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2011-2012 North Dakota Offseason Thread

Re: 2011-2012 North Dakota Offseason Thread

JDUBBS1280 said:
Seems I can't win. If I would have come right out and said UND is getting burnt because they're recruiting non-Minnesotan NTDP players, I would have been called provincial (not that I think that's a bad thing, but many here seem to).

Instead, I point out that the gopher program hasn't had as many issues with decommits from NTDP players (letting people arrive at their own conclusions), and some how that is wrong too.

I'm sorry, I realize that hating on me is rather stylish right now, but I thought there would be at least a few people with enough integrity to resist the urge to pile on and actually engage in what is a great discussion. I guess I was wrong about that. :rolleyes:
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I feel you have been pretty respectable about the debate, but like I said in my earlier post, recruiting strategies doesn't mean success (not saying either is right or wrong). It certainly helps, but this issue has little to do with the Minnesota vs. North Dakota rivalry, which is why people are annoyed you would bring it up. Players leave for different reasons, and it appears as if it is happening more frequently around the NCAA (even if Minnesota strays from that norm).

For example, in 2005, the first round of the NHL draft consisted of eight NCAA players, three going in the top nine, opposed to 2011 where two were taken in the first round (Oleksiak left Northeastern after being drafted), and Tyler Biggs just left Miami after one year (possibly for the CHL). This is much more so a matter of NCAA vs. CHL.
 
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PhatKroger10 said:
I feel you have been pretty respectable about the debate, but like I said in my earlier post, recruiting strategies doesn't mean success (not saying either is right or wrong). It certainly helps, but this issue has little to do with the Minnesota vs. North Dakota rivalry, which is why people are annoyed you would bring it up. Players leave for different reasons, and it appears as if it is happening more frequently around the NCAA (even if Minnesota strays from that norm).

For example, in 2005, the first round of the NHL draft consisted of eight NCAA players, three going in the top nine, opposed to 2011 where two were taken in the first round (Oleksuk left Northeastern after being drafted), and Tyler Biggs just left Miami after one year (possibly for the CHL). This is much more so a matter of NCAA vs. CHL.
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Thank you for the respectful reply. I appreciate it. I do not intend to make this a Minnesota vs North Dakota thing. I just noticed that Minnesota has far less issues with NTDP players decommitting, and UND has had some trouble with that recently.

I was just wondering if there are concrete reasons why Minnesota has much less trouble with this (I think there are), and whether or not UND can take away anything from that? I don't know. Just asking the questions.

I know Don Lucia has taken a few things fromwhat Jerry York has been doing at Boston College (recruiting smaller forwards) and early signs seem to indicate it has been sucessful.
 
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Re: 2011-2012 North Dakota Offseason Thread

Gurtholfin said:
They entice them with this...


Russian.jpg



Really not so hard. ;)
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Nominated for post of the year. :D
 
Re: 2011-2012 North Dakota Offseason Thread

JDUBBS1280 said:
Thank you for the respectful reply. I appreciate it. I do not intend to make this a Minnesota vs North Dakota thing. I just noticed that Minnesota has far less issues with NTDP players decommitting, and UND has had some trouble with that recently.

I was just wondering if there are concrete reasons why Minnesota has much less trouble with this (I think there are), and whether or not UND can take away anything from that? I don't know. Just asking the questions.

I know Don Lucia has taken a few things fromwhat Jerry York has been doing at Boston College (recruiting smaller forwards) and early signs seem to indicate it has been sucessful.
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Minnesota's insular hockey culture has been a boon to the Gophers program as few elite Minnesota players ever ventured from the prescribed model of prep to college via (on occasion) the junior leagues. It is what these players grew up with, feeling an intense loyalty to their district, then high school and eventually college. This exists in the north east as well, but to a much lesser extent. Of course there are cracks now appearing as a some young elite Minnesotans are deciding to try their hand in the CHL (see Bittner and Iverson) but, as of now, they are merely hair-line cracks.

North Dakota recruits far and wide, leaving them more exposed to the greater pull the CHL is exerting on elite American players. Other programs, such as Michigan, have long faced this challenge and defections are almost now becoming routine.

This has nothing to do with what North Dakota is doing wrong. They are, arguably, one of the most storied programs who boast a pro alumni base that can compete with any other program in either the NCAA or CHL. This, instead has everything to do with a changing cultural landscape. Elite American players are no longer solely looking towards the NCAA as the preferred route to the NHL and this is having an impact on college hockey in general.
 
Re: 2011-2012 North Dakota Offseason Thread

MavHockey14 said:
So we may finally be putting it to rest?
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Not yet. There is a vote in June that allows the people the opportunity to have their say. It is thought that if the voters approve keeping the name, the legislature will pass a law to overturn it. It would require a 2/3 majority to do that, and I can't imagine any problem getting the 2/3 majority. I don't know what the polls say about the chances of the name being approved next month - hopefully it won't.
 
Re: 2011-2012 North Dakota Offseason Thread

It will be approved because most people don't really understand the issue. Hopefully the ND Supreme Court will rule the law unconstitutional though. If the law passes, the ND Supreme Court does nothing and the legislature doesn't overturn it I think UND should just disregard the law. There is no penalty for doing so. Or at the very least keep the name "officially" but completely stop using it everywhere and for everything along with requesting other schools, newspapers and/or anything else cease using the name to refer to UND.
 
Re: 2011-2012 North Dakota Offseason Thread

Dirty said:
It will be approved because most people don't really understand the issue. Hopefully the ND Supreme Court will rule the law unconstitutional though. If the law passes, the ND Supreme Court does nothing and the legislature doesn't overturn it I think UND should just disregard the law. There is no penalty for doing so. Or at the very least keep the name "officially" but completely stop using it everywhere and for everything along with requesting other schools, newspapers and/or anything else cease using the name to refer to UND.
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Tricky issue. Even if moves are made as you suggest, it will continue to put UND in a vulnerable position. Boycotts are increasing with S Dak St U backing away and its conference upgrade at risk. That's probably the reason the the alumni foundation is organizing to push the name change. I hope it works out for you guys, but the collateral damage could be overwhelming if you manage to 'win' this fight.
 
Re: 2011-2012 North Dakota Offseason Thread

Which is why you just completely stop using the nickname, letting everyone and their mother know you are doing it. Then you work behind the scenes to be able to officially drop it. I would think doing this would perhaps get the NCAA to remove sanctions as UND will be exhibiting everything they can to disassociate themselves from the nickname which will immensely lower the odds of the Big Sky kicking UND out of the conference. If that doesn't work then just as I said drop the name whether it's legal or not, get off of sanctions and deal with the non-existent legal consequences.
 
Re: 2011-2012 North Dakota Offseason Thread

Dirty said:
Let's try this again:

Just stop responding to him and he'll leave this thread alone. Keep responding and he'll keep replying to you. It's just much easier and quicker to just ignore him as he will then go away. He's the DaveK of the Gopher fanbase, he truly believes what he says no matter how wrong and misguided he is.
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Seriously. Having to see his name in quotes bothers me. Hit the ignore button and let him feed his nonsense to nobody.
 
jnacc said:
Minnesota's insular hockey culture has been a boon to the Gophers program as few elite Minnesota players ever ventured from the prescribed model of prep to college via (on occasion) the junior leagues. It is what these players grew up with, feeling an intense loyalty to their district, then high school and eventually college. This exists in the north east as well, but to a much lesser extent. Of course there are cracks now appearing as a some young elite Minnesotans are deciding to try their hand in the CHL (see Bittner and Iverson) but, as of now, they are merely hair-line cracks.

North Dakota recruits far and wide, leaving them more exposed to the greater pull the CHL is exerting on elite American players. Other programs, such as Michigan, have long faced this challenge and defections are almost now becoming routine.

This has nothing to do with what North Dakota is doing wrong. They are, arguably, one of the most storied programs who boast a pro alumni base that can compete with any other program in either the NCAA or CHL. This, instead has everything to do with a changing cultural landscape. Elite American players are no longer solely looking towards the NCAA as the preferred route to the NHL and this is having an impact on college hockey in general.
Click to expand...

Very interesting take. Thanks for the response.
 
Re: 2011-2012 North Dakota Offseason Thread

Dirty said:
Which is why you just completely stop using the nickname, letting everyone and their mother know you are doing it. Then you work behind the scenes to be able to officially drop it. I would think doing this would perhaps get the NCAA to remove sanctions as UND will be exhibiting everything they can to disassociate themselves from the nickname which will immensely lower the odds of the Big Sky kicking UND out of the conference. If that doesn't work then just as I said drop the name whether it's legal or not, get off of sanctions and deal with the non-existent legal consequences.
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That is what I was wondering once this law came into being. What happenes if UND doesn't follow the law? You upset a bunch of the "purists" but what legal ramifications could there possibly be to violating this law? Zero.
 
Re: 2011-2012 North Dakota Offseason Thread

Tiggsy said:
That is what I was wondering once this law came into being. What happenes if UND doesn't follow the law? You upset a bunch of the "purists" but what legal ramifications could there possibly be to violating this law? Zero.
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There's so many different aspects of opinion, moral values, and options to pursue to resolve the issue. To be honest, I'm kind of sick of hearing about it and am taking the approach, let's just sit back and see what happens. As big of an issue and aspect to the university as it is, I think I'd prefer to see this thread not discuss the matters. I'm much more interested in the recruiting and possibilities for next year opposed to the possibilities of the 'Fighting Sioux' moniker. At this point, it's just beating a dead horse.

On a completely different note, I thought it was pretty cool that Chris Wilkie came out and posted on Twitter, "Just wanted to let everyone know that I will be sticking to my committment to UND after playing at NTDP, can't wait to be a Fighting Sioux!"
 
Re: 2011-2012 North Dakota Offseason Thread

Tiggsy said:
That is what I was wondering once this law came into being. What happenes if UND doesn't follow the law? You upset a bunch of the "purists" but what legal ramifications could there possibly be to violating this law? Zero.
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South Dakota State joining the list is the straw that broke the camels back. The name needs to be retired.
 
Re: 2011-2012 North Dakota Offseason Thread

That is just shocking. Perhaps this explains why he had no interest in the Tech job but really wanted to the MSU job.
 
Re: 2011-2012 North Dakota Offseason Thread

Siouxfaninseattle said:
Wow is right. Could it be because he applied for the MSUM job?
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I think its probably closer to the Hill situation at Minnesota. Get some new blood in there and do some damage in the NCAA Tourney.

Hak may also want to go to a different style of play in the NCHC.

The timing of this coming just after the Coaches Convention is very interesting. Guessing something might of been said down in Florida.
 
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