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2013-14 NHL Season - With a Wing and a Fehr

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Re: 2013-14 NHL Season - With a Wing and a Fehr

Priceless said:
OK, I understand now. Union=bad. Management=good. A bunch of union goons from the teamsters probably worked poor Shanahan over and have threatened his family if he gives out a severe penalty.

Damm commies.
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Nope, you don't get it. There isn't a conspiracy against the Bruins. There's management screwing up by protecting more skilled players when they do stupid stuff (if it was Engelland that threw out his knee, do we really think he'd only have gotten a phone call?) and there's the union that fights suspensions and helped set up a system where you can't really be punished unless you've already done a few really crappy things already. They both set where the line of conduct is and both of them fight against where they themselves placed the line. In my mind that makes both sides culpable.
 
Re: 2013-14 NHL Season - With a Wing and a Fehr

Rimbaud said:
Nope, you don't get it. There isn't a conspiracy against the Bruins. There's management screwing up by protecting more skilled players when they do stupid stuff (if it was Engelland that threw out his knee, do we really think he'd only have gotten a phone call?) and there's the union that fights suspensions and helped set up a system where you can't really be punished unless you've already done a few really crappy things already. They both set where the line of conduct is and both of them fight against where they themselves placed the line. In my mind that makes both sides culpable.
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Best concise explanation I've heard. Well said.
 
Re: 2013-14 NHL Season - With a Wing and a Fehr

I get the sense that not many have actually been in a union.

The main mandate of the union is to protect the interest of its members, this includes everybody, from Syndey Crosby all the way to a random guy just called up from the AHL.

The Union collectively bargained those guidelines to prevent the types of actions that you people seem to advocate. If somebody screws up, they should get a second chance. You don't just ban a guy for an entire season on every emotionally charged incident, especially when a guy has no history of it. This is hockey, everybody is prone to doing over the line stuff, even the stars.
 
Re: 2013-14 NHL Season - With a Wing and a Fehr

J.D. said:
Thornton himself knows he crossed the line. He admitted it after the game. James Neal? Not so much. Claude Julien basically acknowledged that both incidents are not what we're looking for in our game. Thus there is absolutely no need for teammates to come out and do what you're asking for. Shawn Thornton had never been suspended prior to this incident. He has no history. He lost it, but he didn't make any excuses. Suspended for the rest of the year? What?
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It was an example, hence the "for example" in my post. I wasn't making specifics to Thornton but a generalization. To be clear the point was that these incidents will not stop until the league, players and the union all start to take it seriously. Right now the league by not seriously suspending players is allowing it to continue, the players obviously don't care since they continue to do it, and the union continues to fight for the scum who do it even as it jeopardizes the majority of their members. Status quo. I guarantee we will be having this discussion again before the Olympics due to a similarly serious incident.
 
Re: 2013-14 NHL Season - With a Wing and a Fehr

Jimjamesak said:
The main mandate of the union is to protect the interest of its members, this includes everybody, from Syndey Crosby all the way to a random guy just called up from the AHL.
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True, but I do not think they are protecting the interest of its members anymore with regards to these type of incidents. I wonder what their PR is going to be when a repeat offender seriously, and I mean seriously, hurts another player? I suppose blame the league for not doing enough?
 
Re: 2013-14 NHL Season - With a Wing and a Fehr

MattS said:
True, but I do not think they are protecting the interest of its members anymore with regards to these type of incidents. I wonder what their PR is going to be when a repeat offender seriously, and I mean seriously, hurts another player? I suppose blame the league for not doing enough?
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Bertuzzi? You just continue to let him play.
 
Re: 2013-14 NHL Season - With a Wing and a Fehr

My take is that there just seems to be a lack of respect for your fellow player. Two things would've stopped it in my opinion. The refs get in the way and usher Orpik from Thornton and warn the benches that any more shenanigans happen and they start tossing guys. Or Orpik realizes he screwed up, mans up and takes his beatdown. Just my two cents.

What Thornton did was wrong and he knows it. Neal kneeing the guy in the head was way out of line as well.
 
Re: 2013-14 NHL Season - With a Wing and a Fehr

I don't get why people keep mentioning Thornton's apology (or "he knows he screwed up") as any part of this discussion. Does that really diminish or excuse what he did? He still slew footed and pounded upon a defenseless person. Yeah, so he supposedly realized what he did was wrong, big deal. It is nice to hear, and makes Bruins fans and the media all warm and fuzzy but he still committed the act. In the end it should have zero bearing on how long his vacation is.

I am using Thornton as an example. The same principle goes for anyone who commits a similar act, later says they are sorry, and people use it as a "defense".
 
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Re: 2013-14 NHL Season - With a Wing and a Fehr

J.D. said:
Thornton himself knows he crossed the line. He admitted it after the game. James Neal? Not so much. Claude Julien basically acknowledged that both incidents are not what we're looking for in our game. Thus there is absolutely no need for teammates to come out and do what you're asking for. Shawn Thornton had never been suspended prior to this incident. He has no history. He lost it, but he didn't make any excuses. Suspended for the rest of the year? What?
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Hell, if you listen to Neal tell it, he barely grazed Marchand by accident.
 
Re: 2013-14 NHL Season - With a Wing and a Fehr

MattS said:
I don't get why people keep mentioning Thornton's apology (or "he knows he screwed up") as any part of this discussion. Does that really diminish or excuse what he did? He still slew footed and pounded upon a defenseless person. Yeah, so he supposedly realized what he did was wrong, big deal. It is nice to hear, and makes Bruins fans and the media all warm and fuzzy but he still committed the act. In the end it should have zero bearing on how long his vacation is.

I am using Thornton as an example. The same principle goes for anyone who commits a similar act, later says they are sorry, and people use it as a "defense".
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You brought up the fact that players/coaches need to come out and say what Thornton did (as an example) is wrong, etc. No, they don't. The reason for that is because Thornton himself knows he screwed up bad, that he crossed the line. He doesn't need anybody telling him that. Again, prior to this incident, he had had no history at all with the league in regard to suspensions, etc. He's always played an honest game and followed the "code". Judging by your commentary, there's no doubt in my mind that you did not hear the audio of Thornton after the game. He mentioned that he knows Orpik well and that they skate together in the offseason, etc. Whether you like it or not, player history with suspensions DOES play a factor in these decisions. Brendan Shanahan always mentions whether the player has a history or not in those little videos he does.

To me, at least Thornton can admit what he did was wrong. It's when you have people like James Neal who can't that are a bigger problem. By not being able to admit, they are more likely to do it again down the road. At least that's how I feel about it. James Neal has a history. Let me ask you something, who is more likely to get suspended again? Thornton or Neal? I am certainly not defending what Thornton did, however. He will be deserving of the punishment they throw at him.
 
Re: 2013-14 NHL Season - With a Wing and a Fehr

J.D. said:
You brought up the fact that players/coaches need to come out and say what Thornton did (as an example) is wrong, etc. .......................... He will be deserving of the punishment they throw at him.
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You obviously didn't bother to read this:

MattS said:
I am using Thornton as an example. The same principle goes for anyone who commits a similar act, later says they are sorry, and people use it as a "defense".
Click to expand...
 
Re: 2013-14 NHL Season - With a Wing and a Fehr

I read your entire post. I can't control the fact that it was confusing.
 
Re: 2013-14 NHL Season - With a Wing and a Fehr

MinnesotaNorthStar said:
Since when is a clean hit "screwing up"?
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.


Whatever Orpik has done in the past has no bearing on this play, which looked fine.

He shouldn't have to "take a beatdown" for a good hit.


Thornton's time could have been better served teaching his teammates how to play with their heads up.
 
Re: 2013-14 NHL Season - With a Wing and a Fehr

Btw, my "One Goal II (Story of the 2013 Blackhawks) book arrived yesterday.

It has a video screen embedded in the inside of the front cover that plays the final 90 seconds of game 6 and it was going off inside the box (rather loudly) as the UPS guy handed it to me. "Bolland SCORES!!!" :)

Cool book.
 
Re: 2013-14 NHL Season - With a Wing and a Fehr

MinnesotaNorthStar said:
What about him? He used to be the dirtiest player in the league...hasn't been even close for the last 3 years, if you've been paying attention.
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I've watched quite a few Wild games this year, and I don't even remember a questionable play with him. Turns out that was a very good signing. He's better than Cluster****, and we got Nino to boot.
 
Re: 2013-14 NHL Season - With a Wing and a Fehr

bigblue_dl said:
I've watched quite a few Wild games this year, and I don't even remember a questionable play with him. Turns out that was a very good signing. He's better than Cluster****, and we got Nino to boot.
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Perfect example of "throw a large book at someone to knock some sense into them." Sadly it takes the league a lot of suspensions to get to that point instead of 2-3.
 
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