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Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!
A racist neighbor?
Every criminal within 20 miles of my house is Scots-Irish. As tempting as it is, I'm not going to draw any conclusion about the wider population.
A racist neighbor?
Every criminal within 20 miles of my house is Scots-Irish. As tempting as it is, I'm not going to draw any conclusion about the wider population.
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Gurtholfin
Guest
Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!
It wasn't my perception that these people might be black, it was a fact that they were. Is it racist to notice facts?
Or is it a copout to not want to notice it? FWIW, I didn't shoot any of them.
It wasn't my perception that these people might be black, it was a fact that they were. Is it racist to notice facts?
Or is it a copout to not want to notice it? FWIW, I didn't shoot any of them.
Kepler
Cornell Big Red
Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!
They all had two legs, too.
Every idiot I've met on this board is a conservative. That doesn't mean all conservatives are idiots.
Do you really not get what's racist about going from your tiny empirical sample to making broad theoretical judgments?
They all had two legs, too.
Every idiot I've met on this board is a conservative. That doesn't mean all conservatives are idiots.
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Priceless
Guest
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Gurtholfin
Guest
Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!
What was broad about it? It was actually quite specific.
I was commenting that I lived in a neighborhood where as a homeowner and parent, you had to keep an eye on people who were walking down your street. And unfortunately, only certain people. Doesn't mean that I feel that way about every black person that I see in other places. I also realize that in other areas, it may be poor white people that you have to keep an eye on.
Why did we have to keep an eye on them? Was it because we were raised in racist households where we were taught to mistrust certain groups? In fact, I was raised in the opposite.
No, it was because over the course of 12 years, we had actual negative experiences with this certain group as did many of our neighbors, and neighbors talk and share experiences and call the cops. You see, experience taught us that a bike could go missing if we don't stand nearby until the people have walked by.
It also taught us that if an unknown car pulled up out front, that a drug deal was about to happen. And it almost ALWAYS did.
Now, maybe I didn't experience a big enough sample, but the occasional salesman that would park on the street waiting for his next call never had another car pull up and exchange something with him. Likewise, the couple walking their dog never went into my garage and stole my kid's bike.
The people who stole the bike (and all the other stuff) didn't do it because I was watching them, I was watching them because they stole the bike (and all the other stuff).
Funny that you imply that I might be conservative as almost everyone calls me a liberal (as if it's a bad thing).
What was broad about it? It was actually quite specific.
I was commenting that I lived in a neighborhood where as a homeowner and parent, you had to keep an eye on people who were walking down your street. And unfortunately, only certain people. Doesn't mean that I feel that way about every black person that I see in other places. I also realize that in other areas, it may be poor white people that you have to keep an eye on.
Why did we have to keep an eye on them? Was it because we were raised in racist households where we were taught to mistrust certain groups? In fact, I was raised in the opposite.
No, it was because over the course of 12 years, we had actual negative experiences with this certain group as did many of our neighbors, and neighbors talk and share experiences and call the cops. You see, experience taught us that a bike could go missing if we don't stand nearby until the people have walked by.
It also taught us that if an unknown car pulled up out front, that a drug deal was about to happen. And it almost ALWAYS did.
Now, maybe I didn't experience a big enough sample, but the occasional salesman that would park on the street waiting for his next call never had another car pull up and exchange something with him. Likewise, the couple walking their dog never went into my garage and stole my kid's bike.
The people who stole the bike (and all the other stuff) didn't do it because I was watching them, I was watching them because they stole the bike (and all the other stuff).
Funny that you imply that I might be conservative as almost everyone calls me a liberal (as if it's a bad thing).
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mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!
I was just using our contrasting povs as ways of looking at the topic differntly...even though they are of the same outcome. Usually a good thing...but when a life is at stake...one really wants to have a more black or white answer.
The Orlando Sentinel version verified by city officials:
"On the rainy night of the shooting, Martin was walking to his father's fiancee's house after buying candy and iced tea at a convenience store.
Zimmerman, a Neighborhood Watch member suspicious because of burglaries, was driving to a grocery store when he saw Martin walking through the gated community, according to the account verified by Bonaparte. He started following the teenager on foot and called police to report a suspicious person, according to a recording authorities released. Zimmerman described Martin as black, acting strangely and perhaps on drugs.
A dispatcher told Zimmerman to stop following Martin and to wait for officers to arrive.
Zimmerman told police that he was walking back to his SUV when Martin approached from behind and asked Zimmerman whether he had a problem. Zimmerman said no. Martin then said, "Well, you do now" and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account Bonaparte confirmed.
Zimmerman told police that he fell and that Martin got on top of him and began slamming his head into the sidewalk. A police report notes that Zimmerman was bleeding from the nose and the back of his head. Zimmerman said he began yelling for help "but no one would help me," according to the incident report.
Martin's family has said it was in fact the teenager shouting, his voice captured on a 911 recording. Their attorneys have an affidavit from his girlfriend saying that at the time of the shooting she was on the phone with Martin, who was worried that he was being followed. She said a man asked Martin what he was doing in the neighborhood before she heard a tussle and lost the connection.
An Orlando TV station interviewed a neighbor, identified only as "John," who said he saw Martin "beating up" Zimmerman. Zimmerman, the man said, called out for help.
The witness said that when he looked outside again, Martin was dead. Zimmerman had shot Martin once in the chest."
The Zimmerman story appears flimsy in my book...the claimed dialog, no warning of firearm, etc. In the end, Zimmerman was damaged goods once the cops first talked to him or not. Pics don't show it. I have a feeling that guilt in this will be obvious one way or the other...the question is whether FL law will allow justice.
I was just using our contrasting povs as ways of looking at the topic differntly...even though they are of the same outcome. Usually a good thing...but when a life is at stake...one really wants to have a more black or white answer.
The Orlando Sentinel version verified by city officials:
"On the rainy night of the shooting, Martin was walking to his father's fiancee's house after buying candy and iced tea at a convenience store.
Zimmerman, a Neighborhood Watch member suspicious because of burglaries, was driving to a grocery store when he saw Martin walking through the gated community, according to the account verified by Bonaparte. He started following the teenager on foot and called police to report a suspicious person, according to a recording authorities released. Zimmerman described Martin as black, acting strangely and perhaps on drugs.
A dispatcher told Zimmerman to stop following Martin and to wait for officers to arrive.
Zimmerman told police that he was walking back to his SUV when Martin approached from behind and asked Zimmerman whether he had a problem. Zimmerman said no. Martin then said, "Well, you do now" and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account Bonaparte confirmed.
Zimmerman told police that he fell and that Martin got on top of him and began slamming his head into the sidewalk. A police report notes that Zimmerman was bleeding from the nose and the back of his head. Zimmerman said he began yelling for help "but no one would help me," according to the incident report.
Martin's family has said it was in fact the teenager shouting, his voice captured on a 911 recording. Their attorneys have an affidavit from his girlfriend saying that at the time of the shooting she was on the phone with Martin, who was worried that he was being followed. She said a man asked Martin what he was doing in the neighborhood before she heard a tussle and lost the connection.
An Orlando TV station interviewed a neighbor, identified only as "John," who said he saw Martin "beating up" Zimmerman. Zimmerman, the man said, called out for help.
The witness said that when he looked outside again, Martin was dead. Zimmerman had shot Martin once in the chest."
The Zimmerman story appears flimsy in my book...the claimed dialog, no warning of firearm, etc. In the end, Zimmerman was damaged goods once the cops first talked to him or not. Pics don't show it. I have a feeling that guilt in this will be obvious one way or the other...the question is whether FL law will allow justice.
Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!
The thing that jumps out at me there is, we go from Zimmerman being told by a dispatcher to stop following Martin and wait, to Zimmerman walking about to his SUV. Why did he leave the SUV, and what did he do? It strains credibility to believe that Martin would walk up to him from behind and ask if he had a problem. Far more likely that Zimmerman approached Martin in an aggressive manner.
Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!
I think it does matter. If you initiated the fight, then I think you could be guilty of assault, and if you subsequently shot the person you assaulted (even if in self-defense at the moment of the shooting) I think you could be guilty of felony murder.
I think it does matter. If you initiated the fight, then I think you could be guilty of assault, and if you subsequently shot the person you assaulted (even if in self-defense at the moment of the shooting) I think you could be guilty of felony murder.
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Almington
Blood Boiling with Rage and Hate
Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!
Exactly, who initiated the confrontation is key and sadly something that we will never actually know.
Exactly, who initiated the confrontation is key and sadly something that we will never actually know.
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Priceless
Guest
Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!
I must have missed the part where they were selling hoodies to capitalize on the tragedy. Or their profiteering by holding a rally in Columbine, despite pleas from the parents not to come.
mookie1995
there's a good buck in that racket.
Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!
they aren't even decent enough to move merchandise!! those two just take the money and pocket it.
they aren't even decent enough to move merchandise!! those two just take the money and pocket it.
Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!
Great. With the timing of all of this, the NRA crazies will be down there during the Frozen Four.
Great. With the timing of all of this, the NRA crazies will be down there during the Frozen Four.
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Priceless
Guest
Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!
On the bright side, you can shoot a few of them and claim you felt threatened.
Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!
Seems the stand your ground law has been pretty much panned by everyone on the thread. A little more about the law:
In Florida, the law has resulted in self-defense claims tripling, with all but one of those killed unarmed. (According to FDLE statistics as reported by CBS; wiki.)
Seems the stand your ground law has been pretty much panned by everyone on the thread. A little more about the law:
In Florida, the law has resulted in self-defense claims tripling, with all but one of those killed unarmed. (According to FDLE statistics as reported by CBS; wiki.)
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duper
Well-known member
Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!
Regular people can far too easily make a mistake about what constitutes a threat.
And here-in lies the entire problem with the law.
Regular people can far too easily make a mistake about what constitutes a threat.
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Priceless
Guest
Re: 2012 Elections in 3-D!
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