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2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vacante

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Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

Romney's mistake is in setting the percentage as low as 47%. Reality, given the feds giving away money to the tune of $1.2 trillion plus a year more than they have is that a whole lot of folks could reasonably be considered to be parasitic on the federal government. Of course the public doesn't like to be told such truths, which is why we just get campaign slogans for months on end. Just another sign that few in this country are ready for honest dialogue on the problems facing this nation.
You raise a good point. Just about every farmer (including the corporate farms) and every employee of many major corporations, for example. The problem wasn't the truth value of the comment, it was the utter disdain that was shown for the poorer half of the country. Frankly, in my mind, it had nothing to do with welfare, it had to do with the disgust Romney keeps showing he feels, not for poverty, but for the poor.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

Frankly, in my mind, it had nothing to do with welfare, it had to do with the disgust Romney keeps showing he feels, not for poverty, but for the poor.

That certainly fits with the prevailing neo-Social-Darwinist narrative that seems to have enthralled many in the GOP.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

Well no **** nobody was prosecuted for breaking a law that didn't exist!

It's a felony in pretty much every state to engage in the type of conduct typically deemed "voter fraud" whether there's a voter ID law in place or not.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

So the voting coalition Romney seems to be shooting for is crabby old rich white guy social conservatives plus a smattering of young males who aren't getting laid? I think those are the only groups he hasn't offended or outright dismissed.

RMoney also has the gun thumpers and bible toters in his camp.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/19/o...-E-FB-SM-LIN-MRC-091912-NYT-NA&WT.mc_ev=click

When you think of class warfare, you probably think of inciting anger, resentment and jealousy among the have-nots against the haves. That’s what Mr. Romney has accused Mr. Obama of doing, but those charges have always been false. The truth is that Mr. Romney has been trying to incite the anger of a small slice of the richest Americans who need no government assistance but get it anyway, against the working poor, older Americans, the disabled workers and veterans, and even a significant chunk of middle-class Americans.

Mr. Romney sure is an interesting candidate.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca


The GOP figured something out a long time ago. The wealthy always vote and often write checks. The poor rarely vote and can't write checks. The top 4% of eligible voters and the bottom 14% of eligible voters account for the same percentage of actual votes cast (6% each), and that's without considering the enormous financial clout of the former.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

Ever so rarely I come accross a good political article and I saw a blurb summarizing the recent GOP pundit attacks on Mittens (Peggy Noonan, Mark McKinnon, Bill Kristol, etc). The point was a lot of these hard core righties never liked him in the first place, and are now getting fed up with defending him. After the polls, the big thing I'll be watching is fund raising. Not sure why Romney hasn't used his $$$ to try to expand the map, but beyond that if he gets outraised by Obama again this month that tells me 1) his big bucks supports are hedging their bets and also giving money to the Prez, and 2) there may be a shift in concentration to House and Senate races which look fluid at this point but may be a better investment.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

Ever so rarely I come accross a good political article and I saw a blurb summarizing the recent GOP pundit attacks on Mittens (Peggy Noonan, Mark McKinnon, Bill Kristol, etc). The point was a lot of these hard core righties never liked him in the first place, and are now getting fed up with defending him.

David Brooks (R-Georgetown) represents the backlash from what's left of the self-proclaimed "intellectual" wing. Jennifer Rubin (Likud-Tel Aviv) has stopped carrying water for him too, which is sad given he sold his soul to AIPAC and it still wasn't enough for them.

Bill Kristol I give Mittens a pass on. He is the Republican Dick Morris -- a sniveling little backstabber who anyone would be a fool to trust as a surrogate.

Brown (R-Jockey Shorts) and McMahon ($-Wrestlemania) both backed the bus over Mitt yesterday saying they lurved the 47% of kiss kiss may I smell your working class hands rough from laboring in God's fields oh yes I said yes yes.

So that's probably not a good sign for party unity.

The new girl who just took over for the guy who wasn't as good as the original supercool girl explains it all to you.
 
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

Obamanomics seems empirically to have been disproven; here are some academic considerations why that is so:

In a famous exchange, Austrian economist Friedrich Hayek was asked, "Is it your view that if I went out tomorrow [with a government subsidy] and bought a new overcoat, that would increase unemployment?" "Yes," answered Hayek, "but it would take a very long mathematical argument to explain why."

Minus the math, Hayek's argument was that money would be removed from the productive economy, and capital would be wrongly allocated to overcoats based on this false demand. Substitute Chevy Volts and you get the picture.

Yes, the wealthy, most of whom got rich by risking capital and delivering something productive to the economy, tend to save more. But they don't shove it under the mattress, they invest it in the productive fabric of the economy. The president's rhetoric harps on the notion that millionaires and billionaires don't "need" the money from a tax cut. But think of it this way: They, like Henry Ford, have proven that they can invest the money productively—better than any government program—whether directly into companies or into stocks, private equity or venture capital that create long lasting jobs and expand the middle class.

Some would call this supply-side economics. President Obama on the campaign trail calls it "trickle-down snake oil," even "fairy dust." I like the term i-side economics—for investment and innovation and individual incentive—rather than g-side economics, as in "what has the government given me lately?"

Perversely, class warfare hurts the group it is alleged to help. [emphasis added] For every dollar of stimulus or government spending paid for by the half of the population that pays taxes, you take away a dollar that might have been invested in creating higher-paying jobs. That's just dumb. Misallocating capital is a formula—a negative multiplier—for stagnation, not growth.

I guess the laws of economics have been rescinded and so none of this matters as long as our hearts are pure and our intentions are noble?
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

Obamanomics is very simple. Spend as much as you can as fast as you can to juice the economy enough to get elected again. That's it. You take away his juicing the economy a dozen ways from Sunday and his chance of getting reelected would be nearly nil (it wouldn't be nil because Romney is a weak candidate himself). But such nuances generally escape the voting public.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

Bill Kristol I give Mittens a pass on. He is the Republican Dick Morris -- a sniveling little backstabber who anyone would be a fool to trust as a surrogate.
I certainly won't argue with your assessment of Kristol but even a blind pig finds an acorn now and then.
Has there been a presidential race in modern times featuring two candidates who have done so little over their lifetimes for our country, and who have so little substance to say about the future of our country?
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

Obamanomics seems empirically to have been disproven; here are some academic considerations why that is so:



I guess the laws of economics have been rescinded and so none of this matters as long as our hearts are pure and our intentions are noble?

Don't know if you're stupid or just play a stupid person on the USCHO message board, but this freshman economics analysis is easily swatted. Before I do so, 1982 called and wants it policies back.

The notion that "rich", "wealthy", "job creators", however else you want to term them will invest to grow the economy is a juvenile analysis no matter how many letters one puts after their name. People with money are going to invest that money where they can get the highest return. Right now that's in the planned economy of China. Or they could take a flier on up and comer Brazil. Or bet on Germany. Or Singapore, South Korea, etc. The point being, borrowing a dollar and giving it to Mitt Romney gives you little hope that the dollar will be invested in its entirety in the US. I doubt half of it will be, as simple diversification would demand investing in multiple markets.

BUT, you say, didn't JFK lower tax rates? Yes, and 50 years ago with countries still rebuilding from the rubble of the 2nd World War, there weren't alot of other places to park your money. Even in the early 1980's the Chinese, Russian, and Eastern European countries were closed to investment and much of South America was still emerging from military dictatorships. The only competition was Japan who made out very nicely under Reaganism, and perhaps England.

So, all we have is tired hack economists spouting a dead economic theory with no place in the modern world. Gee, what else does that sound like? Conservatism maybe?
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

all we have is tired hack economists spouting a dead economic theory with no place in the modern world.

I feel your pain, man. You go ahead and light up that big bad straw man with your righteous outrage. That'll work.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

I feel your pain, man. You go ahead and light up that big bad straw man with your righteous outrage. That'll work.

What pain? I'm not a Romney supporter? :confused::D
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

Although these arguments about the 99% and the 47% and the 1% could get ugly, it's good that we are finally having them. Income and class are at the heart of American domestic policies and we have rarely faced that as a country. We may finally be starting to. That's a lot healthier than elites gaming the system in the dark.

"Publicity is justly commended as a remedy for social and industrial diseases. Sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants; electric light the most efficient policeman."

The more people truly understand about the way our fiscal policies work, the more they can make intelligent decisions at the polls. Since both sides sincerely believe their conclusions are the intelligent ones, both sides should welcome the end to opaqueness.
 
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Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

Obamanomics seems empirically to have been disproven; here are some academic considerations why that is so:

I guess the laws of economics have been rescinded and so none of this matters as long as our hearts are pure and our intentions are noble?

Here's the issue with even this side of the thread: it only focuses on how to distribute wealth. What is sorely missed by all of these arguments is what to do with this wealth once these entities have it, regardless of how it is obtained. Perhaps we need to look at how it is being spent, not how it is being earned.

Let's take a group of people we'll call "overnight millionaires". These are the people that win the lottery, are majorly successful on a game show, or meet up with a fortunate gift (whether it's a philanthropist or an inheritance). What are they actually doing with the money? Sadly, a large percentage of them (and this does NOT mean 100%) are over-splurging. They're not being productive and bettering themselves. They think it has to be spent right away, so they get lavish vehicles, large mansions, hundred dollar steak dinners, you name it. There's no actual plan; instead, there's greed. Heck, recent administrations have fallen into the same bear trap. When the debt ceiling was raised a while back, what was the first thing the Obama administration did? They tacked on new spending.

Now, let's take a look at some of the most fiscally conservative, yet not necessarily very rich, people. What are they doing with their money? Well, most of them are shopping at Goodwill or discount food chains. They drive lower priced, efficient vehicles. They aren't necessarily buying the newest piece of technology once it comes out, or the hottest brand name. They live in apartments or modest houses. They're making risk-conscious investments that yield them returns expected based upon the risk they take. They also look to take the best possible advantage they can of any situation that arises before them. This is exactly what the companies that FreshFish mentioned are doing.

Now is not the time to ask how the money will be bequeathed upon you; now is the time to ask what you can do to create a higher standard of living.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

Here's the issue with even this side of the thread: it only focuses on how to distribute wealth. What is sorely missed by all of these arguments is what to do with this wealth once these entities have it, regardless of how it is obtained.

I think both of those statements miss the essential point: how to put the most people into a position in which they can create wealth. That's why opportunity is so important. We don't want to just shave down the bumps to fill in the ruts. We want to give the greatest number of people the resources where they can then use their own genius to think up and execute the next world-changing ideas.

If you shrink the pool of discoverers, capital has nothing worthwhile to invest in. That's why inequality, aside from all the moral considerations, is inefficient.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

Although these arguments about the 99% and the 47% and the 1% could get ugly, it's good that we are finally having them. Income and class are at the heart of American domestic policies and we have rarely faced that as a country. We may finally be starting to. That's a lot healthier than elites gaming the system in the dark.

The more people truly understand about the way our fiscal policies work, the more they can make intelligent decisions at the polls. Since both sides sincerely believe their conclusions are the intelligent ones, both sides should welcome the end to opaqueness.
You are quite the optimist today.
 
Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part II -- Charlotte, a National Treasure or sede vaca

I think both of those statements miss the essential point: how to put the most people into a position in which they can create wealth. That's why opportunity is so important. We don't want to just shave down the bumps to fill in the ruts. We want to give the greatest number of people the resources where they can then use their own genius to think up and execute the next world-changing ideas.

If you shrink the pool of discoverers, capital has nothing worthwhile to invest in. That's why inequality, aside from all the moral considerations, is inefficient.

The key word in this post is execute.

Let me just ask a general question, but I think you know where I'm going with this: Do you ever watch "Shark Tank" on ABC?
 
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