2010-2011 DIII commitment thread

[FranchisePlayer]

Re: 2010-2011 DIII commitment thread

Looks like the 4th goalie disappeared with this update (updated today).

I have no relationship to the PSU progam, its coaches, nor any of its players. The fact that so many goalies committed (and the 4 had been there for about a month) tells me that the coach is not doing a good job of advising the prospects of where they stand with regards to other prospects. To me, this is not a good practice in recruiting.

Yes, there are no true committments (from the player or the coach) until the player shows up at tryouts and that should be explained to prospects and their families. That being said, a coach should be able to (without divulging the identities of other prospects) tell a prospect, "I'm looking for X number of your position this year. I have Y number of prospects and you are/aren't in the top X at this time. I know you and my other prospects may be looking at other schools right now, and some of them don't have this place as #1 on their list. Let's talk about this in April." Now if they are #1 on the coach's list, this clearly changes the nature of the talk, but clearly there shouldn't have been 4 #1 goalies.

My daughter went through the recruiting process and the coaches that were more interested in her gave her clearer signals as to where she stood through the year. Others, not so much. So when it came down to time to commit, she pretty much knew where she stood with the coaches talking to her.

So when I saw 4 goalies saying they were committed to PSU, especially when there were early commits, this told me that the coach was not being particularly clear as to his desire for the candidates. Either that or BTD wasn't getting the "uncommit" messages very quickly from the ones who changed their minds.

Fair enough.

I suppose the only response I have is to ask a question: why do you assume that all four goalies were told that they were "#1" goalies? Couldn't it be possible that the coach did, in fact, have conversation with the players, and they all decided that they wanted to go anyway? Perhaps the third and fourth goalies still felt that the school was their best overall option? I guess I just have a hard time taking the coach to task without being privy to what was and was not said to players. And, as you said yourself, your family had a different experience with other coaches/programs, so neither one of us really knows what was going on or why players decided that they were "committed".

In any case, I just think it's good for their program and for the ECAC East as a whole if PSU is able to become a competitive program. I would hope that we don't have a similar discussion about this program NEXT year...

 

[notfromaroundhere]

Re: 2010-2011 DIII commitment thread

Fair enough.

I suppose the only response I have is to ask a question: why do you assume that all four goalies were told that they were "#1" goalies? Couldn't it be possible that the coach did, in fact, have conversation with the players, and they all decided that they wanted to go anyway? Perhaps the third and fourth goalies still felt that the school was their best overall option? I guess I just have a hard time taking the coach to task without being privy to what was and was not said to players. And, as you said yourself, your family had a different experience with other coaches/programs, so neither one of us really knows what was going on or why players decided that they were "committed".

In any case, I just think it's good for their program and for the ECAC East as a whole if PSU is able to become a competitive program. I would hope that we don't have a similar discussion about this program NEXT year...

Don't get me wrong, I'm hoping PSU gets its act together next year. It is just that when (as a goalie parent) you see lots of early committments (we tracked them this year) to "schools without particularly unique attributes" (i.e. highly selective, regular contenders, technical schools), it raises my suspicions as to whether there is appropriate communications going on between the coach and the recruit/family. It would make me think twice as to whether I am getting the whole story.

D3 recruiting is not that difficult. It basically involves:
1) Evaluating as much talent that might consider your school as you can.
2) Letting HS/Club coaches of desirable candidates know which players would be most welcome at your school.
3) Researching prospects who contact you as interested if you aren't already familiar with them. Go out of your way to show interest in the most promising by showing up at a game.
4) Encourage all prospects to visit the school in person and take a tour, do an overnight to find out how much the prospect really likes the school. This of all things is probably the most important.
5) Giving timely and frank feedback as to the opportunities available to all prospects.
6) Expect the same timely and frank feedback as to the continued level of interest as the season progresses.
7) Set appropriate deadlines for decisions of top prospects based upon prospect requirements (FA offers, D1 offers, etc.).

 

[GoGoGophers]

Re: 2010-2011 DIII commitment thread

Nice recruiting class for the Gusties.

Gustavus Adolphus College

Maddie Burgh D Benilde St Margarets
Melissa Doyle F Hill-Murray High School
Jessica Harren F Hill Murray Transfer from No Dakota
Ali Lindy F Blaine High School
Marah Sobczak G Stillwater High School
Lisa Tuuri F Stillwater High School

 

[hopefulldad]

Re: 2010-2011 DIII commitment thread

I did notice that one of the goalies who said they were committed to PSU on BTD was on the list than off of it then appeared back on it and now just recently taken off of it.....not sure how it works but I am assuming anyone can put there name down on the list, being a parent who has been with my daughter thru the recruiting process and has talked with the coach at PSU.... can only speak of good things about her communication, and commitment to making this a competitive program...I think calling it a "Cattle Call" is not a very accurate description of what I seen happening there.....I guess we will have to wait for the dust to settle and see who is on the team and how well the program competes next year......

 

[Hux]

Re: 2010-2011 DIII commitment thread

Don't get me wrong, I'm hoping PSU gets its act together next year. It is just that when (as a goalie parent) you see lots of early committments (we tracked them this year) to "schools without particularly unique attributes" (i.e. highly selective, regular contenders, technical schools), it raises my suspicions as to whether there is appropriate communications going on between the coach and the recruit/family. It would make me think twice as to whether I am getting the whole story.

D3 recruiting is not that difficult. It basically involves:
1) Evaluating as much talent that might consider your school as you can.
2) Letting HS/Club coaches of desirable candidates know which players would be most welcome at your school.
3) Researching prospects who contact you as interested if you aren't already familiar with them. Go out of your way to show interest in the most promising by showing up at a game.
4) Encourage all prospects to visit the school in person and take a tour, do an overnight to find out how much the prospect really likes the school. This of all things is probably the most important.
5) Giving timely and frank feedback as to the opportunities available to all prospects.
6) Expect the same timely and frank feedback as to the continued level of interest as the season progresses.
7) Set appropriate deadlines for decisions of top prospects based upon prospect requirements (FA offers, D1 offers, etc.).

Having been around this sport for some time, I would say that you are leaving out a scenario that is highly likely: Players want to continue playing, and will often hear what they want to hear. Or, a player just wants to continue playing, realizes her limits, and is happy to accept a role as a practice player, just to stay around the game.

 

[5 4 Fighting]

Re: 2010-2011 DIII commitment thread

Having been around this sport for some time, I would say that you are leaving out a scenario that is highly likely: Players want to continue playing, and will often hear what they want to hear. Or, a player just wants to continue playing, realizes her limits, and is happy to accept a role as a practice player, just to stay around the game.

On point Hux. That's why I can't figure out why more schools don't carry JV teams. I mean if they are coming to a school to play...why can't they play?

 

[Hux]

Re: 2010-2011 DIII commitment thread

On point Hux. That's why I can't figure out why more schools don't carry JV teams. I mean if they are coming to a school to play...why can't they play?

Survey says:

$$$

 

[FranchisePlayer]

Re: 2010-2011 DIII commitment thread

Don't get me wrong, I'm hoping PSU gets its act together next year. It is just that when (as a goalie parent) you see lots of early committments (we tracked them this year) to "schools without particularly unique attributes" (i.e. highly selective, regular contenders, technical schools), it raises my suspicions as to whether there is appropriate communications going on between the coach and the recruit/family. It would make me think twice as to whether I am getting the whole storyQUOTE]

I guess I would refer you to post #120, from the BTD administrator - he mentions that sometimes coaches ask to have players taken off. Then take a look at Hopefuldad's post, where it sounds like there is/was a goalie that has been on and off, back on, then back off again.... Finally, take a look at Hux' comment about players hearing what they want to hear. Now, draw your own conclusion about the four-goalie situation...

That said, I agree with Hux that the major reason why more schools don't carry JV programs is a lack of money, and that is a shame. With so few college women's programs (D1 and D3), it seems that there just aren't enough roster spots for the growing number of girls that want to play. And if you want to get into a REALLY good discussion about that, head over to the American-Canadian thread...

 

[pucko]

Re: 2010-2011 DIII commitment thread

Don't get me wrong, I'm hoping PSU gets its act together next year. It is just that when (as a goalie parent) you see lots of early committments (we tracked them this year) to "schools without particularly unique attributes" (i.e. highly selective, regular contenders, technical schools), it raises my suspicions as to whether there is appropriate communications going on between the coach and the recruit/family. It would make me think twice as to whether I am getting the whole story.

D3 recruiting is not that difficult. It basically involves:
1) Evaluating as much talent that might consider your school as you can.
2) Letting HS/Club coaches of desirable candidates know which players would be most welcome at your school.
3) Researching prospects who contact you as interested if you aren't already familiar with them. Go out of your way to show interest in the most promising by showing up at a game.
4) Encourage all prospects to visit the school in person and take a tour, do an overnight to find out how much the prospect really likes the school. This of all things is probably the most important.
5) Giving timely and frank feedback as to the opportunities available to all prospects.
6) Expect the same timely and frank feedback as to the continued level of interest as the season progresses.
7) Set appropriate deadlines for decisions of top prospects based upon prospect requirements (FA offers, D1 offers, etc.).

I completely agree with this as how to recruit if you are a DIII coach. I think what might be equally interesting is the top 7 ways a player should approach the DIII recruiting process. Just as there are 'dishonest' coaches (or, for lack of a better word, coaches that don't disclose as much as they should), there are players that are 'dishonest' and don't let coaches know where they are really looking. I'm sure there are a lot of players who are vague and tell a coach their school is their #1 choice - therefore, having a coach think they have that player locked up. Without a player having to sign a commitment, it makes it more difficult.

I guess you just hope there's open dialogue on both ends.

 

[notfromaroundhere]

Re: 2010-2011 DIII commitment thread

Having been around this sport for some time, I would say that you are leaving out a scenario that is highly likely: Players want to continue playing, and will often hear what they want to hear. Or, a player just wants to continue playing, realizes her limits, and is happy to accept a role as a practice player, just to stay around the game.

Yes, there are players at many schools who practice with the full knowledge that they won't get game time. I wouldn't think that they would post their intent on BTD, though.

And yes, there are those who upon hearing the coach saying you are welcome to try out think they have a roster spot locked. And perhaps they do post on BTD. And with the on-again off-again nature of some committments, you do wonder what is going on.

I didn't mean my questioning of the number of goalie recruits at PSU to be an attack on the school or its new coach. I did bring it up as a situation that should be understood by all those going through the recruitment process. There is lots of "information" out there as to who is going where. As a prospect, you have to ask lots of questions and be willing to share a lot about what your objectives and priorities are. Coaches should encourage this type of open dialogue to the extent that both parties participate. Yes, occasionally misunderstandings will occur during this conversation, but in the end, the more that is hidden, the more both parties will be hurt.

Things do happen during this process. Very talented late prospects show up and as a coach, you need to advise prospects that sometimes there is more competition than you expect. You should also know that this happens and not to give firm committments to prospects likely to be affected by these things.

I've watched the committments over this year and was surprised to see how early PSU got goalie committments. Coach may very well have found 3 goalies that are very competitive and worth giving that vote of confidence. Beyond that however, you start to wonder what is going on. Lots of possible explanations. However, it reminds us to ask lots of questions.

 

[Trillium]

Re: 2010-2011 DIII commitment thread

I guess that's what must have happened with St. Norbert's, with their 20 "committed" players. Guess that coach must have told everyone that they will be on the power play, too...

I wouldn't doubt that at all.

 

[posttopost2]

Re: 2010-2011 DIII commitment thread

Yes, there are players at many schools who practice with the full knowledge that they won't get game time. I wouldn't think that they would post their intent on BTD, though.

And yes, there are those who upon hearing the coach saying you are welcome to try out think they have a roster spot locked. And perhaps they do post on BTD. And with the on-again off-again nature of some committments, you do wonder what is going on.

I didn't mean my questioning of the number of goalie recruits at PSU to be an attack on the school or its new coach. I did bring it up as a situation that should be understood by all those going through the recruitment process. There is lots of "information" out there as to who is going where. As a prospect, you have to ask lots of questions and be willing to share a lot about what your objectives and priorities are. Coaches should encourage this type of open dialogue to the extent that both parties participate. Yes, occasionally misunderstandings will occur during this conversation, but in the end, the more that is hidden, the more both parties will be hurt.

Things do happen during this process. Very talented late prospects show up and as a coach, you need to advise prospects that sometimes there is more competition than you expect. You should also know that this happens and not to give firm committments to prospects likely to be affected by these things.

I've watched the committments over this year and was surprised to see how early PSU got goalie committments. Coach may very well have found 3 goalies that are very competitive and worth giving that vote of confidence. Beyond that however, you start to wonder what is going on. Lots of possible explanations. However, it reminds us to ask lots of questions.

I was suprised to see the "fourth" goalie since the goalie that disapeared is still committed to the team and has had communication with the team so who knows what is going on. This coach is very clear on her vision but she didn't say that she was going to have a #1 goalie - lets face it, she has to win sometime.

 

[valiantfan08]

Re: 2010-2011 DIII commitment thread

Maybe Plymouth St or Norwich can lend a goalie to M'Ville. I see they don't have any listed and only 1 remains on there roster from last year. Any news out there ??

 

[WHKY blogger]

Re: 2010-2011 DIII commitment thread

I was suprised to see the "fourth" goalie since the goalie that disapeared is still committed to the team and has had communication with the team so who knows what is going on. This coach is very clear on her vision but she didn't say that she was going to have a #1 goalie - lets face it, she has to win sometime.

The 4th Goalie was listed by the request of the coach as she was unaware of her and had not recruited her. The Goalie was listed originally via a self submission.

 

[notfromaroundhere]

Re: 2010-2011 DIII commitment thread

I was suprised to see the "fourth" goalie since the goalie that disapeared is still committed to the team and has had communication with the team so who knows what is going on. This coach is very clear on her vision but she didn't say that she was going to have a #1 goalie - lets face it, she has to win sometime.

The 4th Goalie was listed by the request of the coach as she was unaware of her and had not recruited her. The Goalie was listed originally via a self submission.

I think what we have here is a failure to communicate.

 

[centralbear]

Re: 2010-2011 DIII commitment thread

Final thread of recruits?

 

[gojackets]

Re: 2010-2011 DIII commitment thread

Final thread of recruits?

http://www.beyondthedashers.com/files/Commitments/10-11/10-11_D3_Listing.pdf

 

[gojackets]

Re: 2010-2011 DIII commitment thread

Just a curious thought...I see Gustavus has a recruit Melissa Doyle...any relation to Molly?


Also a little surprised to see Courtney Esse headed to UWS. I know here first couple of years she was pretty good up at Cloquet...thought she might end up D1 somewhere

 

[123kidd]

Re: 2010-2011 DIII commitment thread

Just a curious thought...I see Gustavus has a recruit Melissa Doyle...any relation to Molly?


Also a little surprised to see Courtney Esse headed to UWS. I know here first couple of years she was pretty good up at Cloquet...thought she might end up D1 somewhere

Go D1 somewhere for a year or two and end up at UWS...

 

[joehockey]

Re: 2010-2011 DIII commitment thread

Just a curious thought...I see Gustavus has a recruit Melissa Doyle...any relation to Molly?


Also a little surprised to see Courtney Esse headed to UWS. I know here first couple of years she was pretty good up at Cloquet...thought she might end up D1 somewhere

Not sure on relationship to Molly? She grew up in White Bear and played at Hill Murray. Though only 5' she plays like 6' and is super quick with great hands. In the Senior Classic she was the leading scorer for the Sec 4 team that was made up of mostly D1 recruits. Tremendous player, student and just a great kid with a smile/personality bigger than Texas!

Looks like they have a great incoming class a at least one great D1 transfer.