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2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

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Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

Kepler said:
A lot of us notice and care. It was the reason America was founded with a separation of church and state in the first place -- the wholesale slaughters of the 16th and 17th centuries in divided Christian Europe. When a religion gains the tools of coercion, it uses them. The solution is to let people have their freedom of individual conscience but not let them impose on others who differ from them. And that's all liberals are asking for. Don't want an abortion? Don't have one.
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Thank you for that irrelevant exegesis on religious intolerance from 6 centuries ago. I doubt there's any real chance for religion to "use the tools of coercian" in 21st century America. Besides, what you call "tools of coercian," others call faith. The issue is not the individual decision to have an abortion. The issue is the federal government requiring individuals and institutions which consider abortion a sin to pay for it. You and His Magnificence and the rest of the libs apparantly think the religious freedom clause of the First Amendment is a technicality.
 
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

Bob Gray said:
Your and my understanding of the health benefits and risks of contraceptives are quite different. I'll leave it at that. But to ram this down peoples' throats that they have to provide it free is radical, especially in like of how other very basic health care staples aren't free. Basically nothing else in healthcare is free. You pay at least a copay if not more for basic things like a physical, teeth checkup, etc. But, this is free, when some people object to it. Yup, you and your radical Obama is at it again under the guise of moderation that many people are fooled by.
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The free vs. not free is an entirely different topic.
 
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

Old Pio said:
Thank you for that irrelevant exegesis on religious intolerance from 6 centuries ago. I doubt there's any real chance for religion to "use the tools of coercian" in 21st century America. Besides, what you call "tools of coercian," others call faith. The issue is not the individual decision to have an abortion. The issue is the federal government requiring individuals and institutions which consider abortion a sin to pay for it. You and His Magnificence and the rest of the libs apparantly think the religious freedom clause of the First Amendment is a technicality.
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Yet that same institution can spend money in the public square campaigning against the right for atheist homosexuals to marry?

Really?

So what I gather from you and Bob is that when the Catholics do it it's alright. But when the rest of society does then it's a problem.
 
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

Kepler said:
A lot of us notice and care. It was the reason America was founded with a separation of church and state in the first place -- the wholesale slaughters of the 16th and 17th centuries in divided Christian Europe. When a religion gains the tools of coercion, it uses them. The solution is to let people have their freedom of individual conscience but not let them impose on others who differ from them. And that's all liberals are asking for. Don't want an abortion? Don't have one.
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I can't buy into this line of reasoning. All laws are impositions. Laws are the citizens coming together to say, "The majority (or represented majority) of us believe that our society would be better off if we all followed these rules. Therefore, EVERYONE has to follow these rules."

If the "don't have one" standard were applied consistently, why would anything be illegal? Don't like prostitution? Gambling? Drugs? Speeding? Just don't do them yourself, right? And pay no attention when others do. If that were the guiding principle, then the only law you would need would be "don't violate the constitutional rights of others." Everything else would be allowed.
 
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

ScoobyDoo said:
Yet that same institution can spend money in the public square campaigning against the right for atheist homosexuals to marry?

Really?

So what I gather from you and Bob is that when the Catholics do it it's alright. But when the rest of society does then it's a problem.
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A very model of muddled thinking. I'd try harder to make myself understood, but I understand how my stupidity makes that nearly impossible.
 
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

Old Pio said:
A very model of muddled thinking. I'd try harder to make myself understood, but I understand how my stupidity makes that nearly impossible.
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It's good that you admit it, now if only we could remove the feces you have for a brain and replace it with a clue.
 
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

Bob Gray said:
Don't want a murder, don't do one. Oh, wait, but someone might do it to you.
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There is consensus that murder is murder. There isn't consensus that abortion is murder.

...which doesn't mean you can't hold that conviction, regardless whether its based on religious doctrine, on some humanistic scheme, or even just your gut. And it doesn't mean that you can't work to build political support for that view.

But until you do, it won't have the force of law. Religious conviction doesn't supercede civil law, any more than civil law can or should restrict religious faith.
 
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

Priceless said:
We're slightly more civilized here, but only slightly. Let's ask civil rights workers like Andrew Goodman or Emmett Till or Matthew Shepard how civil rights activists are treated here in America. Oh wait, you can't ask them...
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The Matthew Shepard myth enhanced. He was a "civil rights worker?" And presumably killed because of that activism? Same for Emmett Till? Their deaths were repulsive enough without the mythologizing.
 
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Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

Priceless said:
We're slightly more civilized here, but only slightly. Let's ask civil rights workers like Andrew Goodman or Emmett Till or Matthew Shepard how civil rights activists are treated here in America. Oh wait, you can't ask them...
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You're digging yourself deeper here. Most people here condemns things like what happened to Matthew Shepard. Whereas in your typical Middle Eastern country, when Christians get killed, there is widespread rejoicing, with people chanting that God is Great. You really should stop before you make yourself look even more foolish.
 
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

One thing is inarguable: His Wonderfulness is a man of his most recent conviction.
 
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

Old Pio said:
One thing is inarguable: His Wonderfulness is a man of his most recent conviction.
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What, are you bailing on the "Deadmeat" nickname since you realize you're now relying on the overcooked leftovers in the Republican primary?
 
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

bronconick said:
What, are you bailing on the "Deadmeat" nickname since you realize you're now relying on the overcooked leftovers in the Republican primary?
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Just stretching my legs. Besides, "Deadmeat" (as I've posted) is the name John Kass of the Tribune gave him and my preference is to use something of my own creation. No, I'm not thrilled about the GOP choices. But like enthusiastic inner city Democrats, I'd vote for a yellow dog before I'd vote for His Remarkableness.
 
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Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

Bob Gray said:
You're digging yourself deeper here. Most people here condemns things like what happened to Matthew Shepard. Whereas in your typical Middle Eastern country, when Christians get killed, there is widespread rejoicing, with people chanting that God is Great. You really should stop before you make yourself look even more foolish.
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Right. No one celebrates what happened to Mathew Shepard. I wish I lived in your fantasy world.
 
Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

Priceless said:
Right. No one celebrates what happened to Mathew Shepard. I wish I lived in your fantasy world.
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That's not what he said. Why can't you just make your point without the hysterical hyperbole?
 
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Re: 2012 Elections Pt II: Bachmann Turned Me Into a Newt! A Newt?

Am I the only one who doesn't see a problem with ANY of the following:

1. Obama asking for this mandate.
2. The Catholic church protesting it.
3. Obama "reversing" his course but still managing for birth control to be covered.
 
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