2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

[manurespreader]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

Geoff, I think it's more likely that the Alaska schools go down to 1 program rather than none, but good job.
Personally, they are going to start up an income tax in Alaska but not for two more years and once that's done maybe they will have enough funds to keep them both.? Have I got that right? Seems really dumb to ditch something in that way.

 

[TalonsUpPuckDown]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

I've done some noodling as to what a post-Mankato, post-Alaska conference might look like. Please note that I don't want this to happen. https://uahhockey.com/blog/2016/08/28/what-comes-next-will-some-come-west/

GFM

Enjoyed reading the analysis, but one thought kept coming back to me -- why would NU, RIT, and RMU want to trade the AHC for the WCHA? What arguments would be made that would compel them to make such a move? It works well for us (especially BG), but what's in it for them?

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

Enjoyed reading the analysis, but one thought kept coming back to me -- why would NU, RIT, and RMU want to trade the AHC for the WCHA? What arguments would be made that would compel them to make such a move? It works well for us (especially BG), but what's in it for them?

The ability to offer a full compliment of scholarships, like they (NU and RMU) could when they were in the CHA.

 

[UAHStatman]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

The ability to offer a full compliment of scholarships, like they (NU and RMU) could when they were in the CHA.

Somewhat better chance of being in a multi-NCAA bid league? Maybe? I don't know. Even without Minnesota State and the Alaskas, you'd be asking them to take a significant bump in their travel budget. NU/RMU/Canisius/Mercyhurst/RIT would have to think long and hard about such a decision. I wonder how much harder it would be to try and convince Western Michigan and Miami to switch instead.

 

[jdmaxim23]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

I've done some noodling as to what a post-Mankato, post-Alaska conference might look like. Please note that I don't want this to happen. https://uahhockey.com/blog/2016/08/28/what-comes-next-will-some-come-west/

GFM

Nice job, I think those are some pretty good ideas. I hope this time around the WCHA is a little more active and prepared with at least some ideas when everything starts to shift again.

One thought I had to add to that idea, is to me the most sensible (therefore would never happen) thing to happen is get WMU and Miami to come to the "new CCHA" and send BSU to the NCHC. This would put the "new CCHA' at 8 teams, and give them the possibility to add RMU and Niagra or any other far eastern teams to round out to a 10 team league with pretty decent travel partners.
MSU-M and BSU going to the NCHC in lieu of WMU and Miami keeps them at 8, and allows them to go after whatever other western team joins next alongside ASU.

 

[davyd83]

Somewhat better chance of being in a multi-NCAA bid league? Maybe? I don't know. Even without Minnesota State and the Alaskas, you'd be asking them to take a significant bump in their travel budget. NU/RMU/Canisius/Mercyhurst/RIT would have to think long and hard about such a decision. I wonder how much harder it would be to try and convince Western Michigan and Miami to switch instead.

WMU & Miami would have to pay exorbitant exit fees to the NCHC.

 

[aparch]

WMU & Miami would have to pay exorbitant exit fees to the NCHC.

Yep, the likes of which the WCHA or a new CCHA could never cover.


That's not to say that the NCHC wouldn't want to explore horse trading, but realistically, WMU and Miami can't leave.



I like the work you did GFM, one thing I saw was trying to offload the WCHA name/logo to the NCHC. They've done, begrudgingly, well at building their brand. And while the Golden Goose WCHA Final Five can never produce what she did, the NCHC has a strong alternative they're building.

 

[gfmorris]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

Somewhat better chance of being in a multi-NCAA bid league? Maybe? I don't know. Even without Minnesota State and the Alaskas, you'd be asking them to take a significant bump in their travel budget. NU/RMU/Canisius/Mercyhurst/RIT would have to think long and hard about such a decision. I wonder how much harder it would be to try and convince Western Michigan and Miami to switch instead.

I meant to do an analysis of mean distance of travel for those three teams and didn't get to it. I essentially picked three of the six westernmost AHC teams, knowing that Air Force will never leave Army and feeling that Mercyhurst and Canisius are less likely to leave. It's a bump to the travel budget, possibly, but these schools are pretty removed.

Let's look at the geographic midpoints. For each, I'll do the set of the seven WCHA schools in question, the other Atlantic Hockey teams[/url], and the subject school. Note that I'm subtracting all three subject schools and submitting them one by one. You can click the link to the left here and see what the WCHA schools and AHC schools look like less the three I suggested, or I can save you a click and tell you that it's on the MI-ON border.

http://www.geomidpoint.com/?ml=43.0...41.42114&cn=-88.02849&z=4&x=1&c=0&p=1&r=1&w=0


Add in Robert Morris and that midpoint hardly moves.

http://www.geomidpoint.com/?ml=42.9...45.16367&cn=277.54982&z=4&x=1&c=0&p=1&r=1&w=0

The same for Niagara.

http://www.geomidpoint.com/?ml=43.0...41.42114&cn=-88.02849&z=4&x=1&c=0&p=1&r=1&w=0

http://www.geomidpoint.com/?ml=43.0...41.42114&cn=-88.02849&z=4&x=1&c=0&p=1&r=1&w=0
The same for RIT.

Okay, so what's the big issue here? Let's take out Air Force, which is a flight for anybody, and UAH, which is a flight for most. Does that matter? Nope, it's still near Toronto, and that's the same no matter whether you sub in any of the schools.

http://www.geomidpoint.com/?ml=43.8...44.40016&cn=-83.06073&z=5&x=1&c=0&p=1&r=1&w=0

It's an exercise for the interested writer (i.e. me) to look at the last four seasons for each of the ten schools and see how much better this makes their travel. I think that all of the WCHA schools will be fine with it; Bemidji can pick up NC games with MN schools and NoDak, and UAH just lives this reality. But I can do a weighted miles traveled and do it that way, knowing that longer trips are flights, more expensive, etc. I can probably set up a cutoff point for that.

Any who ... the trade idea is nice but will never work, because I doubt that the leagues could ever agree on it, even if the current league named the WCHA traded the new league the old name and logo.

GFM

 

[gfmorris]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

Geoff, I think it's more likely that the Alaska schools go down to 1 program rather than none, but good job.
Personally, they are going to start up an income tax in Alaska but not for two more years and once that's done maybe they will have enough funds to keep them both.? Have I got that right? Seems really dumb to ditch something in that way.

When two of your three options involve dropping Division I sports at both schools, I think that it's easy to expect the worst. You're betting in that case that the NCAA will give you a shot at it, and frankly, how many big schools in any sport take advantage of the Alaska Exemption to make money on their own end? I just don't see that Alaska schools are that relevant to the NCAA to give them an unprecedented consortium role. I guess that it's possible that I'm being cynical.

GFM

 

[Suze]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

When two of your three options involve dropping Division I sports at both schools, I think that it's easy to expect the worst. You're betting in that case that the NCAA will give you a shot at it, and frankly, how many big schools in any sport take advantage of the Alaska Exemption to make money on their own end? I just don't see that Alaska schools are that relevant to the NCAA to give them an unprecedented consortium role. I guess that it's possible that I'm being cynical.

GFM

Obviously, the Alaska exemption only helps the schools that pack their arenas. From the WCHA games I watched online this past season, none of them appeared real full. In the old WCHA, schools like Minnesota, Wisconsin, and North Dakota made a lot of money off of those extra games.

 

[uaafanblog]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

Obviously, the Alaska exemption only helps the schools that pack their arenas. From the WCHA games I watched online this past season, none of them appeared real full. In the old WCHA, schools like Minnesota, Wisconsin, and North Dakota made a lot of money off of those extra games.

LOL. You're talking to a guy who's program only a couple of years ago was in dire budget-straits and who'd presumably have some small modicum of empathy. It's hilarious though that he seems to be reveling in the possible demise of two programs that have more than shown their dedication to the sport. UAA and UAF were in the past wholly committed to the sport and willing to spend nearly 2 million dollars each season. How many other programs do that? Certainly not backwater hillybilly Alabama hockey teams ... if their budget is 1M a year, I'd be surprised. Over the years, UAA and UAF saved dozens of programs big bucks on travel and plenty of schools made big bucks (millions over time) in cashing in on the exemptions. But you'll find few if any fans on this board with that recognition. People like this hillbilly math-whiz should stick to hillbilly things.

 

[davyd83]

LOL. You're talking to a guy who's program only a couple of years ago was in dire budget-straits and who'd presumably have some small modicum of empathy. It's hilarious though that he seems to be reveling in the possible demise of two programs that have more than shown their dedication to the sport. UAA and UAF were in the past wholly committed to the sport and willing to spend nearly 2 million dollars each season. How many other programs do that? Certainly not backwater hillybilly Alabama hockey teams ... if their budget is 1M a year, I'd be surprised. Over the years, UAA and UAF saved dozens of programs big bucks on travel and plenty of schools made big bucks (millions over time) in cashing in on the exemptions. But you'll find few if any fans on this board with that recognition. People like this hillbilly math-whiz should stick to hillbilly things.

Actually, they didn't save anyone a dime on travel in the current WCHA. Heck of a lot cheap to go the Bemidji or Ferris than Ancorage or Fairbanks, even with the stipend.

 

[davyd83]

LOL. You're talking to a guy who's program only a couple of years ago was in dire budget-straits and who'd presumably have some small modicum of empathy. It's hilarious though that he seems to be reveling in the possible demise of two programs that have more than shown their dedication to the sport. UAA and UAF were in the past wholly committed to the sport and willing to spend nearly 2 million dollars each season. How many other programs do that? Certainly not backwater hillybilly Alabama hockey teams ... if their budget is 1M a year, I'd be surprised. Over the years, UAA and UAF saved dozens of programs big bucks on travel and plenty of schools made big bucks (millions over time) in cashing in on the exemptions. But you'll find few if any fans on this board with that recognition. People like this hillbilly math-whiz should stick to hillbilly things.

Actually, they didn't save anyone a dime on travel in the current WCHA. Heck of a lot cheap to go the Bemidji or Ferris than Ancorage or Fairbanks, even with the stipend. And please, call me a T###. I would be honored to get that from someone who makes THE Donald look like a good guy. By the way, hope your health is improving. Would miss your pointed commentary!

 

[uaafanblog]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

Actually, they didn't save anyone a dime on travel in the current WCHA. Heck of a lot cheap to go the Bemidji or Ferris than Ancorage or Fairbanks, even with the stipend.

Cos buying every team 20 tickets doesn't save them on travel? I'm so effing sick of that nonsense. Of course they saved money. They didn't have to buy 20 tickets ffs. Are you really as dim in real life as you so often seem here? As you and everyone else is already aware, I'm not concerned with what people think of me here. In that vain, my admittedly spiteful wish to see the WCHA lose Kato and BG will leave me gleefully laughing if the state of Alaska is cheap enough to kill the hockey programs up there too. Y'all can just drop the W and call yourselves the CHA again with your six half-arsed schools who all moan and whine about spending money. Maybe if your schools were as committed to the sport as UAA and UAF have been you wouldn't end up like that.

 

[davyd83]

Cos buying every team 20 tickets doesn't save them on travel? I'm so effing sick of that nonsense. Of course they saved money. They didn't have to buy 20 tickets ffs. Are you really as dim in real life as you so often seem here? As you and everyone else is already aware, I'm not concerned with what people think of me here. In that vain, my admittedly spiteful wish to see the WCHA lose Kato and BG will leave me gleefully laughing if the state of Alaska is cheap enough to kill the hockey programs up there too. Y'all can just drop the W and call yourselves the CHA again with your six half-arsed schools who all moan and whine about spending money. Maybe if your schools were as committed to the sport as UAA and UAF have been you wouldn't end up like that.

If we don't go to Alaska, we don't spend a nickel on plane tickets. Except for Huntsville. And if it's really great for your teams to be in a league with Ferris, NMU, Tech & LSSU, why are your other sports not in the GLIAC? Oh, yeah, it would be expensive and not worth the travel. If you could find 4 other BC/ West Coast schools with hockey, you'd jump from the WCHA quicker than Fairbanks freezes in January.

 

[uaafanblog]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

If we don't go to Alaska, we don't spend a nickel on plane tickets. Except for Huntsville. And if it's really great for your teams to be in a league with Ferris, NMU, Tech & LSSU, why are your other sports not in the GLIAC? Oh, yeah, it would be expensive and not worth the travel. If you could find 4 other BC/ West Coast schools with hockey, you'd jump from the WCHA quicker than Fairbanks freezes in January.

UAA's always been willing to subsidize travel even on the D2 level which is where the rest of UAA's sports compete (except Gymnastics). They've long recognized the geographical challenge that coming to Alaska puts on outside teams. And you didn't have a choice to "not go" so saying we didn't save your team money is laughably dumb. The issue again is that your school (and others in the WCHA) are simply NOT COMMITTED to playing hockey at the D1 level. UAA and UAF were. What's NMU's hockey budget? Over 1M? I'd bet it's not.

Nevermind ... I looked it up. Your school spends 3.5M on all it's intercollegiate sports and the hockey budget is 630K. What a joke of a school.

 

[Squarebanks]

If we don't go to Alaska, we don't spend a nickel on plane tickets. Except for Huntsville. And if it's really great for your teams to be in a league with Ferris, NMU, Tech & LSSU, why are your other sports not in the GLIAC? Oh, yeah, it would be expensive and not worth the travel. If you could find 4 other BC/ West Coast schools with hockey, you'd jump from the WCHA quicker than Fairbanks freezes in January.

Just go ahead and say you want us gone.

 

[uaafanblog]

Re: 2016 WCHA Offseason; It's All Over, Save Ferris

Just go ahead and say you want us gone.

Of course he does. His school spends more on D2 football than it does on D1 hockey. That explains his constant whining about travel costs and travel time. They don't deserve to be playing D1 hockey and should fold their crappy program. They clearly aren't committed financially. Maybe if they wouldn't spend so much on ACHA club hockey they could afford to play D1. But if they dropped D1 they could be an ACHA club hockey powerhouse.

 

[davyd83]

Just go ahead and say you want us gone.

I want UAA and UAF to survive. They are both proud programs with great fans. To lose these programs would not be good for the WCHA or college hockey in general.

 

[RapidsCity]

UAA's always been willing to subsidize travel even on the D2 level which is where the rest of UAA's sports compete (except Gymnastics). They've long recognized the geographical challenge that coming to Alaska puts on outside teams. And you didn't have a choice to "not go" so saying we didn't save your team money is laughably dumb. The issue again is that your school (and others in the WCHA) are simply NOT COMMITTED to playing hockey at the D1 level. UAA and UAF were. What's NMU's hockey budget? Over 1M? I'd bet it's not.

Nevermind ... I looked it up. Your school spends 3.5M on all it's intercollegiate sports and the hockey budget is 630K. What a joke of a school.

Joke? The joke is that your school is the one that's 10 seconds from, to use your terminology, twats up. It's the Alaska schools that are on the verge of cutting their funding to $0. Even though our little school in the Soo does a horrible job at funding D-1 hockey, we will still have D-1 hockey. So thanks for the lecture on funding Mr Twat Waffle. No one wants to see your schools lose their programs. But you need the Midwestern schools far more than they need you. And if your school is so committed to hockey, why did they build an amazing new basketball arena and not a hockey facility and leave the hockey team at the biggest dump in college hockey?