2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

[mookie1995]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

I'll agree the Tampa weather is great, and the area is pretty nice, but the problem with it is it's VERY spread out and there's virtually no public transportation. Thus, everyone going will basically have to get a rental car. It was a nightmare for the Final Four when it was there at Tropicana Field because the games were in St. Pete, the NCAA designated fan hotels were in Clearwater Beach, which was a 30-40 minute bus ride but right on the ocean which was awesome, and the fan events were in Tampa, another 30-40 minute bus ride in the other direction. So account for a rental car and a good amount of gas for the weekend.

yeah... traffic is awful from mid sept thru end of may.

i worked a summer at bellaire cc between clearwater and st pete. i was able to get everywhere no problem. then i went back a couple years later in april and

 

[amherstblackbear]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

Tampa will be a great site.

How about Toronto? its kinda half way. and, heck, the Canadian fans will come and watch.

Never happen.

But if it did, it would be even better @ Montreal.

 

[alfablue]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

Another cool idea for Tampa is that you can take a cruise as an extra vacation...

(and if you like that idea, see the thread in the cafe... )

 

[Puck Swami]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

I am not so sure a Toronto Frozen Four could never happen. If Toronto organizers submitted a good bid, and the D-I hockey committee supported it as a strategic move to expose the NCAA game to the center of the hockey universe and thousands of potential recruits via the powerful Canadian hockey media, I think it would be brilliant strategic move in the ongoing recruiting struggles vs Canadian major junior.

Toronto is an easy bus trip for 85% of the US hockey playing schools and within a days drive of most of the college hockey fan base. It would be a huge recruiting boost for the sport, and there is no question in my mind that it would be a very tough ticket in Air Canada Centre. NCAA Coaches and players would love it, too. Almost every serious hockey fan would love a chance to see the Hockey Hall of Fame, and the promotional opportunity for the NCAA brand of hockey would be huge. It's also a great, relatively safe city with a lot to see and do on the off days.

If the NCAA took the huge risk of holding their showcase event in a football stadium on temporary ice in Detroit, the risk of holding the showcase event in the most important hockey city in North America would be a piece of cake in comparison. There have been football bowl games in Toronto between US college teams and no one batted an eyelash over it.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

I am not so sure a Toronto Frozen Four could never happen. If Toronto organizers submitted a good bid, and the D-I hockey committee supported it as a strategic move to expose the NCAA game to the center of the hockey universe and thousands of potential recruits via the powerful Canadian hockey media, I think it would be brilliant strategic move in the ongoing recruiting struggles vs Canadian major junior.

Toronto is an easy bus trip for 85% of the US hockey playing schools and within a days drive of most of the college hockey fan base. It would be a huge recruiting boost for the sport, and there is no question in my mind that it would be a very tough ticket in Air Canada Centre. NCAA Coaches and players would love it, too. Almost every serious hockey fan would love a chance to see the Hockey Hall of Fame, and the promotional opportunity for the NCAA brand of hockey would be huge. It's also a great, relatively safe city with a lot to see and do on the off days.

If the NCAA took the huge risk of holding their showcase event in a football stadium on temporary ice in Detroit, the risk of holding the showcase event in the most important hockey city in North America would be a piece of cake in comparison. There have been football bowl games in Toronto between US college teams and no one batted an eyelash over it.

You're forgetting one thing, passport now required for all travels between USA and Canada. Do all the American Players have passports? If they're young enough they need some paperwork with parents permission, etc. Not to mention all the fans attending from stateside would need passports...I know I have one so I'd love it but that might be in an issue especially for a team like RIT

 

[Bill]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

You're forgetting one thing, passport now required for all travels between USA and Canada. Do all the American Players have passports? If they're young enough they need some paperwork with parents permission, etc. Not to mention all the fans attending from stateside would need passports...I know I have one so I'd love it but that might be in an issue especially for a team like RIT

Some states have "enhanced" drivers licenses that allow travel between the USA and Canada in lieu of a passport. They are cheaper and quicker to get than a passport. I'm not sure how many states have them; I know Michigan is one.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

Some states have "enhanced" drivers licenses that allow travel between the USA and Canada in lieu of a passport. They are cheaper and quicker to get than a passport. I'm not sure how many states have them; I know Michigan is one.

Hmm...I was under the impression that the recent laws required everyone to have a passport or passport card. Its not about getting into canada, its about getting back into the US. The passport card only works with ground transport between the US and Mexico/Canada.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

I know the Brandon Ice Sports Forum will gladly rent ice for that. 15 minutes from downtown and bar in the rink. What more could you want.?

That's good to know; I'll make sure that location is taken into account when it's time to make decisions about the 2012 Posters' Game.

That said, there is a serious question as to whether there will be a Posters' Game in Tampa. We've observed an unmistakable trend that an increasingly high percentage of our participants drive to the FF. In other words, people don't want to fly with their gear anymore. For many, the baggage fees are a serious problem. For others, it's just the ever-increasing level of hassle.

But regardless of the exact reason, the Posters' Game may not be viable in a city where virtually all of the potential participants will be flying. What about Denver, you ask? That game was held just before widespread baggage fees kicked in. I thoroughly enjoyed the game at Magness, and am extremely glad we got to play there before onset of the fees.

One thought would be to have our 2012 Game(s) at one or more of the Regional sites...

 

[Zuck_Em_Bucky]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

Omaha's a 5.5-6 hour drive from St. Louis. Notre Dame or one of the Ohio schools is almost certainly closer.

How fast do you drive unofan? I have a friend who lived there and was lucky to make it in 6.5 hr if he really put the hammer down. It's just quicker (& most times cheaper) to fly. I don't know if Warren Buffet is going to be as big a draw as they hope!

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

No argument here. I could get on board for that.

Appreciate that. I'm guessing we're still a longshot for the foreseeable future, but it's nice to hear there's at least some potential support.

I was just expressing skepticism that there's been a softer secondary market in the past several years.

Understood, and of course you're correct. The choice of location is the lead variable, though not the only variable.

Getting face value ducats was reasonably doable in Denver & DC. Besides Columbus, we had buyers' markets in St. Louis and Detroit -- to say the least. The Milwaukee title game was perhaps the one tough ticket in recent years.

Note that the particular sites chosen have made it possible for devoted fans to get in for close to face value (or less) every year since 2004. There is something to be said for that.

 

[Bill]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

Hmm...I was under the impression that the recent laws required everyone to have a passport or passport card. Its not about getting into canada, its about getting back into the US. The passport card only works with ground transport between the US and Mexico/Canada.

I have an enhanced Michigan drivers license and I've traveled back into the US with it. It was developed specifically to allow passage between the US and Canada, Mexico and the Caribbean. I believe there are other states with something similar, but I'm not sure how many or which ones. You're right in that it applies to re-entry via ground or sea, so if you were to fly to Canada and back you would still need a passport. But it might be that for a lot of college hockey fandom, the option of getting into Canada and back without a passport exists if a lot of the border (and near border) states have something similar. Toronto isn't that far of a drive for anyone from the midwest on to the northeast. It would be a long drive for a lot of WCHA fans.

 

[Terrierbyassociation]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

CA is deliberating doing that expanded driver's license program as well.

 

[Larch]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

1. San Jose is a pretty cheap place to stay. You're confusing SF and SJ.
2. There is just as much to do in San Francisco as there is in Tampa. You have Napa Valley, Golden Gate, Chinatown, Fisherman's Wharf...etc. Tampa has a clear advantage over the Bay Area when it comes to children-friendly activities and weather.

No advantage in price or things to do.

I think SJ biggest disadvantage, especially compared to Tampa, is being so far from the core of college hockey fans. For us in the WCHA, it 's a wash either way, for somebody from the Northeast, it's a bit farther and seems a lot further. Remember, they don't want to have to go too far for their conference games.

 

[slurpees]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

Another thing working against SJ, the 3 hour time zone difference. For the current TV slot, the games would be played at 2 and 5pm. On Thursday, that would draw zero locals.

 

[bigmrg74]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

You do know that Anchorage was the host in Anaheim right?

yes

I know the Brandon Ice Sports Forum will gladly rent ice for that. 15 minutes from downtown and bar in the rink. What more could you want.?

I did say might be a problem.

Tampa will be a great site.

How about Toronto? its kinda half way. and, heck, the Canadian fans will come and watch.

Interesting....

Never happen.

But if it did, it would be even better @ Montreal.

interesting....

I am not so sure a Toronto Frozen Four could never happen. If Toronto organizers submitted a good bid, and the D-I hockey committee supported it as a strategic move to expose the NCAA game to the center of the hockey universe and thousands of potential recruits via the powerful Canadian hockey media, I think it would be brilliant strategic move in the ongoing recruiting struggles vs Canadian major junior.

Toronto is an easy bus trip for 85% of the US hockey playing schools and within a days drive of most of the college hockey fan base. It would be a huge recruiting boost for the sport, and there is no question in my mind that it would be a very tough ticket in Air Canada Centre. NCAA Coaches and players would love it, too. Almost every serious hockey fan would love a chance to see the Hockey Hall of Fame, and the promotional opportunity for the NCAA brand of hockey would be huge. It's also a great, relatively safe city with a lot to see and do on the off days.

If the NCAA took the huge risk of holding their showcase event in a football stadium on temporary ice in Detroit, the risk of holding the showcase event in the most important hockey city in North America would be a piece of cake in comparison. There have been football bowl games in Toronto between US college teams and no one batted an eyelash over it.

Toronto would be an interesting place to hold a Frozen Four. Game should sell out easily, and hell, before anybody starts *****ing about passports, I'm pretty sure most of the kids in the NCAA have played enough travel hockey of some kind where getting a passport to go to canada to play there that would already have a valid passport. And its not like the NCAA couldn't go thru all of the teams sometime in January to have them go thru and check all of their players to see who has a valid passport. They can all copy it down, and fax in a list to see who has one, and who doesn't. One could make a suggestion that they get one, just in case. And if they haven't by the time the NCAA Field rolls around, there's only going to be a handfull of kids that wouldn't have one at that time among 16 teams. The NCAA would probably be able to find somebody at the Passport office that could rush those people thru, but make em sweat a little bit as well. Honestly, I'm pretty sure the bigger deal is going to be for the student fans, who wouldn't have the time to get a passport at the last minute. But that probably only means they would be delayed at the border for a while getting back.

Another Canadian city I would throw out there would be Vancouver. As of next school year, Simon Frasier is in the NCAA. Although they won't have varsity hockey, they're right there and could be a secondary school host for say one of the Alaska Schools. And I've been hearing a lot of Rumblings about UBC getting their all of their T's crossed and their I's dotted for an NCAA move as well. They've already got a great on campus arena, their only problem would be finding a D1 Hockey league that would want them in right now, as for that goofy new roll that a school can't move up from D2 to D1 without a conference backing your move. That right there seems to be the biggest thing from keeping the Thunderbirds from jumping to the NCAA.

 

[CLS]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

. . .
Note that the particular sites chosen have made it possible for devoted fans to get in for close to face value (or less) every year since 2004. There is something to be said for that.

There's also something to be said for not encouraging people who'd have high priority from buying a ticket with no intention of going, but rather because resale was profitable. I'm convinced that there are some Red Sox and Patriots season ticket holders who don't attend games but keep renewing because there's such a strong secondary market. In fact I was hoping that Columbus would cure people of doing that.

 

[amherstblackbear]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

If the NCAA took the huge risk of holding their showcase event in a football stadium on temporary ice in Detroit, the risk of holding the showcase event in the most important hockey city in North America would be a piece of cake in comparison. There have been football bowl games in Toronto between US college teams and no one batted an eyelash over it.

I agree that Toronto would be a great destination. I still think that Montreal is more fun, but there are a lot of reasons in Toronto's favor. I don't think it would be a monetary risk.

The question is whether the NCAA would hold a championship event outside the country. Bowl games aren't NCAA championships (as defenders of the bowl system drill into our heads every year). I think the main reason nobody has batted an eyelash about bowl games being held North of the border is that . . . honestly . . . nobody bats an eyelash about 3rd or 4th tier bowl games, anyway.

The idea of having all BCS bowl games outside the country for a year would do a lot more than bat some eyelashes - and not just because of the geographic and stadium tie-ins (Rose Bowl, Orange Bowl, etc).

Granted, hockey's center of gravity is somewhere near Toronto anyway; college football's is somewhere between Alabama and Texas...

 

[Ralph Baer]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

How about Toronto? its kinda half way. and, heck, the Canadian fans will come and watch.

U. Minnesota would object.

 

[BC/HE]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

Another thing working against SJ, the 3 hour time zone difference. For the current TV slot, the games would be played at 2 and 5pm. On Thursday, that would draw zero locals.

Interesting concept they could try there would be Saturday Semifinals and go to a Monday night Final like they do in Basketball. It actually would allow some fans the chance to get out on a redeye late Monday with a 5:00 local start as well. The present set up makes you miss two weekdays anyway so it is not much different. TV audience would be much bigger on a Monday night too.

 

[huskyfan]

Re: 2013, '14, '15 Frozen Four Sites

passports. bah. by the time you are 18 you should have a passport.

Toronto might cause enough excitement to get ESPN to actually cover the games.