PWR and there's no money coming from your rink?

Cos CC's stellar 6-29-1 and WMU's fantastic 8-25-3 were awesome for your league's PWR ....

Okies ...

 

[JohnsonsJerseys]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

Ryan J still can't get over his team not being asked out to the prom... shocker.

Honestly I don't recall at any time feeling bad that Tech wasn't in the NCHC or ever having a desire to be a part of that conference.

Do I resent it being formed and what it represents in the landscape of college hockey? Yes.
Did I ever or do I ever want Tech to be a part of it? No.

This includes consideration of the fact that being part of the NCHC would all but guarantee multiple Tech road games right in my backyard every season. Honestly I would rather fly to UAH than drive 15 miles across town to watch a game at DU.

Feel free to post a link to where I stated I wanted Tech to be a part of the NCHC if I have selective memory. I'm certainly willing to admit when I am wrong. I may be opinionated, but I'm pretty sure my opinion on the issue has been consistent.

Ryan J

 

[giwan]

Honestly I don't recall at any time feeling bad that Tech wasn't in the NCHC or ever having a desire to be a part of that conference.

Do I resent it being formed and what it represents in the landscape of college hockey? Yes.
Did I ever or do I ever want Tech to be a part of it? No.

This includes consideration of the fact that being part of the NCHC would all but guarantee multiple Tech road games right in my backyard every season. Honestly I would rather fly to UAH than drive 15 miles across town to watch a game at DU.

Feel free to post a link to where I stated I wanted Tech to be a part of the NCHC if I have selective memory. I'm certainly willing to admit when I am wrong. I may be opinionated, but I'm pretty sure my opinion on the issue has been consistent.

Ryan J

Careful about never, as I can easily see a situation where the WCHA vanishes, the CCHA reappears and well you know....

 

[uaafanblog]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

Honestly I don't recall at any time feeling bad that Tech wasn't in the NCHC or ever having a desire to be a part of that conference.

It's such a great conference and has such a great fanbase that all their fans are in the WCHA thread here and their season conference thread is on page effing 3 and St. Cloud's thread is on page 4.

 

[Revs89]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

If ASU had money they would not be holding the tournament in ***** Prescott.
I don't think that the NCHC has any confidence what so ever that ASU will get a rink in the time frame they say they will, or that once they do get one it will be acceptable.
They can BS the recruits, but money talks.

Well money wasn't the reason they moved the tournament up to Prescott Valley. Prescott Valley had a minor league hockey team in town and its initial years, before ownership changed, would draw 4,000 plus a night. Also and more importantly, a club hockey game between NAU and ASU last year drew 3,500. There is an appetite for hockey in this area and many question the Coyotes moving the minor league team to Tucson and not to PV. Now, what you could question would be the dates. Dec. 30 and 31 will be a tough draw locally in that market place and may be more difficult for fans to travel north for the games.

As for the rink, there are internal working for a midsize arena for hockey, wrestling and volleyball. Lets hope those come to light soon. But I'm guessing it would look much like the arena in Prescott Valley when all is said and done. The one in PV broke ground on Aug. 23, 2005 and opened on Nov. 6, 2006 for a current price value of 42 million. So the time frame is certainly doable if all goes well with the Sun Devil Stadium renovation. That is now completing phase 2 of 3 of a 268 million remodel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prescott_Valley_Event_Center

And BS recruits? We don't need to do that. As was recently published in a Livability article, Tempe was voted the #1 college town to go along with being a top 100 city. We feel pretty good about what recruits will find here in Tempe.

http://www.livability.com/top-10/college/10-best-college-towns/2016/az/tempe

 

[JohnsonsJerseys]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

Careful about never, as I can easily see a situation where the WCHA vanishes, the CCHA reappears and well you know....

If the WCHA would close up shop, I would have no issues with Tech going "back" to the CCHA 2.0 conference. Had certain teams discussed their plans in advance, the CCHA would still be here today. The CCHA was a victim of multiple unnecessary knee jerk reactions. If BGSU has the leverage get it going again by pulling in a couple AH teams, good for them. A six team WCHA and six team CCHA would be welcomed - 20 conference games every year with a balanced schedule. If you are concerned about not getting enough games, interlock the two leagues like the WCHA and Hockey East when they were getting started. Every team would see their own conference teams every season at home the opposing league's teams every other season at home. Or play 3 teams each year and see them at home every 4th season.

Next best option (for me), Tech joins AH and I'll go watch Tech at the AF Academy.
Ryan J

 

[manurespreader]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

Well money wasn't the reason they moved the tournament up to Prescott Valley. Prescott Valley had a minor league hockey team in town and its initial years, before ownership changed, would draw 4,000 plus a night. Also and more importantly, a club hockey game between NAU and ASU last year drew 3,500. There is an appetite for hockey in this area and many question the Coyotes moving the minor league team to Tucson and not to PV. Now, what you could question would be the dates. Dec. 30 and 31 will be a tough draw locally in that market place and may be more difficult for fans to travel north for the games.

As for the rink, there are internal working for a midsize arena for hockey, wrestling and volleyball. Lets hope those come to light soon. But I'm guessing it would look much like the arena in Prescott Valley when all is said and done. The one in PV broke ground on Aug. 23, 2005 and opened on Nov. 6, 2006 for a current price value of 42 million. So the time frame is certainly doable if all goes well with the Sun Devil Stadium renovation. That is now completing phase 2 of 3 of a 268 million remodel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prescott_Valley_Event_Center

And BS recruits? We don't need to do that. As was recently published in a Livability article, Tempe was voted the #1 college town to go along with being a top 100 city. We feel pretty good about what recruits will find here in Tempe.

http://www.livability.com/top-10/college/10-best-college-towns/2016/az/tempe

Well ok, but... if you have those dates and you advertise the tournament and then you change the location... it's suspicious. No one is going to be driving up from Phoenix except the parents.

Second... you say to the NCHC you'll have an arena by 2018? No one believes you. That would be 2 years from next month.
Maybe the next year. Most of the hockey arena's built around the country take about two years after groundbreaking to complete. So 2019 would be much more realistic.And that gives you 6 months from now to have the plans finished and financing in place. Even that's wishful thinking.
Omaha's a mid size arena and it cost 81 million, and that was a couple of years ago. It took them roughly 32 months from announcement to completion. So 40 million? I'm no CE, but it seems pretty limited.
So.... if you are telling recruits... oh we'll have a brand new NHL arena or oh we'll have such and such buy then... well maybe, but maybe not. It's more likely they are going to be playing in a 750 seat community rink.

Next, none of the teams in college hockey that share an arena with someone else, like doing it. If you are sharing with the NHL they get the choice of dates and practice times, and locker rooms,.... everything. You get what they don't want. Also going to a college game in a huge rink with 2000 people in it, well it's not a great atmosphere.

It's nice that its livable. great news. well.... except in the summer, oh and don't go hiking in Mesa.

 

[Revs89]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

Well ok, but... if you have those dates and you advertise the tournament and then you change the location... it's suspicious. No one is going to be driving up from Phoenix except the parents.

Second... you say to the NCHC you'll have an arena by 2018? No one believes you. That would be 2 years from next month.
Maybe the next year. Most of the hockey arena's built around the country take about two years after groundbreaking to complete. So 2019 would be much more realistic.And that gives you 6 months from now to have the plans finished and financing in place. Even that's wishful thinking.
Omaha's a mid size arena and it cost 81 million, and that was a couple of years ago. It took them roughly 32 months from announcement to completion. So 40 million? I'm no CE, but it seems pretty limited.
So.... if you are telling recruits... oh we'll have a brand new NHL arena or oh we'll have such and such buy then... well maybe, but maybe not. It's more likely they are going to be playing in a 750 seat community rink.

Next, none of the teams in college hockey that share an arena with someone else, like doing it. If you are sharing with the NHL they get the choice of dates and practice times, and locker rooms,.... everything. You get what they don't want. Also going to a college game in a huge rink with 2000 people in it, well it's not a great atmosphere.

It's nice that its livable. great news. well.... except in the summer, oh and don't go hiking in Mesa.

I think the schedule that was posted was a lot of miscommunication. The plan from awhile back was to play at PV for the tournament, based in large part to the club game success there last year. In fact, there were other schools that even requested to play in the tournament. And you may be correct in that many won't drive up from Phoenix, but the move up there was to attract the ASU fans from those Northern communities. ASU largely has fans in the North part of the state, while UofA dominates the Southern part of the state. But the dates do make this a challenge for sure. I know my group will be making the drive up.

I don't know what they told the NCHC, but I was just pointing out a midsize arena can be built in that timeframe. GCU Arena in Phoenix for the school that went from D-II to D-I built a similar arena in 18 months. And I can tell you from being in both that building, and the one in PV, they are very nice. GCU's initial cost was 60 million and then another 20 million added on after year two when they decided to expand it to 7,000 from 5.000. It sounds like the NHL shared arena is off the table right now, thus the timeframe you are now hearing. The new NHL arena has been very quiet in this market with most hearing it has hit some snags. That arena which had a chance to be on ASUs campus is now targeted for Scottsdale, which would probably take ASU out of the equation. So if the plans are true for a 5,000ish type arena on campus, then then the timeframe would be possible based on other similar sizes buildings. As you have mentioned in other areas, the midsized arena would be best. Either way, construction is needed for anyone to believe it is going to happen. So hopefully they show that to the fans soon.

And having lived in a winter state for many years, I will take a few months of heat any day without question.