2012 Elections in 3-D!

[Slap Shot]

Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

So by the Florida law, if Zimmerman chased Martin and Martin felt threatened...

Get real. Zimmerman was the victim of a life threatening fight. The fight was so brutal that the EMTs elected to have him ride to the station in the back of a cop car instead of an ambulance. So brutal that when he arrived at the police station his shirt is tucked in, his clothing is no longer torn, his collar isn't even stretched. His fight for life was so brutal in fact that all the grass stains jumped right off of his jacket and the blood stains vanished right off of his shirt. I'm surprised he's still alive.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

Funny that you imply that I might be conservative as almost everyone calls me a liberal (as if it's a bad thing).

I wasn't. I was looking for an analogy that would also further my Master Plan of poking Pio in his eye-O. Now, shh, he may still be in these woods. I'll release some scent if you stand over there and blow this pio call.

 

[Old Pio]

Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

A diabetic's.

Suppose Trayvon had bought a box of Sheik Ultra Thins instead of Skittles. Do you think the MSM would inform us of that purchase in virtually every discussion of the event? Skittles is relevant, rubbers ain't?

 

[FreshFish]

Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

I read a news story yesterday that included interviews with FL legislators who drafted the bill. They said that the police and prosecutors are not interpreting the bill correctly.

When lawmakers in the Sunshine State passed the bill in April 2005 after heavy lobbying by the National Rifle Association, it was supposed to extend the right of self-defense that people had in their homes to places like hotel rooms, trailers and cars, said an ex-state senator who co-sponsored the measure.....“It’s being misinterpreted by law enforcement, and many of the crimes that should be prosecuted are not being prosecuted.....It was not intended for you to take a gun and run somebody down and kill them."

 

[Priceless]

Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

I read a news story yesterday that included interviews with FL legislators who drafted the bill. They said that the police and prosecutors are not interpreting the bill correctly.

Gosh...a law being misinterpreted by those meant to enforce it? That's never happened before. Good thing this wasn't something important that involves life or death.
Maybe before passing such laws, the legislators should take a moment to clarify their legislation so their laws aren't "misinterpreted" by LEOs and prosecutors.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

I read a news story yesterday that included interviews with FL legislators who drafted the bill. They said that the police and prosecutors are not interpreting the bill correctly.

Unintended consequences? I'm shocked, SHOCKED!!!

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

I read a news story yesterday that included interviews with FL legislators who drafted the bill. They said that the police and prosecutors are not interpreting the bill correctly.

interesting find. Not sure but these cosponsors don't sound to sincere to me.

The two clauses under the law:

776.012 Use of force in defense of person

A person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony.

776.013 Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm (which I won't list here but its on wiki)

The key point is that either 776.012 or 776.013 has to occur...not both. In which case, its ok to kill someone if its is necessary to prevent 'great bodily harm' to himself or herself or another or to prevent 'the imminent commission of a forcible felony' whether youre in your home or no. The legislator appears to be retroactively changing the meaning of the bill based on the publicity and this is a terrible law.

Soo...riddle me this batman. As 'justifyable' homicides doubled over the last decade...why has nothing been done to fix its prosecution?

 

[Priceless]

Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

Soo...riddle me this batman. As 'justifyable' homicides doubled over the last decade...why has nothing been done to fix its prosecution?

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/3Sg9ysbTfy0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>.

 

[amherstblackbear]

Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

Surprised that we haven't heard the NRA weigh in on behalf of conceal and carry for minors.

Stand your ground does seem to apply here. It's just the wrong guy that got the bullet.

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

I'm surprised nobody has pitched Armed Gangstas vs Armed Rednecks as a reality show. "It's the Most Dangerous Game... with the most dangerous people in America."

 

[FreshFish]

Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

I'm surprised nobody has pitched Armed Gangstas vs Armed Rednecks as a reality show. "It's the Most Dangerous Game... with the most dangerous people in America."

Actually, there was a series on Spike TV that had something very close.....not sure if I can find any reference to it.

 

[Priceless]

Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

My mother is anxious to buy tickets for this Mega Millions lottery tomorrow. Since we live under the thumb of Socialism, they estimate the jackpot will only be about $250 million after taxes. Hardly seems worth it.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

Funny that you imply that I might be conservative as almost everyone calls me a liberal (as if it's a bad thing).

I get a lot of that too....perhaps to a progressive anyone who does not share their world view is a heartless trogdolyte? I'm usually on the liberal side of things as well, except here, apparently....the use of actual data to support a particular point of view perhaps can be quite threatening to some people's ideology!

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

the use of actual data to support a particular point of view perhaps can be quite threatening to some people's ideology!

You do recognize that everyone feels that way, though, right? I remember a funny conversation I had a few years ago with two coworkers, one to the right of Genghis Khan and one to the left of Lenin. Each said, almost in unison, "well, I understand there will be differences on policy because conservatives (liberals) see things from the rational side while liberals (conservatives) see things from the emotional side." They both stopped dead and looked at each other. It was a great moment where you could actually see them both escaping from a thought-terminating cliche.

When I left grad school and went to work in Boston I somehow overnight stopped getting classified as a "conservative" and started getting classified as a "liberal." Now, it is possible that I changed completely overnight. Or...

 

[joecct]

Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

You do recognize that everyone feels that way, though, right? I remember a funny conversation I had a few years ago with two coworkers, one to the right of Genghis Khan and one to the left of Lenin. Each said, almost in unison, "well, I understand there will be differences on policy because conservatives (liberals) see things from the rational side while liberals (conservatives) see things from the emotional side." They both stopped dead and looked at each other. It was a great moment where you could actually see them both escaping from a thought-terminating cliche.

When I left grad school and went to work in Boston I somehow overnight stopped getting classified as a "conservative" and started getting classified as a "liberal." Now, it is possible that I changed completely overnight. Or...

Sort of like this?
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/SK1V-fYKrc4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

In Boston, if you're not from there, you're not welcome - at least until 3 generations have passed. That is one provincial city!

 

[LynahFan]

Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

When I left grad school and went to work in Boston I somehow overnight stopped getting classified as a "conservative" and started getting classified as a "liberal." Now, it is possible that I changed completely overnight. Or...

Heh. I had a friend growing up in East Tennessee who fancied himself to be quite the enlightened liberal, until he left home for Carleton College (near Minneapolis). He transferred after 1 semester because he hated being the only conservative guy on campus.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

You do recognize that everyone feels that way, though, right?

Empirically, no.

I've had more than one person say they don't care what the evidence shows, they know they are right anyway (see people who say that evolution doesn't really have any evidence: "God" merely placed fossils into rocks as a test of our faith; fossils do not "really" indicate evidence of anything other than creationism).

In psychology there is something known as cognitive dissonance in which, the more evidence is presented to challenge a belief, the more fervently the belief is held.

So, no, I do not recognize that "everyone" feels that way, and based on both scientific literature and personal experience, I'd say there is a substantial minority of people who clearly do not feel that way.*

For example, from what I've read, most of the left-wing followers of the SCOTUS (e.g., Jeffrey Toobin, Linda Greenhouse) did not take the idea of a Constitutional challenge to PPACA seriously (famously, when asked about its constitutionality, Nancy Pelosi supposedly responded "are you kidding me?" and that was her entire answer to the question); before this week's oral arguments, they scoffed at the very notion of it somehow not passing Constitutional muster and didn't even respond to the actual arguments against its constitutionality.


* while I sometimes enjoy jousting with you, I also recognize that you have put some thought into forming your beliefs and I would not place you in this category.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

I get a lot of that too....perhaps to a progressive anyone who does not share their world view is a heartless trogdolyte? I'm usually on the liberal side of things as well, except here, apparently....the use of actual data to support a particular point of view perhaps can be quite threatening to some people's ideology!

I'm called conservative by some liberals and liberal by almost all conservatives.

According to that test thing that was on here about political views a few months back, I was socially liberal, but neo-conservative on foreign policy.

I guess that puts me in the middle, which is how I've always viewed myself. Leaning slightly to the left.

A lot of people want, no, they need to put you in one box or the other so they know if you're always with them or always against them. Gets old...

 

[Kepler]

Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

In psychology there is something known as cognitive dissonance in which, the more evidence is presented to challenge a belief, the more fervently the belief is held.

Not to be pedantic ("too late!"), but that's actually called the Backfire Effect. Cognitive Dissoance is the queasy feeling we get when our assumptions are (briefly) challenged. The Backfire Effect is how we restore our balance by remaining steadfast in our beliefs regardless of the evidence.

Of course, we probably never even see evidence that contradicts our beliefs because of Confirmation Bias. What a piece of work is man...

 

[FreshFish]

Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!

A lot of people want, no, they need to put you in one box or the other so they know if you're always with them or always against them. Gets old...

yeah....while some people say "the enemy of my enemy is my friend," I fervently disagree with that statement. "the enemy of my enemy is no more to be trusted than my enemy is; who knows what will happen with my enemy's enemy if my enemy is vanquished."

I like the analogy of pick-up sports...."sometimes we'll be teammates, sometimes we'll be in opposition....at the end of the day there should be no reason we can't go out and have a beer together once the competition has ended."