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2013 "I was screwed by the NCAA" thread...

Re: 2013 "I was screwed by the NCAA" thread...

The annual argument is here, and it's sounding more and more like a waste of time to discuss it.

It's all about the AQ-situation in D-3, and it always has been... At least 2 unworthy teams have been awarded berths this year (maybe more), and that's why Hobart is staying home. The field is far too small to award AQs to mediocre teams, clearly, if the NCAA aspires to be "fair".

(Some posters here state that a true champion must win it's silly little conference-tournament to validate it's entire season, then they change their tune when that doesn't happen... That's not worth mentioning, really, but I couldn't help myself.)

If the field was chosen on merit alone, and in some equitable manner, UMD and Wentworth would be teeing them up about now, and Hobart would be practicing for an upcoming game... Platty, Babson, Bowdoin and Neumann would've been the finalists for the last few berths, IMO.
 
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Re: 2013 "I was screwed by the NCAA" thread...

Fishman'81 said:
The annual argument is here, and it's sounding more and more like a waste of time to discuss it.

It's all about the AQ-situation in D-3, and it always has been... At least 2 unworthy teams have been awarded berths this year (maybe more), and that's why Hobart is staying home. The field is far too small to award AQs to mediocre teams, clearly, if the NCAA aspires to be "fair".

(Some posters here state that a true champion must win it's silly little conference-tournament to validate it's entire season, then they change their tune when that doesn't happen... That's not worth mentioning, really, but I couldn't help myself.)

If the field was chosen on merit alone, and in some equitable manner, UMD and Wentworth would be teeing them up about now, and Hobart would be practicing for an upcoming game... Platty, Babson, Bowdoin and Neumann would've been the finalists for the last few berths, IMO.
Click to expand...

It appears the fishman is no fan of ...
 
Re: 2013 "I was screwed by the NCAA" thread...

Question How many Division 1 teams are there and how many make the NCAA?
 
Re: 2013 "I was screwed by the NCAA" thread...

Fishman'81 said:
The annual argument is here, and it's sounding more and more like a waste of time to discuss it.

It's all about the AQ-situation in D-3, and it always has been... At least 2 unworthy teams have been awarded berths this year (maybe more), and that's why Hobart is staying home. The field is far too small to award AQs to mediocre teams, clearly, if the NCAA aspires to be "fair".

(Some posters here state that a true champion must win it's silly little conference-tournament to validate it's entire season, then they change their tune when that doesn't happen... That's not worth mentioning, really, but I couldn't help myself.)

If the field was chosen on merit alone, and in some equitable manner, UMD and Wentworth would be teeing them up about now, and Hobart would be practicing for an upcoming game... Platty, Babson, Bowdoin and Neumann would've been the finalists for the last few berths, IMO.
Click to expand...


Fish you are definitely a "unique" poster but what you said here is "spot on".
 
Re: 2013 "I was screwed by the NCAA" thread...

d3newbie said:
The motivation would come from schools at the bottom of SUNYAC glady moving to another NY conf that now has an automatic bid and less schools to compete with. If no schools choose to join then they concede to letting ECAC-W gain auto-bid with less schools until somone jumps.

Yes hopefully Canton is the answer to ending the ongoing drama with ECAC-W tourament bid. Hopefully they do not end up going to SUNYAC as a SUNY school???

That said, hard to understand how NCAA would not try and improve on what has happened with ECAC-W.
Click to expand...

The SUNYAC is an all or nothing league. You pull one sport out of the SUNYAC, you have to pull your entire school out of the SUNYAC. That's the way the by-laws are written, and they are not going to change them. The schools currently in the SUNYAC are never going to do that.

The NCAA has no control whatsoever over the conferences. Nor should they.

Nobody should concede anything. The rules are very simple. 7 schools or no AQ.
 
Re: 2013 "I was screwed by the NCAA" thread...

d3newbie said:
What's to stop? This is a blog and we are all speculating hacks.

Your argument about D1 is silly, D3 does not have the TV markets to consider or any other comparison to D1 basketball, football, or hockey. NCAA makes their rules and could just as easily implement any kind of change to support healthy collegiate atheltic competition for schools that are putting forth the expense to field teams. Will they? probably not, but dont be so arrogant to state things as fact that you have no way of backing up. What you state as fact about the NCAAs motivation and reach is pure speculation and babble.
Click to expand...

They are not speculation or babble. They are fact.

You need a lesson on the NCAA, my friend.

Way back in the beginning of time, President Teddy Roosevelt threatened to outlaw football because of the number of deaths occurring on the field. Back then, the only game being played was at the collegiate level. There was no pro game.

So, the presidents of the schools got together to form an organization which would set standard rules, oversee those rules, and run the sport, making the sport safer to appease the President. This organization was called the NCAA. It was set up with the president of the schools overseeing the NCAA, like a Board of Directors oversees the running of a company.

Flash forward to today. The NCAA is still set up in this way. The president of the NCAA (i.e., a CEO of a company) has to answer to the board of college presidents (i.e., a board of directors at a company). Many sports conferences are also set up this way, where the commissioner answers to a board of ADs who ultimately answer to the presidents of the member institutions. The major rules and policy changes in the NCAA are voted on by the presidents of the schools. The NCAA cannot enact them on their own.

As a good example, consider the Penn State situation someone brought up. It just so happened that the summer before the Penn State scandal broke, the presidents of the D1 schools were getting tired of how much they felt their own sports programs were getting out of hand. Sort of the tail wagging the dog situation. So, they had a pow-wow retreat with the NCAA, and declared they wanted the NCAA to get a lot tougher with schools that had runaway sports programs. Again, this dictate was mandated by those who really run the NCAA -- the college presidents. It was this mandate which the NCAA felt gave them the power to punish Penn State the way they did (right or wrong, that's a debate for another time).

Any power or lack of power the NCAA has is dictated by the president of the schools. And one thing the presidents of the schools do NOT want the NCAA to get involved in is the make up of conferences. The make up of conferences is something the schools want to control, because many times they want to form conferences with like minded schools, whether that be state schools (like the SUNYAC) or private prep schools (like NESCAC) or big Midwestern institutions (like Big 10), or historical brianiac schools (like Ivy League) or schools which don't hold sports at a high level (like NEAC), etc.

The presidents themselves often have a big say, sometimes the only say, in how these conferences are set up and/or which conference their schools will participate in. The formation of the UAA is a perfect example of a conference initiated and set up specifically by the school presidents themselves.

So, in conclusion, it is an absolute fact that the NCAA has no jurisdiction whatsoever in determining which schools play in which conferences. The school presidents themselves set up the NCAA exactly that way, to not interfare with where they play. Do you think the president of Harvard will allow the NCAA to tell them they cannot play in the Ivy League? Do you think the president of Middlebury will allow the NCAA to tell them they cannot play in the NESCAC? Do you even think the president of Potsdam will allow the NCAA to tell them they cannot play in the SUNYAC?

This is all fact. No babble. No speculation.
 
Re: 2013 "I was screwed by the NCAA" thread...

Russell Jaslow said:
They are not speculation or babble. They are fact.

You need a lesson on the NCAA, my friend.

Way back in the beginning of time, President Teddy Roosevelt threatened to outlaw football because of the number of deaths occurring on the field. Back then, the only game being played was at the collegiate level. There was no pro game.

So, the presidents of the schools got together to form an organization which would set standard rules, oversee those rules, and run the sport, making the sport safer to appease the President. This organization was called the NCAA. It was set up with the president of the schools overseeing the NCAA, like a Board of Directors oversees the running of a company.

Flash forward to today. The NCAA is still set up in this way. The president of the NCAA (i.e., a CEO of a company) has to answer to the board of college presidents (i.e., a board of directors at a company). Many sports conferences are also set up this way, where the commissioner answers to a board of ADs who ultimately answer to the presidents of the member institutions. The major rules and policy changes in the NCAA are voted on by the presidents of the schools. The NCAA cannot enact them on their own.

As a good example, consider the Penn State situation someone brought up. It just so happened that the summer before the Penn State scandal broke, the presidents of the D1 schools were getting tired of how much they felt their own sports programs were getting out of hand. Sort of the tail wagging the dog situation. So, they had a pow-wow retreat with the NCAA, and declared they wanted the NCAA to get a lot tougher with schools that had runaway sports programs. Again, this dictate was mandated by those who really run the NCAA -- the college presidents. It was this mandate which the NCAA felt gave them the power to punish Penn State the way they did (right or wrong, that's a debate for another time).

Any power or lack of power the NCAA has is dictated by the president of the schools. And one thing the presidents of the schools do NOT want the NCAA to get involved in is the make up of conferences. The make up of conferences is something the schools want to control, because many times they want to form conferences with like minded schools, whether that be state schools (like the SUNYAC) or private prep schools (like NESCAC) or big Midwestern institutions (like Big 10), or historical brianiac schools (like Ivy League) or schools which don't hold sports at a high level (like NEAC), etc.

The presidents themselves often have a big say, sometimes the only say, in how these conferences are set up and/or which conference their schools will participate in. The formation of the UAA is a perfect example of a conference initiated and set up specifically by the school presidents themselves.

So, in conclusion, it is an absolute fact that the NCAA has no jurisdiction whatsoever in determining which schools play in which conferences. The school presidents themselves set up the NCAA exactly that way, to not interfare with where they play. Do you think the president of Harvard will allow the NCAA to tell them they cannot play in the Ivy League? Do you think the president of Middlebury will allow the NCAA to tell them they cannot play in the NESCAC? Do you even think the president of Potsdam will allow the NCAA to tell them they cannot play in the SUNYAC?

This is all fact. No babble. No speculation.
Click to expand...

+10000000000
 
Re: 2013 "I was screwed by the NCAA" thread...

LakerFan99 said:
I may be wrong, but I believe the way the NC$$ calculates how many teams go to the tournament is different in D1 than it is in D3.
Click to expand...

That is correct. I don't know if wickfan was merely stating a fact or trying to make a point. :-)

D1, D2, and D3 all have different motives and goals. D1 does not have an overall rule for all sports like D3. D1 rules are tweaked sport by sport, a lot of which is dictated by money. The D1 hockey tournament makes money, so they had no problem getting approval to expand from 12 to 16 teams, even though they didn't have the total number of teams to support it based on the general D1 rules.
 
Re: 2013 "I was screwed by the NCAA" thread...

Russell Jaslow said:
They are not speculation or babble. They are fact.

You need a lesson on the NCAA, my friend.

Way back in the beginning of time, President Teddy Roosevelt threatened to outlaw football because of the number of deaths occurring on the field. Back then, the only game being played was at the collegiate level. There was no pro game.

So, the presidents of the schools got together to form an organization which would set standard rules, oversee those rules, and run the sport, making the sport safer to appease the President. This organization was called the NCAA. It was set up with the president of the schools overseeing the NCAA, like a Board of Directors oversees the running of a company.

Flash forward to today. The NCAA is still set up in this way. The president of the NCAA (i.e., a CEO of a company) has to answer to the board of college presidents (i.e., a board of directors at a company). Many sports conferences are also set up this way, where the commissioner answers to a board of ADs who ultimately answer to the presidents of the member institutions. The major rules and policy changes in the NCAA are voted on by the presidents of the schools. The NCAA cannot enact them on their own.

As a good example, consider the Penn State situation someone brought up. It just so happened that the summer before the Penn State scandal broke, the presidents of the D1 schools were getting tired of how much they felt their own sports programs were getting out of hand. Sort of the tail wagging the dog situation. So, they had a pow-wow retreat with the NCAA, and declared they wanted the NCAA to get a lot tougher with schools that had runaway sports programs. Again, this dictate was mandated by those who really run the NCAA -- the college presidents. It was this mandate which the NCAA felt gave them the power to punish Penn State the way they did (right or wrong, that's a debate for another time).

Any power or lack of power the NCAA has is dictated by the president of the schools. And one thing the presidents of the schools do NOT want the NCAA to get involved in is the make up of conferences. The make up of conferences is something the schools want to control, because many times they want to form conferences with like minded schools, whether that be state schools (like the SUNYAC) or private prep schools (like NESCAC) or big Midwestern institutions (like Big 10), or historical brianiac schools (like Ivy League) or schools which don't hold sports at a high level (like NEAC), etc.

The presidents themselves often have a big say, sometimes the only say, in how these conferences are set up and/or which conference their schools will participate in. The formation of the UAA is a perfect example of a conference initiated and set up specifically by the school presidents themselves.

So, in conclusion, it is an absolute fact that the NCAA has no jurisdiction whatsoever in determining which schools play in which conferences. The school presidents themselves set up the NCAA exactly that way, to not interfare with where they play. Do you think the president of Harvard will allow the NCAA to tell them they cannot play in the Ivy League? Do you think the president of Middlebury will allow the NCAA to tell them they cannot play in the NESCAC? Do you even think the president of Potsdam will allow the NCAA to tell them they cannot play in the SUNYAC?

This is all fact. No babble. No speculation.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the history lesson. I certainly don't have much faith in seeing any improvments, primarily because of the broader (all or nothing) impact to athletic programs at each school. Although, even your description eludes to the fact that the NCAA is the governing body and does implement rules at some levels, including these crazy Pool A,B,C rules. The comparison to D1 is a stretch at best.
 
Re: 2013 "I was screwed by the NCAA" thread...

man I have read so many of these post my head is spinnnnnning:eek:.....win and your in.........but I do think more teams should get a chance in the dream of a National Championship..ok done.... as you were
 
bakdraft21 said:
man I have read so many of these post my head is spinnnnnning:eek:.....win and your in.........but I do think more teams should get a chance in the dream of a National Championship..ok done.... as you were
Click to expand...

At the beginning of the season, all teams have a chance at that dream...
 
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