2012 Presidential Election Part 4

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part 4

So, Romney lied about the binders? Seriously?

 

[Rover]

Here's some hope for you Obamaphiles....traditional metrics for past elections contested by a sitting President running for re-election might not apply in this election due to a fundamental shift over the past four years in the relationship between the government and its citizens.

All this is interesting but a lot of blah blah blah. Look at it this way. Since the advent of modern polling in the mid 30's, we've had 4 elections maybe where an incumbent ran with a unemployment rate over 7%. 1936, 1980, 1984 and 1992. The final score of the incumbents? 2 out of 4 won. Conclusions to draw from this? Not many.

Now look at the flip side. Demographics. Mittens has to get a higher % of the "white vote" than Bush I did against the hapless Dukakis to win the election. That's a pretty tall order, given his weakness amongst younger voters(and by that I mean from the 40's down to 18 years old) and white women. Now I'm sure somebody will post a snapshot poll taken after the first debate showing Mittens closing the gender gap, but who really thinks that's true?

Bottom line is all Obama needs is for his people to show up. When they didn't last election, the country got The Boner in a position of leadership. Does the Democratic coaltion really want a country run by Itch, the Boner and Mittens? I don't know, but I'd be very surprised if these people don't show up on or before election day via early voting.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part 4

MSNBC Morning Joe went through the polls this morning and it's all Romney all the time. Biggest ones were the new Gallup National had Romney up by 4 and they're tied in Wisconsin. Just last month Obama was up 11 in Wisconsin.

Romney's a lock.

 

[busterman62]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part 4

Obama called it a terrorist act from the get-go.

Others disagree

We rate the statement Half True

I thought RMaddow was going to stroke out last night over this

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part 4

All this talk of binders is one of the stupidest things I've seen in a campaign in a long time. The guy, by any measure, was very progressive in hiring women, filling I think I read half of his cabinet with women, the highest percentage in the country. But, since there's no substance to attack here, they have to try to play off an innocuous word Romney used. Just another sign of the decay of discourse in this country.

 

[Rover]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part 4

Question for all pundits out there. If two GOP leaning polling outfits show this:

Florida: Obama 47%, Romney 44% (Newsmax/Zogby)

Ohio: Obama 49%, Romney 48% (Rasmussen)

And this had to have been conducted before the full effect of Tuesday's debate.....where is Romney "surging" again? Shouldn't a Newsmax commissioned poll have him at least tied in a state he's doomed if he doesn't win?

 

[Rover]

All this talk of binders is one of the stupidest things I've seen in a campaign in a long time. The guy, by any measure, was very progressive in hiring women, filling I think I read half of his cabinet with women, the highest percentage in the country. But, since there's no substance to attack here, they have to try to play off an innocuous word Romney used. Just another sign of the decay of discourse in this country.

Sooo....where were you again when "you didn't build that" got taken out of context. Look Bob, I think the abbreviation for this statement is TFB. See if you can figure it out but the T stands for Too and the B stands for bad. The facts also show Romney lied about asking for that binder of his to be put together. It was created before he came into office and not by him in any way, shape, or form.

Unless, of course, its a different binder of women he's talking about and he was thumbing through Penthouse or something....

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part 4

All this talk of binders is one of the stupidest things I've seen in a campaign in a long time. The guy, by any measure, was very progressive in hiring women, filling I think I read half of his cabinet with women, the highest percentage in the country. But, since there's no substance to attack here, they have to try to play off an innocuous word Romney used. Just another sign of the decay of discourse in this country.

No he wasn't. A women's group forced him into hiring women for his cabinet. It wasn't his idea. He lied.

I could care less about the use of words. He lied about why he hired the women in the first place.

 

[geezer]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part 4

Obama called it a terrorist act from the get-go. No amount of spin is going to change the public record. Furthermore, even better was Obama's solemn but forceful condemnation right to Romney's face about how he was the one greeting the caskets with the families, thus making the Mittwit's ridiculous political posturing downright treasonous.
**

My gosh, didn't we explain this to you two days ago? Or are you basing your whole case for Obama being in control of foreign policy on a singular use of the word "terror" in the Rose Garden meet & greet while going on to describe for two weeks how the murders in Benghazi were actually nothing more than an exceptionally spiteful movie review?
COME ON Rover. I know you're not actually this stupid. This has all been well documented. You've got to be trolling us here.

Having said that, of course, I've seen no evidence that "Mitt" Romney has any clue about how to deal with these problems, other than build a zillion ships we can't afford and send them over there to patrol. So we're better off in this case voting for the experience and crossing our fingers that he learned something from getting caught with his pants down on Libya.

Politifact gives Obama half credit, saying he accidently used the word "terror" while talking about the movie review, before spending two weeks looking for his *** with both hands and a flashlight. So if you want to hang your hat on that, I guess go right ahead. The fact of his incompetency remains.

 

[geezer]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part 4

Question for all pundits out there. If two GOP leaning polling outfits show this:

Florida: Obama 47%, Romney 44% (Newsmax/Zogby)

Ohio: Obama 49%, Romney 48% (Rasmussen)

And this had to have been conducted before the full effect of Tuesday's debate.....where is Romney "surging" again? Shouldn't a Newsmax commissioned poll have him at least tied in a state he's doomed if he doesn't win?

Pay no attention to Scooby Doo. Romney peaked a week ago, and has moved on to planning his memoirs. No sweat.

 

[Rover]

My gosh, didn't we explain this to you two days ago? Or are you basing your whole case for Obama being in control of foreign policy on a singular use of the word "terror" in the Rose Garden meet & greet while going on to describe for two weeks how the murders in Benghazi were actually nothing more than an exceptionally spiteful movie review?
COME ON Rover. I know you're not actually this stupid. This has all been well documented. You've got to be trolling us here.

Having said that, of course, I've seen no evidence that "Mitt" Romney has any clue about how to deal with these problems, other than build a zillion ships we can't afford and send them over there to patrol. So we're better off in this case voting for the experience and crossing our fingers that he learned something from getting caught with his pants down on Libya.

Geezer, my honest to goodness take on Benghazi is this. I don't think they had a clear idea of what exactly was going on. I also think it took several weeks to sort out, and in the meantime admin people gave info that turned out not to be true. Far from a deliberate pattern to deceive, I chalk it up to trying to avoid being accused of a coverup so they put info out too early. This isn't much different than the widely successful Bin Laden raid, where they also put info out as they got it (or so it seemed to me) and then had to revise.

What I'm most curious about and I don't think I've seen answered is why the US ambassador was stationed at a consulate, which by definition I believe gets less security, than an embassy.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part 4

No he wasn't. A women's group forced him into hiring women for his cabinet. It wasn't his idea. He lied.

I could care less about the use of words. He lied about why he hired the women in the first place.

Oh, that's right. Romney lies about everything and your Obama is faultless. But, nice dodge as always about how your folks having a hissy fit about Romney using the word "binders" shows a huge amount of pettiness and how much they still want to avoid talking about substance like Obama's record.

 

[geezer]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part 4

Geezer, my honest to goodness take on Benghazi is this. I don't think they had a clear idea of what exactly was going on. I also think it took several weeks to sort out.

This is true. And I really hope they are addressing the embarrassing blind spots because the lack of clarity will go a long way toward emboldening people that would love nothing more than to kill our diplomats, IMO.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part 4

Oh, that's right. Romney lies about everything and your Obama is faultless. But, nice dodge as always about how your folks having a hissy fit about Romney using the word "binders" shows a huge amount of pettiness and how much they still want to avoid talking about substance like Obama's record.

In fact, the story is a lie.

Romney wasn’t concerned about the lack of women in government as he was forming his cabinet, and he didn’t ask women’s groups for the binders to help him out. Women’s groups were concerned about the issue even before the gubernatorial elections, so they put together binders and then gave them to Romney after he was elected.

http://elections.americablog.com/2012/10/romneys-binder-full-of-women-story-was-a-lie.html

That's one of about a thousand sources I could cite.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part 4

http://elections.americablog.com/2012/10/romneys-binder-full-of-women-story-was-a-lie.html

That's one of about a thousand sources I could cite.

I'm sure you do have a thousand handpicked sources you are so obsessed about Romney.

Now if you want substance, there's plenty of more accurate info than some lefty blog you follow:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-17/binders-full-of-women-show-romney-knows-how-to-hire.html

You really should get beyond your lefty echo chamber sometime.

How is Romney supposed to hire women, or anyone, before he's elected? So of course the womens groups approached him first, because they approached him before he was in a position to hire anybody. Common sense, if you choose to engage it, can be your friend. And once elected, he acted on it. His lieutenant governor for four years was one of a number of high profile positions he filled with women. You have no leg to stand on. Facts, if you choose to engage them, can be your friend.

 

[geezer]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part 4

I don't know the story behind it, but I love the phrase.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part 4

You really should get beyond your lefty echo chamber sometime.

Righties have an echo chamber. Lefties have a chorale.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part 4

My echo chamber? Whatever dude.

Here's some more echo on Romney's lie.

Not a true story.

What actually happened was that in 2002 -- prior to the election, not even knowing yet whether it would be a Republican or Democratic administration -- a bipartisan group of women in Massachusetts formed MassGAP to address the problem of few women in senior leadership positions in state government. There were more than 40 organizations involved with the Massachusetts Women's Political Caucus (also bipartisan) as the lead sponsor.

They did the research and put together the binder full of women qualified for all the different cabinet positions, agency heads, and authorities and commissions. They presented this binder to Governor Romney when he was elected.

I have written about this before, in various contexts; tonight I've checked with several people directly involved in the MassGAP effort who confirm that this history as I've just presented it is correct -- and that Romney's claim tonight, that he asked for such a study, is false.

I will write more about this later, but for tonight let me just make a few quick additional points. First of all, according to MassGAP and MWPC, Romney did appoint 14 women out of his first 33 senior-level appointments, which is a reasonably impressive 42 percent. However, as I have reported before, those were almost all to head departments and agencies that he didn't care about -- and in some cases, that he quite specifically wanted to not really do anything. None of the senior positions Romney cared about -- budget, business development, etc. -- went to women.

Secondly, a UMass-Boston study found that the percentage of senior-level appointed positions held by women actually declined throughout the Romney administration, from 30.0% prior to his taking office, to 29.7% in July 2004, to 27.6% near the end of his term in November 2006. (It then began rapidly rising when Deval Patrick took office.)

Third, note that in Romney's story as he tells it, this man who had led and consulted for businesses for 25 years didn't know any qualified women, or know where to find any qualified women. So what does that say?

http://blog.thephoenix.com/BLOGS/talkingpolitics/archive/2012/10/16/mind-the-binder.aspx

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part 4

So Romney didn't care about who his lieutenant governor for four years was? More hilarious political drivel from you Scooby. You sure do try though to make something out of nothing. And you continue to hammer on Obama's talking points, regardless of how inaccurate some may be.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2012 Presidential Election Part 4

So Romney didn't care about who his lieutenant governor for four years was? More hilarious political drivel from you Scooby. You sure do try though to make something out of nothing. And you continue to hammer on Obama's talking points, regardless of how inaccurate some may be.

Enjoy your 20% tax cut. I know I'm going to.