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2014 NCAA Frozen Four: Minnesota vs. Wisconsin in Border Battle Semifinal

Re: 2014 NCAA Frozen Four: Minnesota vs. Wisconsin in Border Battle Semifinal

Wouldn't surprise me if BTN would pick it up if one of their schools made it. Maybe MI will mysteriously put it on the agenda when Red retires.

The BTN doesn't have access to the game; the NCAA sold the rights to all championships except basketball to ESPN. So unless ESPN decides to let the BTN show the games, for an exorbitant fee, it can't happen. And the chances of BTN wanting to cough up what ESPN would demand is approximately zero.
 
Re: 2014 NCAA Frozen Four: Minnesota vs. Wisconsin in Border Battle Semifinal

If the Gophers undefeated season last year wasn't enough to get the game picked up on TV, I don't know what it could take. It also seems to me that BTN at least made some effort to get the rights to show it, but they couldn't make the money work.

The annoying this is that at least the championship games were shown on tv (CBS College Sports) 4 or 5 years ago, and then lost coverage with the ESPN deal. That said, personally, about 95% of what I watch these days is off the internet, even sports, so I'm perfectly happy with a good webcast. The problem is the quality has also been lacking there too.
 
Re: 2014 NCAA Frozen Four: Minnesota vs. Wisconsin in Border Battle Semifinal

Agreed 1000%, especially coming off women's hockey being a huge story in the Olympics and men's college hockey all over CBS, Fox and NBC Sports all year. Even the freaking world university games (hockey) are on tv for cripes sake. I am shocked the NCAA doesn't have it's own channel yet for the "fringe" sports. Too bad the BTN couldn't/can't pick the game (s) up either.

It's a shame that the championship game isn't being carried but you've really got to consider that it's a niche market of a niche market. The "huge" story in the Olympics didn't get a lot of press outside of the hockey hotbed areas. On the men's side, take a look at the games that are being shown on the national networks. Half of the games NBC showed were of Notre Dame, undoubtedly tied in with their football contract. CBS had a contract with the NCHC, which I'd bet is a near-zero revenue contract for the league or they might even be paying for the exposure. That accounted for half of CBS's games. Even on the non-national level, Quinnipiac (the proclaimed mecca of hockey in another thread) pays to have a few of their games broadcast on NESN.

Then you have to look at the teams participating in the Frozen Four. You have two Big Ten teams that don't have a huge following outside their home state. Minnesota, in particular, is seen as an also-ran in the Big Ten in any other sport besides hockey. Wisconsin has a much better athletic program but they still don't have a huge national following. Then, you have a division II and division III play-up that most people couldn't even locate on a map. Heck, I live in New York and a lot of people I talk to don't even know where Clarkson is, much less that they have a hockey team. Even right in the center of the "niche", Clarkson rarely draws more than 100-150 for home games and I'd imagine Mercyhurst doesn't do much better.

Despite the fact that the TD Center is "sold out" this weekend, I doubt that many outside of the university even know that it's going on. I'd imagine once CCT, MC, and Wisconsin give back their team allotments, there will be plenty of empty seats. Heck, I've been following our women's team pretty closely for a couple of years now and I didn't even know the Frozen Four was going to be just 70 miles from my front door until a few weeks ago.

In order for ESPN to exercise it's right to broadcast a game, I'd assume they'd have to see some sort of benefit. Even when they broadcast the Division II and III football championships, there is some market because they're stuck in a period devoid of football and they will draw some viewers. Sports like LAX or women's soccer feature "brand name" schools in sports that are growing in the U.S. Even the D-III play-up in LAX is a much more recognizable name than Clarkson. Now, you put the NCAA women's frozen four up against the men's conference tournaments (further eliminating "niche" fans), there is really no market for these games.
 
Re: 2014 NCAA Frozen Four: Minnesota vs. Wisconsin in Border Battle Semifinal

It's a shame that the championship game isn't being carried but you've really got to consider that it's a niche market of a niche market. The "huge" story in the Olympics didn't get a lot of press outside of the hockey hotbed areas. On the men's side, take a look at the games that are being shown on the national networks. Half of the games NBC showed were of Notre Dame, undoubtedly tied in with their football contract. CBS had a contract with the NCHC, which I'd bet is a near-zero revenue contract for the league or they might even be paying for the exposure. That accounted for half of CBS's games. Even on the non-national level, Quinnipiac (the proclaimed mecca of hockey in another thread) pays to have a few of their games broadcast on NESN.

Then you have to look at the teams participating in the Frozen Four. You have two Big Ten teams that don't have a huge following outside their home state. Minnesota, in particular, is seen as an also-ran in the Big Ten in any other sport besides hockey. Wisconsin has a much better athletic program but they still don't have a huge national following. Then, you have a division II and division III play-up that most people couldn't even locate on a map. Heck, I live in New York and a lot of people I talk to don't even know where Clarkson is, much less that they have a hockey team. Even right in the center of the "niche", Clarkson rarely draws more than 100-150 for home games and I'd imagine Mercyhurst doesn't do much better.

Despite the fact that the TD Center is "sold out" this weekend, I doubt that many outside of the university even know that it's going on. I'd imagine once CCT, MC, and Wisconsin give back their team allotments, there will be plenty of empty seats. Heck, I've been following our women's team pretty closely for a couple of years now and I didn't even know the Frozen Four was going to be just 70 miles from my front door until a few weeks ago.

In order for ESPN to exercise it's right to broadcast a game, I'd assume they'd have to see some sort of benefit. Even when they broadcast the Division II and III football championships, there is some market because they're stuck in a period devoid of football and they will draw some viewers. Sports like LAX or women's soccer feature "brand name" schools in sports that are growing in the U.S. Even the D-III play-up in LAX is a much more recognizable name than Clarkson. Now, you put the NCAA women's frozen four up against the men's conference tournaments (further eliminating "niche" fans), there is really no market for these games.

Actually, for the 2012/2013 season, Minnesota finished 22nd in the Director Cup standings compared to Wisconsin finishing 29th. If your view of the athletic program is limited to FB and BB (Men's) then I would agree Wisconsin is better.
 
Re: 2014 NCAA Frozen Four: Minnesota vs. Wisconsin in Border Battle Semifinal

Minnesota, in particular, is seen as an also-ran in the Big Ten in any other sport besides hockey.

That may be how Minnesota is seen, but it isn't actually true unless, by "any other sport besides hockey" you mean, "football and basketball". The wrestling team just won the national duals title. Women's gymnastics just won the Big 10 for the second straight year; they finished in the top ten at the NCAAs last year. The softball team is currently 21-3 and ranked in the top 20 and I think can give Michigan a run for the conference title this year. The women's volleyball team is a perennial power. The men's golf team won a national championship as recently as 2003, which is pretty bizarre when you think about it. The women's swimming team just won the Big 10 again.

Wisconsin has a much better athletic program . . .

Wherever you are getting your information, it's simply wrong, unless, again, by "athletic program" you mean exclusively football and basketball. Minnesota and Wisconsin have an annual competition across all sports that's in its 10th year. Over the first nine, Minnesota was won five times and Wisconsin four. The Gophers crushed the Badgers 565-315 last year (each sport in which both schools compete is worth a total of 40 points split across all of the regular season meetings, or by the conference standings for sports that don't have head-to-head matchups) and Minnesota is ahead 460-180 through the winter sports season.

But, yeah, we suck at football and basketball. No argument there.
 
Re: 2014 NCAA Frozen Four: Minnesota vs. Wisconsin in Border Battle Semifinal

But, yeah, we suck at football and basketball. No argument there.

Yeah, I was referring to the things that sold t-shirts and gained national audiences. No disrespect intended to your other programs.
 
Now, you put the NCAA women's frozen four up against the men's conference tournaments (further eliminating "niche" fans), there is really no market for these games.
If we're talking about putting the game on ESPN itself, I'd agree. However, look at all the sports channels that are out there and look what many of them broadcast. The people that want to watch basketball are going to either be watching a live basketball game or watching a highlights show on on one of the big-time channels. But every little-watched sports channel will have some form of basketball-dominated programming that hardly anyone is watching. ESPN has all kinds of channels; stick a national-championship game on ESPN College, and if nobody watches it, nobody is watching what they are showing on there anyway.

I watch a lot of strange sports programming on a lot of different channels. Some of it, I didn't start out looking to watch, but just wound up there. If people liked the Olympic gold medal game, they'd have liked the UW vs UM national championship from two years ago. It had a little of everything. But if you never broadcast it, you don't know if it would gain an audience. Why buy rights to something and then sit on those rights like they are gold when you think they are worthless? What kind of business model is that? And a network like BTN should be trying to find some new programming, rather than show us "classic" Illinois and Indiana games from 25 years ago. The people that care about basketball are watching games that are happening live. I think you're holding women's hockey to a much higher standard than all of the unwatched crap that is already being broadcast around the clock.
 
Re: 2014 NCAA Frozen Four: Minnesota vs. Wisconsin in Border Battle Semifinal

If we're talking about putting the game on ESPN itself, I'd agree. However, look at all the sports channels that are out there and look what many of them broadcast. The people that want to watch basketball are going to either be watching a live basketball game or watching a highlights show on on one of the big-time channels. But every little-watched sports channel will have some form of basketball-dominated programming that hardly anyone is watching. ESPN has all kinds of channels; stick a national-championship game on ESPN College, and if nobody watches it, nobody is watching what they are showing on there anyway.

A quick look at ESPN's listings for Saturday at 3pm:

ESPN: NCAA Women's Basketball Tournament
ESPN2: NCAA Women's Basketball Tournament
ESPNU: NCAA Men's Lax … Maryland v. North Carolina
ESPNNEWS: SportsCenter

You're not supplanting any of that program for a women's hockey game.
 
Re: 2014 NCAA Frozen Four: Minnesota vs. Wisconsin in Border Battle Semifinal

A quick look at ESPN's listings for Saturday at 3pm:

ESPN: NCAA Women's Basketball Tournament
ESPN2: NCAA Women's Basketball Tournament
ESPNU: NCAA Men's Lax … Maryland v. North Carolina
ESPNNEWS: SportsCenter

You're not supplanting any of that program for a women's hockey game.

Who honestly watches lacrosse?
 
A quick look at ESPN's listings for Saturday at 3pm:

ESPN: NCAA Women's Basketball Tournament
ESPN2: NCAA Women's Basketball Tournament
ESPNU: NCAA Men's Lax … Maryland v. North Carolina
ESPNNEWS: SportsCenter

You're not supplanting any of that program for a women's hockey game.
I never said that they should broadcast practice for women's hockey, and that's all that is on Saturday. :D

Looking at Sunday, I see stuff like cheerleading and the NIT. The cheerleading is tape delay and they can show that whenever they want. The NIT -- does anybody who doesn't have a team in it watch the NIT? Does anybody who does have a team in it watch the early rounds of the NIT?
 
Re: 2014 NCAA Frozen Four: Minnesota vs. Wisconsin in Border Battle Semifinal

If your view of the athletic program is limited to FB and BB (Men's) then I would agree Wisconsin is better.

Wisconsin is good at a whole lot of stuff besides football and basketball, and hockey.

Men's cross country has a ridiculous streak of Big Ten championships - prior to getting beat this year, 14 straight championships and now 31 of the last 37, along with four (?) national championships with a bunch of other 'podium' finishes. Men's track just won the Big Ten Indoor championship second year in a row. In 2007, they became the first Big Ten school to win an NCAA track championship in something like 50 years. Women's volleyball made it to the national championship game this year. Softball won the Big Ten tournament in 2013 and went a few rounds into the NCAA tournament
 
Re: 2014 NCAA Frozen Four: Minnesota vs. Wisconsin in Border Battle Semifinal

Who honestly watches lacrosse?

A Maryland-NC LAX game will draw more watchers than any men's hockey game they show, except maybe the national title game.

And jeez, I should probably check my calendar. I would have been in Hamden Saturday afternoon with ticket in hand for no reason. :o
 
Re: 2014 NCAA Frozen Four: Minnesota vs. Wisconsin in Border Battle Semifinal

Who honestly watches lacrosse?

Did you know that there's now a Big Ten lacrosse conference, and championship, etc, men's and women's?

As in hockey, to get an automatic NCAA bid, you need to have six teams. So, when Maryland and Rutgers join Ohio St, Michigan and Penn St, the Big Ten will have five.

So who's the sixth team?

Johns Hopkins.

Seriously. Johns Hopkins is an 'affiliate' member of the Big Ten for lacrosse to get them up to six teams in the 'conference'.
 
Re: 2014 NCAA Frozen Four: Minnesota vs. Wisconsin in Border Battle Semifinal

Did you know that there's now a Big Ten lacrosse conference, and championship, etc, men's and women's?

As in hockey, to get an automatic NCAA bid, you need to have six teams. So, when Maryland and Rutgers join Ohio St, Michigan and Penn St, the Big Ten will have five.

So who's the sixth team?

Johns Hopkins.

Seriously. Johns Hopkins is an 'affiliate' member of the Big Ten for lacrosse to get them up to six teams in the 'conference'.

That still doesn't mean that people watch it :)
 
Re: 2014 NCAA Frozen Four: Minnesota vs. Wisconsin in Border Battle Semifinal

Who honestly watches lacrosse?

Who watches hockey?

I say that tongue-in-cheek, of course, but the first time I ever even considered college hockey was when I saw some ads on the Washington Capitals (I'm from the DC suburbs) website for the 2009 Frozen Four. I was already into hockey, but college hockey was off of my radar. I had seen Princeton's rink a few years prior, but even though I was into hockey, NCAA hockey was basically Narnia.

College lacrosse? You bet I was already familiar with that. I wasn't even much of a lacrosse fan at the time! (I've since made an effort to get into it, and I'm glad I have another sport I can follow and enjoy.) Maryland, Virginia, Johns Hopkins...I knew they were powers in the region. Just like there's a strong hockey community and following in the upper midwest, there are places with a strong lacrosse community. Its ceiling is lower than hockey's, but way more people are interested in a Maryland-UNC lacrosse game than any women's college hockey game.

Basically, Badgers/Gophers fans take for granted how many people show up for women's hockey, forgetting that "women's college hockey" raises approximately zero eyebrows across the country.
 
Re: 2014 NCAA Frozen Four: Minnesota vs. Wisconsin in Border Battle Semifinal

Women's basketball, women's volleyball, softball. It wasn't that long ago that nobody paid any attention to these sports either. You have to start somewhere. And if you can't put championship games on the tube, then the sport has zero chance of ever starting down the path that these other sports are already traveling. And I realize that there are many other sports in the same boat. However, hockey is one that can be nice packaged for television, and I think it has some long-term appeal, outside of something like biathlon or curling that needs nationalist pride or a blood relationship to make it much of a spectator sport.
 
Re: 2014 NCAA Frozen Four: Minnesota vs. Wisconsin in Border Battle Semifinal

ESPN has all kinds of channels; stick a national-championship game on ESPN College, and if nobody watches it, nobody is watching what they are showing on there anyway.

Last Friday the Gopher-Michigan men's game was moved to something called "ESPNews" when Fox Sports North and BTN were already committed to televising other events (Wild game and the Big Ten Conference basketball tourney, as I recall). I had never even heard of ESPNews, and was pretty sure that I didn't get it in my sports package. But, lo and behold, I found it after a somewhat lengthy search. I can only surmise how incredibly annoying it must have been for regular viewers of ESPNews to have their near 24/7 programming of "SportsCenter" interrupted by a live college hockey game! :rolleyes:
 
Re: 2014 NCAA Frozen Four: Minnesota vs. Wisconsin in Border Battle Semifinal

I'm pretty sure last year one of that things that was broadcast during the time the women's NC was being played was the college bowling national championships.

Which is to say that I have a hard time believing that market for women's hockey is any more "niche" than that is.

I don't care to look up the numbers, but the women's gold medal game (at 11 am on a weekday) had higher ratings than the US/Russia OT Men's game on Saturday am. I know that doesn't directly translate - obviously. But I just don't agree that there isn't a TV market.

It's a great sign that this FF is sold out (or at SRO). I made the mistake of clicking on the comments of a Wisconsin whockey post on FB and there were several people who couldn't understand why it was being held in such a small venue and commenting on how stupid that was. I refrained from jumping in with past attendance info, but I have to say that the advance sell out of a somewhat obscure (meaning not a big city) locale on the east coast is a great sign for the growth of the sport.
 
Re: 2014 NCAA Frozen Four: Minnesota vs. Wisconsin in Border Battle Semifinal

A Maryland-NC LAX game will draw more watchers than any men's hockey game they show, except maybe the national title game.

That's laughable! LAX is an airport and I'm not sure what lacrosse is but I know it's kinda like handball. Right?:confused:
 
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