What's new
By:
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread: Congrats to Meghan Duggan!

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

I defer to all of your collective knowledge on who should win this award; I haven't seen any of the top candidates, aside from those on Cornell (when I saw BC play Stack and Schaus weren't there).

But, as an observer of many sports and the voting for their various awards, I wonder if Agosta, should she make the final three, could possibly lose. She would then be a finalist for all four of her years and, human nature being what it is, would voters be emotionally swayed toward voting for her? A lot of voters for awards, whether they're for sports or for entertainment, engage in a kind of "catch up" mentality. I can imagine some voters would feel bad to have Agosta have to sit through one of these ceremonies a fourth time without winning the thing. If the statistics are close, and no other player is far and away the obvious choice, does Agosta get a leg up out of sentiment? (and I see that Agosta is leading the nation in scoring)

I hasten to add that I'm not saying Agosta should or should not win, just making an observation, and wondering whether the voters will be able to put aside such emotion.
 
Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

PrincetonFan said:
A lot of voters for awards, whether they're for sports or for entertainment, engage in a kind of "catch up" mentality. ... If the statistics are close, and no other player is far and away the obvious choice, does Agosta get a leg up out of sentiment? (and I see that Agosta is leading the nation in scoring)
Click to expand...
That's an interesting topic. I question the use of "catch up" in this case, because that implies that the voters got it wrong and clearly should have given the award to Agosta in the past. No doubt, there are those that look just at stats or watch Agosta play all season who feel that way. However, there weren't many neutral observers at the 2009 Frozen Four that thought Kazmaier voters erred in their choice that season. Did you have a season in mind where the voters chose someone over Agosta where you feel hindsight revealed that was the wrong choice?
 
Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

I want Agosta to win (badly). In the last four seasons (and we aren't done yet) she's put up 289 points (curious to know where she stands among all time players, only one close I can think of is Chu). In her worst season, she still scored more points than Duggan did in her best season. I'll agree that points are only a part the equation, just like conference strength.

Meghan's been a beast all four years of college. Wouldn't it be awful to be a top three each of the 4 years but never the top candidate?


With that said, I don't think the Kaz committee will throw out any surprises.
yawncm.gif
 
Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

RStarr said:
I want Agosta to win (badly). In the last four seasons (and we aren't done yet) she's put up 289 points (curious to know where she stands among all time players, only one close I can think of is Chu).
Click to expand...
Darwitz had 246 points in three seasons (99 games, Agosta's played 128) and got only one top 3 finish. Chu had 284 in 129 games.
 
Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

ARM said:
Darwitz had 246 points in three seasons (99 games, Agosta's played 128) and got only one top 3 finish.
Click to expand...
Whats that break down to in points per game?

And I've been mad at Kaz committee about Nat. I think the committee sucks (hence the 'no surprises' comment). Its probably made up of a bunch of brookyones.
lamev.gif
 
Last edited:
Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

RStarr said:
Whats that break down to in points per game?
Click to expand...
Darwitz is 2.48 PPG; Agosta currently at 2.26. Botterill might be the top, but I'll have to find her numbers.
 
Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

Potter had 327 pts in 134 games for 2.44 PPG.
Botterill had 340 pts in 113 games for 3.01 PPG.
 
Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

RStarr said:
I want Agosta to win (badly). In the last four seasons (and we aren't done yet) she's put up 289 points (curious to know where she stands among all time players, only one close I can think of is Chu). In her worst season, she still scored more points than Duggan did in her best season. I'll agree that points are only a part the equation, just like conference strength.

Meghan's been a beast all four years of college. Wouldn't it be awful to be a top three each of the 4 years but never the top candidate?


With that said, I don't think the Kaz committee will throw out any surprises.
yawncm.gif
Click to expand...

in regard to Agosta points... refer to post from 2 weeks ago on this thread. a significant percentage of those points come against weak teams. piling up 5 points for 'Hurst while beating a 2 win team by 8 goals doesn't necessarily signify a kaz winner IMO. giving the award to the top point scorer based on points only is overlooking the true nature of the award.
 
Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

ARM said:
Potter had 327 pts in 134 games for 2.44 PPG.
Botterill had 340 pts in 113 games for 3.01 PPG.
Click to expand...
That' s out of control! I wonder about AJ Mleczko....
 
Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

BadgerFan11 said:
in regard to Agosta points... refer to post from 2 weeks ago on this thread. a significant percentage of those points come against weak teams. piling up 5 points for 'Hurst while beating a 2 win team by 8 goals doesn't necessarily signify a kaz winner IMO. giving the award to the top point scorer based on points only is overlooking the true nature of the award.
Click to expand...
If you read my post, you'll notice I said points are "only part of the equation, just like conference strength."

While I give Duggan props for playing in "the toughest conference ever known to women's hockey", Duggan has plenty of opportunity to rack up the points against more than few teams in the WCHA.

Don't worry, the Kaz crew won't pick Agosta, for they are simply too square.
 
Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

ARM said:
Potter had 327 pts in 134 games for 2.44 PPG.
Botterill had 340 pts in 113 games for 3.01 PPG.
Click to expand...

Where did you get these numbers. Agosta just passed Julie Chu for most points all time with 289 points. Chu had the record at 285. I think that Agosta will have 300 points and also the record for most goals. She's only 2 goals from breaking that record to.
 
Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

hurstfan87 said:
Where did you get these numbers. Agosta just passed Julie Chu for most points all time with 289 points. Chu had the record at 285. I think that Agosta will have 300 points and also the record for most goals. She's only 2 goals from breaking that record to.
Click to expand...
I was wondering the same. USCHO has Potter @ 163 points through 70 games (2.33) and Jennifer @ 190 points through 62 games (3.06).


Are the other points coming into play before official records were kept (late 90s?). oh, and USCHO is not generally known for accuracy.
 
Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

Wiki has Jennifer listed as the NC$$ leader in points @ 319. As I suggested, some points were before official records.

So unofficially Jennifer is leader. Officially Julie was....until Agosta passed her.
 
Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

You really need to come around more often, RStarr. You're a breath of fresh air. :)
 
Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

hurstfan87 said:
Where did you get these numbers. Agosta just passed Julie Chu for most points all time with 289 points. Chu had the record at 285. I think that Agosta will have 300 points and also the record for most goals. She's only 2 goals from breaking that record to.
Click to expand...
Botterill's are from collegehockeystats. In the case of Potter, they are her UMD numbers for 3 seasons plus the numbers from her frosh season at Minnesota. Agosta most likely holds the record in total points during the NCAA era. Players like Potter and Botterill played some seasons before the NCAA started compiling records in 2000-2001, and RStarr asked about all-time numbers. There are probably some huge totals for Granato and the like, but I don't have a source for those.

RStarr said:
I was wondering the same. USCHO has Potter @ 163 points through 70 games (2.33) and Jennifer @ 190 points through 62 games (3.06).


Are the other points coming into play before official records were kept (late 90s?). oh, and USCHO is not generally known for accuracy.
Click to expand...
They probably only show NCAA numbers. The numbers for a player like Botterill will probably vary based on what games are considered exhibitions and excluded.

RStarr said:
Wiki has Jennifer listed as the NC$$ leader in points @ 319. As I suggested, some points were before official records.

So unofficially Jennifer is leader. Officially Julie was....until Agosta passed her.
Click to expand...
 
Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

ARM said:
RStarr asked about all-time numbers. There are probably some huge totals for Granato and the like, but I don't have a source for those.
Click to expand...
Sorry to hijack the thread...

I can't find totals for AJ, but according to the Patty Kaz site, its 200+....Re 1999, the year she won, "she easily eclipsed the previous single-season scoring mark for women’s ice hockey (89 points set by Cindy Schlaepher in (1976-77) and enters this weekend’s American Women’s College Hockey Alliance National Championship with 109 points (36-73) through 32 games."

Brandy Fisher, 1998 and inaugural winner from UNH also had 200+..."She enters this weekend’s American Women’s College Hockey Alliance Division I National Ice Hockey Championship ranked second on the UNH all-time scoring list with 239 career points, including her school-record 128 goals."
 
Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

ARM said:
That's an interesting topic. I question the use of "catch up" in this case, because that implies that the voters got it wrong and clearly should have given the award to Agosta in the past. No doubt, there are those that look just at stats or watch Agosta play all season who feel that way. However, there weren't many neutral observers at the 2009 Frozen Four that thought Kazmaier voters erred in their choice that season. Did you have a season in mind where the voters chose someone over Agosta where you feel hindsight revealed that was the wrong choice?
Click to expand...

Not catch up in the sense of she got jobbed another year, but more a cumulative "Career" award.
 
PrincetonFan said:
Not catch up in the sense of she got jobbed another year, but more a cumulative "Career" award.
Click to expand...

The Patty Kaz is not a career award though. Its for the best player in college hockey in a given year. Being secod best 3 times shouldnt be a factor.
 
Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

BoSox3066 said:
The Patty Kaz is not a career award though. Its for the best player in college hockey in a given year. Being secod best 3 times shouldnt be a factor.
Click to expand...

You're right, but my point is that human nature being what it is, this might influence the voting.
 
Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

Re: 2010-2011 Patty Kazmaier Thread

I'm just catching up with this thread. I was aware Irwin was injured and not playing. I meant to ask what her injury status was. I agree it was her absence and the Lams coming on strong that limit her candidacy. What I meant by my comment was that she'd still be a likely top 10 candidate if it were not for the Lams.

And I agree over the years, UMD players have not done as well in the Kaz process as I would expect based on their merits.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top