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2013-14 Season predictions - the crystal bawl awards!!

Re: 2013-14 Season predictions - the crystal bawl awards!!

altazo said:
Between the top 10-15 D1 programs and D3, yes, I'd agree. But I honestly think schools like Norwich, Plattsburgh, SNC, Oswego, Adrain, and Utica would be right around .500 in Atlantic Hockey right now.
Click to expand...

Several years ago I would have agreed with you, but right now, D-1 has talent from top to bottom. It's not like the old days, when there were two or three tiers, and programs like last-year's D-1 runner-up Quinnipiac were de-facto D-3 teams.

As far as the direct comparisons go, there aren't really any, but watch how the US-Under 18 team hammers a good D-3 team on a given night, then goes on to be buried by a very pedestrian D-1 team a night or two later... Additionally, one could consider how dominant a good many D-1 transfers are at the D-3 level, when they shined the pine at their mediocre D-1 schools. (Which, of course, was why they transferred to D-3 in the first place: for the ice-time.)

I've done a (very) little research lately regarding the DOBs of D-3 guys, and it seems that the most successful teams are often stocked with overage players who went un-drafted... And, if you're un-drafted at age 23-26, there's probably a good reason for it.

My theory is that the scouting has gotten so much more efficient at both levels that guys generally land where they belong, and the proof is in the pudding: D-3 guys almost never ascend to an NHL job, while that league is loaded with D-1 players, some of them among the best in the league... I'll even go so far as to predict that if my beloved Utica team -which I expect to contend for an D-3 NC this year, if they stay healthy- would likely go winless in Hockey East.

The D-1/D-3 comparison seems to be between apples and oranges these days, IMO.
 
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Re: 2013-14 Season predictions - the crystal bawl awards!!

Actually, the U-18 comparison is just the opposite. They've beaten both Michigan and Michigan State, and I think BC, over the past 5 years or so. I want to say that they've taken down Minnesota, but I'm not certain. Adrian is 3-1 against the same program, with the loss coming in a shootout in Ann Arbor. I would say with confidence that Norwich, Plattsburgh, Oswego, SNC and a couple others would have similar records, if given the opportunity.
 
Re: 2013-14 Season predictions - the crystal bawl awards!!

Hammer said:
Actually, the U-18 comparison is just the opposite. They've beaten both Michigan and Michigan State, and I think BC, over the past 5 years or so. I want to say that they've taken down Minnesota, but I'm not certain. Adrian is 3-1 against the same program, with the loss coming in a shootout in Ann Arbor. I would say with confidence that Norwich, Plattsburgh, Oswego, SNC and a couple others would have similar records, if given the opportunity.
Click to expand...

Oswego played the U-18 team while I was a senior in college and it was one of the best games I've ever seen.

U-18 team won 4-3 in overtime. Cam Fowler ended up winning it. Atleast five of the guys from that team are now playing in the NHL or the AHL.
 
Re: 2013-14 Season predictions - the crystal bawl awards!!

PrezdeJohnson09 said:
Oswego played the U-18 team while I was a senior in college and it was one of the best games I've ever seen.

U-18 team won 4-3 in overtime. Cam Fowler ended up winning it. Atleast five of the guys from that team are now playing in the NHL or the AHL.
Click to expand...
Wisconsin played the 1984 US Olympic hockey team when I was there. One of the best games I've ever seen. Wisconsin won that game. It was electric, especially after the buzzer went off and the capacity (about 8500 +/-) went from wild cheering for UW to a chant of USA, USA!
 
Re: 2013-14 Season predictions - the crystal bawl awards!!

HERE, HERE , HERE , HERE , HERE

While Morisville got blown out (still would have liked to see what it would have been had Relcof played 60 minutes), several DIII teams beat Morisville by 6 and 7 runs.

Yes Norwich lost both games against Dartmouth, would have been something had Parker not given up 3 goals in the first 7 minutes of the game however.

And in short, Princeton and Dartmouth are a much tougher competition then most of the AHA.
 
Re: 2013-14 Season predictions - the crystal bawl awards!!

PrezdeJohnson09 said:
Oswego played the U-18 team while I was a senior in college and it was one of the best games I've ever seen.

U-18 team won 4-3 in overtime. Cam Fowler ended up winning it. Atleast five of the guys from that team are now playing in the NHL or the AHL.
Click to expand...
Not sure but Oswego usually plays the U-18 team as an exhibition game as well, their 1st game of the yr when the U-18 team already has several games in the bag come that time of year........I could also list a few D1 transfers for Oswego who have not been to " Dominant".
 
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Re: 2013-14 Season predictions - the crystal bawl awards!!

Fishman'81 said:
Several years ago I would have agreed with you, but right now, D-1 has talent from top to bottom. It's not like the old days, when there were two or three tiers, and programs like last-year's D-1 runner-up Quinnipiac were de-facto D-3 teams.

As far as the direct comparisons go, there aren't really any, but watch how the US-Under 18 team hammers a good D-3 team on a given night, then goes on to be buried by a very pedestrian D-1 team a night or two later... Additionally, one could consider how dominant a good many D-1 transfers are at the D-3 level, when they shined the pine at their mediocre D-1 schools. (Which, of course, was why they transferred to D-3 in the first place: for the ice-time.)

I've done a (very) little research lately regarding the DOBs of D-3 guys, and it seems that the most successful teams are often stocked with overage players who went un-drafted... And, if you're un-drafted at age 23-26, there's probably a good reason for it.

My theory is that the scouting has gotten so much more efficient at both levels that guys generally land where they belong, and the proof is in the pudding: D-3 guys almost never ascend to an NHL job, while that league is loaded with D-1 players, some of them among the best in the league... I'll even go so far as to predict that if my beloved Utica team -which I expect to contend for an D-3 NC this year, if they stay healthy- would likely go winless in Hockey East.

The D-1/D-3 comparison seems to be between apples and oranges these days, IMO.
Click to expand...

I would never go so far as to say D3 is completely up to par with D1 hockey, but looking at some of the USNTDP U-18 games from 2012-13 I would say that you don't have enough of a sample to discount D3's ineptitude. USNTDP only played five D3 teams last season (Oswego, St. Thomas, St. Mary's, MSOE and Wisc Superior). They won all five of those games, but what is interesting is that Oswego's loss (0-2) was no worse than Michigan State (0-3), Penn State (0-3), or UNO (2-3). Yes, St. Mary's, who finished next to last in the MIAC, had no answer defensively against USNTDP, but they did manage to score more goals (4) against USNTDP than did Notre Dame (1), Minnesota (2), Merrimac (1), New Hampshire (2), Michigan (3), Michigan State (3) or Alabama Huntsville (2, 1). USNTDP faced all of the top D1 programs; however, with the exception of Oswego, really didn't play the tougher D3 programs. I really believe the upper echelon of D3 teams can fair well against D1 competition...meaning they won't get embarrassed as some may think.
 
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Re: 2013-14 Season predictions - the crystal bawl awards!!

Heck, back in the day Plattsburgh would throttle some good DI teams. I'm talking putting up an 11 spot on Colgate and a 14 spot on Notre Dame. I recall victories over UVM, Colgate, an excellent Clarkson team and tying UNH. That's just off the top of my head. Nowadays with so many more DI and DIII teams, it's a whole different game. Sure, Plattsburgh took a few poundings as well, but there wasn't much noticeable disparity between the top DII teams of the day and your run of the mill DI teams. Merrimack, Lowell, Army, Elmira and Oswego had some wins as well.

The top 10 teams in D3 today would compete just fine at the lower DI conference level. 500% wouldn't be out of the question.
 
Re: 2013-14 Season predictions - the crystal bawl awards!!

Heck, back in the day Plattsburgh would throttle some good DI teams. I'm talking putting up an 11 spot on Colgate and a 14 spot on Notre Dame. I recall victories over UVM, Colgate, an excellent Clarkson team and tying UNH. That's just off the top of my head. Nowadays with so many more DI and DIII teams, it's a whole different game. Sure, Plattsburgh took a few poundings as well, but there wasn't much noticeable disparity between the top DII teams of the day and your run of the mill DI teams. Merrimack, Lowell, Army, Elmira and Oswego had some wins as well.

The top 10 teams in D3 today would compete just fine at the lower DI conference level. 500% wouldn't be out of the question.
 
Re: 2013-14 Season predictions - the crystal bawl awards!!

admiral0417 said:
Heck, back in the day Plattsburgh would throttle some good DI teams. I'm talking putting up an 11 spot on Colgate and a 14 spot on Notre Dame. I recall victories over UVM, Colgate, an excellent Clarkson team and tying UNH. That's just off the top of my head. Nowadays with so many more DI and DIII teams, it's a whole different game. Sure, Plattsburgh took a few poundings as well, but there wasn't much noticeable disparity between the top DII teams of the day and your run of the mill DI teams. Merrimack, Lowell, Army, Elmira and Oswego had some wins as well.

The top 10 teams in D3 today would compete just fine at the lower DI conference level. 500% wouldn't be out of the question.
Click to expand...

500% is out of the question. Trust me.
 
Re: 2013-14 Season predictions - the crystal bawl awards!!

I guess we'll never know will we? I can tell you that the players I've seen who have come down to play at the D3 level after varying degrees of success at DI have not blown me away. Those players have come from BC, Niagra, Quinnipiac, UMass and St. Lawrence. Good...yes, great...no. I can also tell you that at least half of the guys I played with could've played at the DI level (me not included). Back then it was size or academics or both as the main barriers. They're all coming from the same junior programs for the most part. Like I stated before, in the '80's Plattsburgh went 4-0-1 one year against DI. Trust ME on that.
 
Re: 2013-14 Season predictions - the crystal bawl awards!!

admiral0417 said:
I guess we'll never know will we? I can tell you that the players I've seen who have come down to play at the D3 level after varying degrees of success at DI have not blown me away. Those players have come from BC, Niagra, Quinnipiac, UMass and St. Lawrence. Good...yes, great...no. I can also tell you that at least half of the guys I played with could've played at the DI level (me not included). Back then it was size or academics or both as the main barriers. They're all coming from the same junior programs for the most part. Like I stated before, in the '80's Plattsburgh went 4-0-1 one year against DI. Trust ME on that.
Click to expand...

BTW, 500% is not .500 (that is why it is out of the question).
 
Re: 2013-14 Season predictions - the crystal bawl awards!!

PSUChamps2001 said:
HERE, HERE , HERE , HERE , HERE

While Morisville got blown out (still would have liked to see what it would have been had Relcof played 60 minutes), several DIII teams beat Morisville by 6 and 7 runs.

Yes Norwich lost both games against Dartmouth, would have been something had Parker not given up 3 goals in the first 7 minutes of the game however.

And in short, Princeton and Dartmouth are a much tougher competition then most of the AHA.
Click to expand...


That would be "Hear, hear, etc.", Champs... (As in using one's ears.)

:rolleyes:
 
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Re: 2013-14 Season predictions - the crystal bawl awards!!

admiral0417 said:
I guess we'll never know will we? I can tell you that the players I've seen who have come down to play at the D3 level after varying degrees of success at DI have not blown me away. Those players have come from BC, Niagra, Quinnipiac, UMass and St. Lawrence. Good...yes, great...no. I can also tell you that at least half of the guys I played with could've played at the DI level (me not included). Back then it was size or academics or both as the main barriers. They're all coming from the same junior programs for the most part. Like I stated before, in the '80's Plattsburgh went 4-0-1 one year against DI. Trust ME on that.
Click to expand...


I haven't seen a single drop-down from D-1 who was successful at that higher level in the last ten years or so... If you can name names, please do.
 
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Re: 2013-14 Season predictions - the crystal bawl awards!!

admiral0417 said:
Heck, back in the day Plattsburgh would throttle some good DI teams. I'm talking putting up an 11 spot on Colgate and a 14 spot on Notre Dame. I recall victories over UVM, Colgate, an excellent Clarkson team and tying UNH. That's just off the top of my head. Nowadays with so many more DI and DIII teams, it's a whole different game. Sure, Plattsburgh took a few poundings as well, but there wasn't much noticeable disparity between the top DII teams of the day and your run of the mill DI teams. Merrimack, Lowell, Army, Elmira and Oswego had some wins as well.

The top 10 teams in D3 today would compete just fine at the lower DI conference level. 500% wouldn't be out of the question.
Click to expand...

I seriously doubt it... D-1 and D-3 are not even remotely on the same page anymore.

(And if you want to argue otherwise, tell me where are the D-3 players in the NHL, while that league is rife with D-1 guys?)

If you can play these days, the scouts will find you, and that's why the players have settled-in to their rightful niches.

I'm OK with it; D-3 hockey is still a very fun thing to watch, but well over 99.5% of the guys you watch at D-3 are going to have to get real jobs sooner rather than later, and that's a verifiable fact.
 
Re: 2013-14 Season predictions - the crystal bawl awards!!

Fishman'81 said:
I seriously doubt it... D-1 and D-3 are not even remotely on the same page anymore.

(And if you want to argue otherwise, tell me where are the D-3 players in the NHL, while that league is rife with D-1 guys?)

If you can play these days, the scouts will find you, and that's why the players have settled-in to their rightful niches.

I'm OK with it; D-3 hockey is still a very fun thing to watch, but well over 99.5% of the guys you watch at D-3 are going to have to get real jobs sooner rather than later, and that's a verifiable fact.
Click to expand...

And the percentage of D-1 players from .500 and lower teams going to have to get real jobs sooner rather than later, is about the same, so your point is?
 
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