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Some may call this arrogance, but I say it's refreshingly honest. I just wish your fanbase could take the next logical step and admit a shootout loss is a loss -- and therefore grounds for disappointment.
PGB -- thanks for the in-depth feedback.
It told me something about how the UMD program has regressed that the Bulldogs let a two-goal, third-period lead get away on home ice and settled for a tie, but still celebrated at the end like they'd won the conference crown.
The reason we disagree is mostly about perspective. If the goal of teams like Minnesota and UMD in the regular season was to get home ice for the WCHA quarters, perhaps we'd agree, but the primary goal is to do whatever is needed to get an at-large berth to the NCAAs. The second goal is to finish in the top four and get home ice for an NCAA quarter. Sure, there are other lesser goals like getting a WCHA regular season title or league playoff positioning, but I remember back to 2001 when the season title without an NCAA Tournament didn't feel very good. Once the regular season ends and the seedings are determined, the shootout results cease to exist. As soon as the time in OT ticks away, the game is a tie in the world of the NCAA. No shootout will change that. The Gophers will likely lose every shootout they have this year, because they don't have sufficient depth in quality of shooter attempts. They need to avoid ties, not because each one leads to a shootout, but because each counts as half a loss. That is the big problem with the ties, not the shootout shenanigans that follow.
Agreed. With every instance of ink they get in the Pioneer Press there is a pretty clear indication they're not paying actual attention, or making much of an honest effort to cover the team with a genuine degree of interest or even a professional degree of accuracy. Getting the venue wrong is bad. Something that could potentially cost the team a few fans in the stands.
Per this discussion elsewhere, Don't know if my memory is playing tricks...but seem to recall the younger sibling has also scored vs. a NCAA opponent.
The irony is I actually agree with your home run derby characterization. Be assured that if it were my decision alone, I'd drop the shootout from the rulebook. But it's also important to deal with reality. The shootout has been with us for years; it counts for points in the standings; and there's no indication it's going away anytime soon. Stick your head in the sand if you want. But being an ostrich is not a redeeming quality.
Again, as a traditionalist, I have a lot of sympathy for this line of reasoning. However...
...this sentence is simply false. While there's more than one way to display the Women's WCHA standings, any format has to take into account the number of points earned during shootouts, not just from games decided in regulation time. Perhaps the easiest format to work with has columns for both "SW" & "SL" -- meaning shootout wins and shootout losses. But even if space limitations prevent a complete display, that information is still implicit.KTDC said:
Of course you do. Unless you're a fan of Gopher Hockey and absolutely nothing else, you know what it's like to cheer for an underdog. And when your underdog pulls off a big upset, you take note of the favorite's reaction. The classiest ones tip their hats and move on. In the middle are those who excessively blame their own shortcomings, rather than giving the opponent credit. The worst are those who make whiney excuses and just try to pee on the parade. Most of the posts I'm commenting on are a variation on the middle category. A legitimate disagreement on the rules is employed as a means to avoid giving an opponent credit.KTDC said:
I have no quarrel with any of this. Good post.PGB -- thanks for the in-depth feedback.
I look at it this way... If someone were to tell me we'd go 3-0-1-0 in those four games, I'd be graciously content with that because the expectation/assumption is that the "lost" two points would have been to Wisconsin. And the way things played out is even more preferable in my mind; while I understand MBTC's POV because of the fact that the dropped points were to UMD -- a team that is not as likely to challenge for the league's regular season title -- the way things played out gives the Gophers effectively a 4-point buffer over Wisconsin to play with, trailing by 2 points but having 2 games-in-hand.
Now if the Gophers don't take care of business against UND, that's a different matter.
A sourpuss might say that Gopher Football's reaction to beating a weakened Michigan team was over the top, and that Minnesota should be embarrassed by being so easily impressed. The sourpuss would be wrong. A long drought was over, and Gopher Football had every right to celebrate the return of the Little Brown Jug.
I agree that vantage point makes a lot of difference; especially in terms of one's initial reaction. But what I'm really asking is for everyone in the conversation to take a second look and see the larger picture.ARM said:
I am sorry to see the WCHA Titles disparaged as lesser goals. My suspicion is that the comment stems from the fact the Gophers have recently been over-blessed in this department. Again, go beyond that initial home team reaction and see things from a league-wide perspective.ARM said:
True enough, but of little or no relevance IMHO. I doubt the necessary stats exist, but suppose we had alternate pairwise numbers that treated shootout results as full-fledged wins or losses. (Mind you, I'm not suggesting this be used in the actual selection process.) Looking back through the years, how many NCAA berths would be changed if the alternate stats were used? My honest guess would be zero. OK, I wouldn't be shocked if there were one or two. But to me, those would simply be exceptions that proved the general rule. Given the small number of schools genuinely on the bubble in any given year, coupled with the tendency for shootout wins & losses to cancel each other out for most teams, different results would be rare.ARM said:
Then deal with the reality of the agreed upon rules, and put in the work needed to get better at shootouts.ARM said:
I certainly agree with you that ties are a problem for a national contender, regardless of the shootout results. But can't you see that, in context, this actually supports my position? In general, the Gopher fanbase argues that since all shootouts are ties for NCAA purposes, the underdog has accomplished nothing. No harm done to us favorites, thank you very much. The truth is that just by taking the game to a shootout, a ding to the favorite's record -- an accomplishment by the underdog -- has already occurred. The fact that underdogs will only celebrate if the shootout is won doesn't somehow erase the ding to the favorite's record.ARM said:
I was a little puzzled at a couple of the shooters Minnesota sent out in that shootout vs. UMD.