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2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

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Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

I tried putting forth the requirement for licensing of gun owners similar to vehicle licenses. The folks on this board did not like it due to Constitutional questions.

Somebody tweeted today that since 1968 almost 400K people have been killed by guns in the USA. That's more than all the US deaths in WW-II. Bad use of math. WW-II was 4 years, we've had almost 45 years since '68. How many died in vehicle accidents since then? How many from drug overdoses?

He could also cite that a majority of deaths in the world population since the dawn of time have occurred in the last 100 or so years.

And only a tiny fraction of a percent of those victims were killed in mass shootings. Frankly, I'm not opposed to tightening our gun laws. But I am opposed to the intellectual dishonesty of gun control proponants who imply these changes are going to protect us from psychos. They won't.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

What if we put armed Wounded Warriors in schools? Not that I'd like an armed presence in my kids' schools, but I would think that the WW's would be like lions protecting cubs.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

Anyone hear Barry's speech from last night? Dude seemed to be imagining himself at Gettysburg with a stovepipe hat on, or standing on the smoldering remains of 2,000 dead at ground zero with a bullhorn. Looks to be a precursor for some kind of ban on guns to attempt to build a "legacy" for his presidency, but for a guy whose most important policy statement from 4 years in office was the whining, wheedling whimper of "If y.. y.. y... you have... have have a s... s... small business, you didn't built that!!!! You didn't build that!!!", he's going to have to do something he imagines is big and important to be remembered by.

This take is not surprising given the frequency of your incoherent *****ing about the President.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

This take is not surprising given the frequency of your incoherent *****ing about the President.

This response is not surprising given the frequency of your incoherent *****ing about USCHO knuckledraggers.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

This response is not surprising given the frequency of your incoherent *****ing about USCHO knuckledraggers.

Sounds like an appeal for knuckledraggers: If you pr!~ck them do they not bleed?

Shakespeare can't pass the censors
 
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

What if we put armed Wounded Warriors in schools? Not that I'd like an armed presence in my kids' schools, but I would think that the WW's would be like lions protecting cubs.

turning schools into militarized zones is the wrong approach. We need to fix the root problem, or we have failed as a society. We are a 3rd world country no matter how many flat screen TVs we have.

Its bad enough that my 4 year old son that goes to pre-K has to have lockdown drills at school (they just had one a few weeks ago). Luckily he doesn't really understand (yet) what kind of event he is practicing for.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

Old Pio will like this, they had the Mayor of Chicago on CBS news this morning calling for some Gun control.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

Somebody tweeted today that since 1968 almost 400K people have been killed by guns in the USA. That's more than all the US deaths in WW-II. Bad use of math. WW-II was 4 years, we've had almost 45 years since '68. How many died in vehicle accidents since then? How many from drug overdoses?

So we shouldn't try to save some people because there are other causes of death? I don't follow that rationale.

A couple of other points...

You hear that its not guns...its the Lanzas of the world you need to stop. So in this scenario...the feds probably know of 1000 or two Lanzas out there that are risks. What would you advocate they do? Should they arrest them all? Imprison them? If so, do you extend those included to people who make threats on message boards? The prisons would be full before new years.

You hear that if guns didn't exist, the Lanza's of the world would resort to other weapons including FF's hands. My question is if these other weapons are so great...why don't any of these killers use knives? Or their bare hands? Why don't they use any other weapon...ever? Why do they always use guns? Could it possibly be that with a knife a guy at an elementary school can be stopped by one guy with a baseball bat. With guns you're nearly impossible to stop...and its easier to kill mass numbers? No, its guns and specifically those with high rates of fire that make it so hard to stop catastrophies like this.

You hear that the right is all about small government. If the right is so gung ho about localized rights (states rights) how come they refuse to let urban counties have gun control as they see fit?

So part of the problem is that there are potential solutions around limiting access to guns from those who pose the greatest risk to society and situations where they pose the greatest risk to society. But that the right and the GOP not only will not discuss those solutions...but often become irrationale when it comes to any sort of discussion about solutions. The guns issue is an extreme example of the worst disfunctionality of US govt in terms of inability to compromise and undue influence by special interests.
 
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

Pat Buchanan weighs in over at townhall.com.

Good points.

"No set of laws can eliminate evil from the world, or prevent every senseless act of violence in our society."
So said President Obama in words of comfort in Newtown. The president was right to speak of evil, but mistaken when he called the massacre "senseless."

For this was a premeditated and purposeful act of mass murder, and the devil that did it knew exactly what he was doing and why.

When he put four bullets into his mother's head while she lay in bed, Adam Lanza wanted her life ended along with his. When he headed for Sandy Hook Elementary, with the Glocks and Bushmaster rifle, he knew he would encounter no armed resistance.

Before he went into that school to shoot 20, 30 or 40 children, barely more than babies, he knew his slaughter would be so stomach-turning and heart-wrenching that the TV crews would come running.

And by day's end, the world would know who Adam Lanza was.

Lanza kept firing at the children until he heard the sirens. Then he pulled out one of the Glocks, put it to his head and ended it, knowing he was on his way to becoming world famous.

Will ending all sales and transfers of assault rifles and limiting the rounds in clips and magazines reduce these massacres in malls, movie theaters and schools? Did it succeed when the assault weapons ban was in force in the Clinton years?

If assault rifles are evil things that ought not be in the hands of decent Americans, why do "shoot-to-kill" video games feature these weapons?

Why does Hollywood glamorize assault rifles in action-packed films of slaughter starring Bruce Willis, Sylvester Stallone, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Chuck Norris and Jason Statham?

Few of America's young have seen an assault weapon fired outside the military. Scores of millions have seen them fired on TV. Many of our movies are advertisements for the efficiency of assault weapons in the hands of good guys doing heroic deeds.

Are the folks who think America would be a better place with a more restrictive Second Amendment willing to restrict the First Amendment to stop all distribution of movies and cable shows that depict famous actors blasting enemies with assault weapons?

Not long ago, there existed in our hearts "a fear of God."

How, we would ask ourselves, if we commit an evil act like murder, will we answer at God's judgment seat? For He will decide if we enter what the president called in Newtown, God's "eternal house in heaven."

But if God is dead, not to worry. Just put the gun to your head and pull the trigger, and it's over. No trial. No disgrace. No prison. Nothing to worry about anymore.

No voice of conscience told Adam: Do not do this evil thing! Now he is no longer a nobody, a nerd, a recluse. He is famous. Everybody is talking about him, and ruminating on what might have motivated him.

Adam wanted to be somebody. And now he is.

And out there others like him are thinking: That could be me.
 
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...


I think this is a very important point. What are the politicians trying to sneak under our nose while the population is "distracted" by an event? I'm not saying that the government told him to go after the school, but you need to pay attention what happens during these "coincidences". Michael Jackson dies, and SOPA gets passed. Sandy shows up, and Obummer uses it as an excuse to get the pressure off him. A school shooting happens, and Böhner surrenders.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

I don't think The Boner keeps his speakership after a deal gets reached. He would have given up the Holy Grail of knuckledraggerism, NO TAX HIKES EVER FOR ANYTHING, and given up the GOP's leverage on the debt ceiling. Pushing that debate closer to the next election, when Obama isn't up again but Congress is, doesn't seem like the actions of a man who feels he's long for his current position. It seems like the actions of a man with nothing to lose because he's already got a foot out the door.

In other news, knuckledraggers still running wild in Arizona!

AZ Electoral College Delegates Voted Today

By howard fischer
The state's 11 Republican electors formally cast their ballots today for Mitt Romney -- but not before three of them said questions remain about whether Barack Obama was born in this country.



AZ GOP Chairman Tom Morrissey and John Rhodes, sign Electoral College papers casting their vote for Mitt Romney. Both men said they have doubts about President Obama's birth certificate and his right to serve.
The Electoral College voting is pretty much pro forma: The electors for whoever got the most votes for president in Arizona come to the Capitol to cast their ballots. But during the voting, state GOP Chairman Tom Morrissey said doubts remain about the legitimacy of Obama's birth certificate.

"I'm not satisfied with what I've seen," Morrissey said. "I think for somebody in the president's position to not have produced a document that looks more legitimate, I have a problem with that."

Elector Don Ascoli said the fact Obama got more popular votes is irrelevant to the truth.

"The majority of the people had no dream that Bill Clinton did what he did until a young lady had a blue dress and proved he did," Ascoli said. "And he had to come out and apologize to the world because he lied to you and me."

Gov Jan Brewer, who vetoed a bill last year to have the state demand candidates' birth certificates, sought to distance herself from her fellow Republicans.

"The bottom line is everybody's entitled to their own opinion. And I happen to disagree," she said.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

You hear that if guns didn't exist, the Lanza's of the world would resort to other weapons including FF's hands. My question is if these other weapons are so great...why don't any of these killers use knives? Or their bare hands? Why don't they use any other weapon...ever? Why do they always use guns? Could it possibly be that with a knife a guy at an elementary school can be stopped by one guy with a baseball bat. With guns you're nearly impossible to stop...and its easier to kill mass numbers? No, its guns and specifically those with high rates of fire that make it so hard to stop catastrophies like this.
So you're suggesting we have guys walk around elementary schools with a baseball bat to protect the students??

First, the reason people choose to use guns is because guns are available, they're easy to use, you are somewhat "detached" from your victim (you don't actually have to physically touch them to kill them), they are popularly depicted as devices used to kill people in movies, tv and video games, and a variety of other reasons. That doesn't mean, though, that if you banish guns killing will go away, or even mass killing. Mass killings have existed since humans existed in one form or another, and there hasn't been a direct correlation with mass executions and the invention of firearms made, at least as far as I've seen.

With respect to your comments about the types of guns used, as I understand it both the rifle and the two handguns were "semi-automatic", not "automatic" firearms. In fact, I don't think you can even buy automatic firearms anymore.

Semi-automatic weapons means one bullet exits the gun each time you pull the trigger, which is the basic principal behind every firearm. A semi-automatic weapon just does the reloading for you, admittedly not at the same speed as old Chuck Connors and his Winchester 30-30. Semi-automatic firearms are a basic staple of many hunters and can include shotguns, long rifles and handguns.

We've banned fully automatic weapons and that hasn't stopped the killings, even though no one ever uses one anymore. You can now ban semi-automatic weapons. That won't stop the killings either. Then you can move on to bolt action, pump action, lever action and even single shot firearms. But again, that won't stop the killings.

I think someone pointed out yesterday that this country, a few decades ago, got away from the institutionalizing of people with mental defects. We used to just warehouse them. You had a kid or young adult who wasn't just "right", they could end up in what we kids used to call the "nuthouse." Wasn't very humane, and somewhere along the line we decided everyone deserved the right to be "integrated" into our society, regardless of your ability to function within that society. I'm not here to say whether that decision was good or bad.

Candidly, imho, the people or thing to blame for the recent shooting isn't the guns. It isn't videogames or movies or violent tv. It isn't our lack of laws, or correct laws. It's us. It's our neverending lust to rubberneck at the tragedy of others.

The NFL, major league baseball and others have refused to show idiots running naked onto their ballfields, in order to discourage behavior. To a large extent it has worked. Where's the fun in running naked onto the field with 22 large football players who are more than happy to put you down if you don't get a little ESPN time out of it.

I turned on my tv after work the night of the shooting to see a semi-sober Diane Sawyer breathlessly announce she was going to spend an hour talking about "The Tragedy at the Elementary School." The bodies weren't even cold yet and they had friggin named the event.

And everyday since there has been little else in the newspaper or on tv. That is, until the next Aurora, Columbine, etc...

Why do they do it? Because we the public watch it. We demand it. It's why people slow down to look at an accident scene on the other side of the interstate highway. We love tragedy, so long as it's not our own. We want to see. So the networks keep showing it, and we keep watching it, and some idiot named Adam Lanza has received way more than his 15 minutes of fame, just like he knew he would when he picked up those guns that morning.

Somewhere along the line I long for the day when the event would have been announced on the nightly news, without pictures and probably without a reporter on location, and we'd have moved on, and maybe Adam Lanza doesn't even know it happened.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

Too many people from commentators to politicians to USCHO posters are taking the easy way out, which is to throw up your hands and say "oh well, nothing can be done" like they're some sort of sage for saying something so empty.

Following some of the logic I see, we shouldn't bother to criminalize the act of murder, because murder still happens despite the laws on the books. That's stupid.

We can tighten up the ability of nutjobs to get guns. The whole point is as they are irrational people generally, they may slip up and tip their hand as to what they plan on doing when they go to purchase their weapons legally (and are hopefullly denied). That only happens if every gun sale is subject to a background check. Yes, guns can still be stolen, but you're counting on the half crazed person to be completely lucent when it comes to avoiding detection of their upcoming crime. I'm not sure they're all going to have that presense of mind.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election - The Day after the Aftermath...

First, the reason people choose to use guns is because guns are available, they're easy to use, you are somewhat "detached" from your victim (you don't actually have to physically touch them to kill them), they are popularly depicted as devices used to kill people in movies, tv and video games, and a variety of other reasons. That doesn't mean, though, that if you banish guns killing will go away, or even mass killing. Mass killings have existed since humans existed in one form or another, and there hasn't been a direct correlation with mass executions and the invention of firearms made, at least as far as I've seen.

With respect to your comments about the types of guns used, as I understand it both the rifle and the two handguns were "semi-automatic", not "automatic" firearms. In fact, I don't think you can even buy automatic firearms anymore.

Semi-automatic weapons means one bullet exits the gun each time you pull the trigger, which is the basic principal behind every firearm. A semi-automatic weapon just does the reloading for you, admittedly not at the same speed as old Chuck Connors and his Winchester 30-30. Semi-automatic firearms are a basic staple of many hunters and can include shotguns, long rifles and handguns.

We've banned fully automatic weapons and that hasn't stopped the killings, even though no one ever uses one anymore. You can now ban semi-automatic weapons. That won't stop the killings either. Then you can move on to bolt action, pump action, lever action and even single shot firearms. But again, that won't stop the killings.

You try to ban guns, and you get this:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/MI6-2x_R2VM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
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