2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

[Handyman]

Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

Is it though? I honestly don't know. I'd love to see some polls.

TARP "worked" too, but I doubt it's popular now. Ditto the stimulus.

TARP is different because of who received it. Most people, myself included, were in favor of letting the banks collapse due to their greed and their cornholing of the economy. Since the banks basically sat on the TARP money anyways to improve their bottom line then paid it back I really wish we had let them even though it would have caused a huge depression.

As for the auto industry, especially General Motors, they are sort of a national symbol. You let them fail and any consumer confidence left goes right down the toilet...and not just in cars but in everything. The trade deficit would have gone through the roof. One of the editors of The Economist was was on Real Time making the point that the auto bailout is what truly saved the economy and that if the government had let them fail the effects would have been a massive disaster. Now GM is on the rise, the auto companies are hiring again and things have slowly turned around.

That is why the auto bailout is not as hated anymore. TARP helped no one but the bankers, the auto bailout is seen as helping everyone.

(not saying I agree or disagree)

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

TARP is different because of who received it. Most people, myself included, were in favor of letting the banks collapse due to their greed and their cornholing of the economy. Since the banks basically sat on the TARP money anyways to improve their bottom line then paid it back I really wish we had let them even though it would have caused a huge depression.

As for the auto industry, especially General Motors, they are sort of a national symbol. You let them fail and any consumer confidence left goes right down the toilet...and not just in cars but in everything. The trade deficit would have gone through the roof. One of the editors of The Economist was was on Real Time making the point that the auto bailout is what truly saved the economy and that if the government had let them fail the effects would have been a massive disaster. Now GM is on the rise, the auto companies are hiring again and things have slowly turned around.

That is why the auto bailout is not as hated anymore. TARP helped no one but the bankers, the auto bailout is seen as helping everyone.

(not saying I agree or disagree)

You're all making arguments in favor of the bailout. Great. I'm not trying to get into that.

The bolded is what I'm concerned with. It seems to be an article of faith that the bailout is now pretty popular, enough so to negatively impact Romney's chances. I've said I'm unconvinced by that, given its high unpopularity at the time, and the fact that many of Obama's programs have not grown more popular with time, such as the health care bill or the stimulus.

So, really, it's just a question. Is there polling showing the bailout to be more popular now?

Instead of a response to that question, I get a bizarre response from Scooby talking about "right wingers" and an editorial by a guy who used to regularly debate Skip Bayless from Priceless, both of which are all well and good, yet no one seems to have actually answered the question.

 

[Handyman]

Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

I havent seen any polls, but I very rarely hear people attack the auto bailout anymore unlike TARP unless it is a political rally. I think the average idiot just doesnt pay it any mind anymore.

 

[Rover]

Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

I have not found any recent polling regarding the auto bailout. It was unpopular 3 years ago, but that was before people knew it was going to be successful. As victory has a thousand fathers and defeat is an orphan, I'm guessing a lot of the "No's" a few years ago would be "we were behind this all along" now.

From GWB himself: " 'I'd do it again,' Bush told thousands of the nation's auto dealers, explaining approving a $700 billion bailout fund used to rescue banks, insurers and automakers. 'I didn't want there to be 21 percent unemployment.'

"Bush said he believes in the free market and under normal conditions, automakers and other businesses should have been allowed to fail.

" 'If you make a bad decision, you ought to pay' Bush said. 'Sometimes, circumstances get in the way of philosophy.' "

But in the end you're asking the wrong question. Poll nationally and the country as a whole has consistantly favored Roe v Wade by about 2 to 1. Yet the GOP is still firmly anti-choice. Why? Under the hopes that a subset of the voters will be motived by their position while the rest really won't care. Now apply this to the bailout. Who really has a vested interest in this policy? The white working class voters who make up the backbone of actual support (as opposed to financial support) of the Republican party in crucial Rust Belt swing states. Romney cannot win the Presidency realistically without winning either MI, OH, or PA. One wonders how many of those voters either would have lost jobs, or knew a friend, neighbor or family member who would have lost their job, had the US auto industry gone bankrupt as The Mittster advocated.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

I happen to be in Wichita, KS on business right now, and just yesterday evening I heard a radio ad for a local Ford dealership who was advertising along the lines of, "buy a vehicle built by American workers and not federal tax dollars."

That tells me that at least some people think that the auto bailouts are still unpopular with at least some portion of the country.

 

[amherstblackbear]

Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

It's too bad Huntsman was such a *****y campaigner. Everyone talks about bailouts - noone (left) talks about too big to fail.

That's the real problem. Conservatives decry redistribution, citing the problem of moral hazard . . . there's no better example of moral hazard than an industry that knows it will not be allowed to fail. And make no mistake: despite all the election year posturing about bailouts, the underlying problem has only worsened. The only thing that will be different about the next banking crisis will be the messaging (nobody's going to use the b-word).

 

[amherstblackbear]

Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

It does appear that some greater GOP powers out there are attempting to rig results.

That's been the funniest thing about the GOP primary. For all the carping about election fraud, it's pretty funny to see the Republican Party working so vigorously to prove its point.

 

[Rimbaud]

Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

It's too bad Huntsman was such a *****y campaigner. Everyone talks about bailouts - noone (left) talks about too big to fail.

That's the real problem. Conservatives decry redistribution, citing the problem of moral hazard . . . there's no better example of moral hazard than an industry that knows it will not be allowed to fail. And make no mistake: despite all the election year posturing about bailouts, the underlying problem has only worsened. The only thing that will be different about the next banking crisis will be the messaging (nobody's going to use the b-word).

Barack? Barbados? Beluga? Barrister? Banister? Bunny? Balls? Bereft? Bile? Bunt? Blubber? Blabber? Bladder? Bolder?

 

[walrus]

Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

I happen to be in Wichita, KS on business right now, and just yesterday evening I heard a radio ad for a local Ford dealership who was advertising along the lines of, "buy a vehicle built by American workers and not federal tax dollars."

That tells me that at least some people think that the auto bailouts are still unpopular with at least some portion of the country.

I'll guarantee their are alot of folks who won't buy GM as a result of the bailout. I do believe that will tail off as time goes on but while still fresh in the memory its(the bailout) is a factor.
Not sure how GM is doing in the US but it rocks in China

 

[Rover]

Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

GM has retaken the top spot as best selling car maker in the world. Clearly somebody is buying their product.

Back to the politics though, this stance of his easily fits the narrative on Romney, which is he's the candidate of big money GOP corporate donors who doesn't understand middle class struggles. A buyout specialist views bankrupcy as a tool of his trade. An assembly line worker views bankrupcy as a one way ticket to long term unemployment and financial ruin. In hard hit states like Michigan or Ohio, one has to wonder if telling Joe Sixpack he should have lost his job is going to win over his vote.

 

[Twitch Boy]

Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

I happen to be in Wichita, KS on business right now, and just yesterday evening I heard a radio ad for a local Ford dealership who was advertising along the lines of, "buy a vehicle built by American workers and not federal tax dollars."

That tells me that at least some people think that the auto bailouts are still unpopular with at least some portion of the country.

Ford itself has tried to use the fact that they didn't take the bailout in commercials, and there was a big flap when they were told they couldn't.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

I happen to be in Wichita, KS on business right now, and just yesterday evening I heard a radio ad for a local Ford dealership who was advertising along the lines of, "buy a vehicle built by American workers and not federal tax dollars."

That tells me that at least some people think that the auto bailouts are still unpopular with at least some portion of the country.

It tells me that when people hear "American workers" they pound their chests and when they hear "gubbmint" they say, "That gol'durned gubbmint!," the same as they have for the last hundred years or more.

It has zero to do with policy. Just evergreen rhetorical cliches. White hat. Black hat.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

That tells me that at least some people think that the auto bailouts are still unpopular with at least some portion of the country.

Yes. It's called the competition.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

I happen to be in Wichita, KS on business right now, and just yesterday evening I heard a radio ad for a local Ford dealership who was advertising along the lines of, "buy a vehicle built by American workers and not federal tax dollars."

I'd like to see them try that in the twin cities. Ford would lose sales faster than you can say 'government motors'...the average person here smells extreme positions a mile away.

The bolded is what I'm concerned with. It seems to be an article of faith that the bailout is now pretty popular, enough so to negatively impact Romney's chances. I've said I'm unconvinced by that, given its high unpopularity at the time, and the fact that many of Obama's programs have not grown more popular with time, such as the health care bill or the stimulus.

So, really, it's just a question. Is there polling showing the bailout to be more popular now?

I think its quite clear nobody has a poll.

But IMO its safe to say its a nonissue everywhere that's not solid red...and in Michigan, I wouldn't have wanted to have made a case to 'let Detroit go bankrupt'.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

Barack? Barbados? Beluga? Barrister? Banister? Bunny? Balls? Bereft? Bile? Bunt? Blubber? Blabber? Bladder? Bolder?

Boner. /8-year-old humor

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

But IMO its safe to say its a nonissue everywhere that's not solid red...and in Michigan, I wouldn't have wanted to have made a case to 'let Detroit go bankrupt'.

But I'd argue a non issue is great news for Romney. Just a few pages back in this thread, it was going to be a millstone around his neck. Now it's a non issue? I think he'll take that.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

But I'd argue a non issue is great news for Romney. Just a few pages back in this thread, it was going to be a millstone around his neck. Now it's a non issue? I think he'll take that.

I could see that. Personally I think the auto bailout would be a rounding error in most states. Yet unless Santorum implodes, it should make a huge difference in MI.

 

[joecct]

Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

GM has retaken the top spot as best selling car maker in the world. Clearly somebody is buying their product.

Whatever product the public is buying, it's not the Volt.

 

[geezer]

Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

GM sells more cars in China than in the US, and many times what Ford does. They took a hit in the US over the "government motors" mess, but they don't really care in the big picture. Very little of their business, manufacturing or selling, is done here. Which is probably a good bet to make.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

GM sells more cars in China than in the US, and many times what Ford does. They took a hit in the US over the "government motors" mess, but they don't really care in the big picture. Very little of their business, manufacturing or selling, is done here. Which is probably a good bet to make.

But like all major corporations, the money they make in foreign countries will likely never see US soil. You still need to have a strong base in the home country where you're making money.