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2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

I do not go to the team's practices, I do not sit in the lockerroom, I do not have the coaches' offices mic'd. And I am not impressed with the coach's insights.

He may be a Harvard graduate, but he is a hockey coach. His product is not very complicated. I believe I am able to recognize his team's forechecking system when it appears on the ice. I believe I can recognize what his team is trying to do on its powerplay (other than when he uses 3 D and 2 freshmen) when they come on the ice.

What I cannot figure out is why he is unable to get Wahs Stacey to do what he wants him to do. Without the great intellect or insight of a Harvard-educated hockey coach, I see that Wahs is a productive player, he puts points on the scoreboard and his +/- rating is better than many forwards, so I am not able to understand, and it seems that Wahs is unable to understand, what that boy must do to play in a darn game!

So, the coach cannot get Wahs to understand, he has struggled getting Lawson to understand and has failed at getting Lawson to contribute, he failed ultimately with Josh Franklin and Chris Atkinson, his team is underachieving miserably, but he's got tremendous insight.

I would not stand silent if he ever looked for ideas.
 
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Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

sterlippo1 said:
why is grantfan taking so much abuse?
Click to expand...

Because he says things that tend to contradict themselves. With his feelings toward the hockey coach and his Ivy league background, I want to think grantfan is a highly educated college professor - maybe even teaches at the university.

He understands the game of hockey at a level few of us do but more than that, he understands the deep roots of the psychology of the game and how how those actions impact the players. He is not afraid to voice his feelings, and has said he wants to be taken seriously.

Hope that makes sense...
 
Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

My assessment is that Grantfan is an outlier in his opinions and just has some kind of personal bias against the excellent UVM head coach

Grantfan likes Gilligan better, which is fine, each person is entitled to their opinion. Although it would be nice if the opinion were based on fact rather than a bottle of JD or whatever grantfan fuels himself with

I personally prefer finishing in the top half of HE over finishing in the bottom half of ECAC each year and the only explanation for that significant improvement in the program is the coach who has made it happen.
 
Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

grantfan said:
So, the coach cannot get Wahs to understand, he has struggled getting Lawson to understand and has failed at getting Lawson to contribute, he failed ultimately with Josh Franklin and Chris Atkinson, his team is underachieving miserably, but he's got tremendous insight.
Click to expand...

Grantfan, you left out one important possibility, maybe its not Sneddon's fault. Maybe for example, Atkinson has never been able to physically recover to the level that he once enjoyed and that due to that he realizes that focusing on education is of more importance then playing half the season the fourth line.

Maybe Franklin realized that with a strong freshman class he too was going to be relegated to the part time play that he has endured since he started at UVM, that there was not going to be a break out season and that academics needed to take priority.

Maybe Lawson just hasn't played the way Sneddon has wanted to. Maybe that blast in the NCAA tourney made his head a little big and he is has become more concerend with what he did then what he needs to do.

And maybe Wahs has a nagging injury.

I have no special insight, but those maybes are just as likely as Sneddon just can figure out how to get his players to play. In fact I would argue that they are more likely since most of the players are playing just fine. If the whole team was having "issues" I would be more likely to agree with your assessment.

As for the Gilligan v. Sneddon issue, Gilligan was a great coach, right up until St. Louis, Perrin, and Thomas finished up. Then realizing he was never going to have a team like that again he gave up. That was followed up by the hazing scandal and then he went through the motions. Recruiting was horrible, play was horrible and this team went to the bottom of the ECAC. Sneddon has right the ship and built a team that will be a contender for years. I will take nothing away from Gilligan he was a good coach when he was interested in coaching. But he should have retired a few years early a la Brennan realizing that once Sorrentine and Copenrath left his time was up.
 
Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

I am not the UVM coach's biggest fan. With that said, why not just respond to the points I try to make as they are often hockey-related. Disagree if you disagree.

I appreciate jcarter's last post as it simply addresses the points I was making. That he resorts to many maybes doesn't convince me of anything, but that's fine. At least he addressed the points I was making.

Remember, someone who doesn't like the coach can sometimes also be right about what he thinks, just as he could be wrong.

Through January 19, 2010, I think the coach has led either a severely overrated team or an underachieving one. Right now, mine will probably be Sneddon's only Penrose Trophy vote, as it will probably be Brayden Irwin's only Walter Brown Award vote.

via
 
Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

grantfan said:
I have done a great amount of soul-searching to try to determine why I seem to butt heads with my fellow UVM hockey fans. What better time to do such soul-searching, I thought, than as the last thread wound down and this new thread began? In that search of self, I welcome any suggestions from my fellow hockey fans who know me best, including from those of UM-Lowell, BC, Notre Dame, and any others.

There is something about ridiculous overstatement that continues to get me. With all due respect, the incoming recruits representing "one of the best classes ever" and invoking the names of St. Louis and Perrin is, well, enough for me to look at a bit more closely.

First off, such statement is to diminish the very freshman class we are enjoying this season - McCarthy, Roos, and Stalberg, to say nothing of Franzon. Despite being an early member of the UVM All-Decade Team for the 2010s, McCarthy does not yet look like a reincarnation of either St. Louis or Perrin.

Connor Brickley's performance - 27 points (13g) in 28 USHL games as a 6'2", 195 lb. 17 1/2year old - makes him an NHL prospect and a wonderful recruit.

With him comes the senior member of the recruting class, Anthony DeCenzo. Unlike snapdog (and coach Sneddon), who saw Anthony as a high school star, I see a 20 year old with 9g-12a in 32 games in this, his third (second full) USHL season. While he is close to being on pace to match last season's 44 points, he is, thankfully, not on pace to match his startling -44 rating of last season. I am not yet aware of anything that should prompt visions of St. Louis or Perrin, though I did not see him play as a high school star. Plus, was he as big a high school star as Matt Marshall or Josh Franklin?

Perhaps too big to remind of either St. Louis or Perrin will be Lance Herrington's 6'4", 205 lb. brother, Brooks. Now 19 years old, Brooks has crashed the net to the tune of 5g-13a in 22 games, 9th among forwards on an EJHL team that is 22-3-1 and the highest scoring team in the league.

Someone who theoretically could conceivably remind of St. Louis' or Perrin's passing abilities is Mike Montagna (1g-2a in 3 EJHL games). An assist machine (51 in 45 EJHL games) as a 16 year old, Montagna committed to UVM as a 16 year old and is scheduled to arrive in Burlington as an 18 year old in September, seemingly without the benefit of a second year of juniors (or any hockey for that matter). If he is what he seemed last season, he will fill a serious UVM void, a playmaking center!

Defensively, the incoming class has only Blake Doerring, an 18 year old D playing for the 22-9-1 Fargo Force in the USHL. In 23 of Fargo's 32 games, on the league's 2nd highest scoring team, Doerring has quietly put up 1g-3a while firing 10 shots on goal. His +4 is very good on his team, though he is not a tough guy (28 PIMs).

I guess there is something about ridiculous overstatement that continues to get me.

If anyone has any soul-searching ideas for me, please. Grantfan has absolutely no clue. DeCenzo will be a fine player for Vermont the next 4 yrs. That is a fact. Also Sneddon is a top notch D1 Coach. UVM is lucky in that respect. I do agree with snwbrdr UVM needs a new rink and weight facility badly.
Click to expand...
 
Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

Snapdog2, as I have no clue, please give me clues as to why Anthony DeCenzo is sure to be a fine Division I college hockey player. Please try to limit your clues to what we can expect of Anthony as a player and try to exclude from your clues how lousy his teams have been (he contributed). His junior career has not been stellar and has not held a candle to that of your other local hero, Corey Carlson, who brought to Vermont real credentials and rightfully was expected to be a star.
 
Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

snwbrdr said:
My assessment is that Grantfan is an outlier in his opinions and just has some kind of personal bias against the excellent UVM head coach

Grantfan likes Gilligan better, which is fine, each person is entitled to their opinion. Although it would be nice if the opinion were based on fact rather than a bottle of JD or whatever grantfan fuels himself with

I personally prefer finishing in the top half of HE over finishing in the bottom half of ECAC each year and the only explanation for that significant improvement in the program is the coach who has made it happen.
Click to expand...

Well said! Thank you.
 
Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

grantfan said:
Snapdog2, as I have no clue, please give me clues as to why Anthony DeCenzo is sure to be a fine Division I college hockey player. Please try to limit your clues to what we can expect of Anthony as a player and try to exclude from your clues how lousy his teams have been (he contributed). His junior career has not been stellar and has not held a candle to that of your other local hero, Corey Carlson, who brought to Vermont real credentials and rightfully was expected to be a star.
Click to expand...

Grantfan Corey had leadership ability and some intangables that he needed to be a solid D1 player. He did not have the speed. Anthony will bring a very similar thing to UVM,s table. I watched his High School Career in Northern Mn. Being a D1 Players son and had his Father as his High School Coach he has a head start. He knows what it takes. I would be really surprised if he does not have a career that parallels Coreys. Nice hands, knows the rink and will score. Grantfan I just go off what I see. Sorry I said you have no clue. That was wrong! But I liked Carlson. I also like DeCenzo and Sneddon.
 
Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

Snapdog2, "you have no clue" is MILD, not offensive and, in my opinion, does not require an apology.

I, too, liked Corey Carlson but was very, very disappointed in his offensive production. I agree with you that he lacked speed, but do we recruit 30-goal scorers from the USHL to become 5-goal scoring penalty killers? Can't we leave that role to players like Reese Wisnowski and Johnathan Higgins and Brett Leonard and Matt Marshall, minus the 5-goals, of course?

I wonder, in fact, I have NO CLUE, what Sneddon does to prolific junior players like Carlson and Dean Strong to stop them from scoring. I am learning that it is wonderful coaching, of course, but I have no clue. I understand that smarter fans than myself will explain there are other parts of the game than just scoring, like faceoffs. A great faceoff winning percentage really helps a team win (Strong). Well, we all remember one particular faceoff in Washington, DC, so smarter fans can enjoy winning faceoffs and I'll take a 6th goal from a guy who used to score before learning how not to score, along with classmate Carlson, from his college coach.

Snapdog2, respectfully speaking, how do you explain DeCenzo's junior career? How does he ring up a -41 and why is he not scoring this season?
 
Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

grantfan said:
how do you explain DeCenzo's junior career? How does he ring up a -41 and why is he not scoring this season?
Click to expand...



Grantfan, let's say a player goes out and he scores 2 goals a game. And lets say that the teams goalie is a real sucky player and he gives up 5 goals a game. Of course as a coach you are playing your most gifted scorer as much as possible to try and score and offset the weakness at goal. So naturally the scorer is on the ice for many of the shltty goals being scored because the goalie is a sieve. Now lets be a little more realistic and say you guy averages 1 goal a game and your goalies give up 4, 4.7 and 5 GAA respectively. If you play 15 minutes a game then the odds you are on the ice for a GA are about 1 in 4 or 100%. Its pretty hard to rack up a "+" rating that way, and if you look you will find that not one single player has. Now, does that mean the kid can't skate, or that he can't score?? Nope it means the goalie sucks and one has nothing to do with the other.
 
Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

jcarter, the +/- statistic can mean nothing or it can mean something. If a player is a +3 or a -3, he was kind of along for the ride. If his + or - become extreme, say worst on the team (let alone in the league, as in DeCenzo's case), then it says he's hurting. And if he was just unlucky in amassing a -41, well, I don't ever like being with someone who is that unlucky!

If you were looking for offensive whizzes in the USHL last season and this season, you would not exactly think of Anthony DeCenzo. Now, if you were talking minus-players in the league last season, he'd come to mind immediately. I guess his -41 was a compliment to his offensive abilities. But then, looking at his scoring totals this season, it kind of makes you wish for the -41 days, doesn't it?

Someone was concerned about Lenz's -19. I tried to tell them they needn't be, that Sneddon will teach Lenz how to play defense. Like you, jc, I was wondering what the heck they were concerned about?

Sometimes, a player's play in juniors give good indication of what the player will do in college. Looking at this year's team, Colin Vock is playing great and producing points on a great line just like he did when he was on one of the best lines in the USHL with Kyle Okposo of the NY Islanders and Trevor Lewis of the LA Kings. Brayden Irwin is scoring goals with his big shot just like he did for the St. Michael's Buzzers and Justin Milo is scoring goals just like he did in the USHL. Even Wahs Stacey produces points just like he did in juniors.

Might we expect DeCenzo to play like Brian Roloff? If he has a career like Carlson's, I'll be disappointed. I have higher expectations for both Connor Brickley and Lenz than I do for DeCenzo. We'll see.

Some schools have recruits that are doing well in their final preparatory seasons before coming to school and give indications of what they might do in college hockey. For UVM, we now enjoy explaining away facts and reality in our recruits.
 
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Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

In thinking about the coming weekend series at U-Mass I went back and looked at the below links regarding the U-Mass Game from just before thanksgiving at the Gutt when Casey Wellman (3 goals) & James Marcou (5 assists) were on fire.

UVM’s special teams were horrible: 0-4 on the power-play and let up 3 out of 6 on the kill. Thought you all might find the below links of interest as well.

UVM v. U. Mass Box - Tuesday, November 24, 2009 – Interesting to see different lines than today.

http://www.collegehockeystats.net/0910/boxes/mumaver1.n24

UVM v. U Mass Video highlights -

http://www.youtube.com/uvmathletics#p/u/71/0TOb0Ld5n_E

Sneddon Post Game -

http://www.youtube.com/uvmathletics#p/u/74/HCGCir19FWQ

Roloff Post Game -

http://www.youtube.com/uvmathletics#p/u/73/6zxwI9VPGcc
 
Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

4035 said:
In thinking about the coming weekend series at U-Mass I went back and looked at the below links regarding the U-Mass Game from just before thanksgiving at the Gutt when Casey Wellman (3 goals) & James Marcou (5 assists) were on fire.

UVM’s special teams were horrible: 0-4 on the power-play and let up 3 out of 6 on the kill. Thought you all might find the below links of interest as well.

UVM v. U. Mass Box - Tuesday, November 24, 2009 – Interesting to see different lines than today.

http://www.collegehockeystats.net/0910/boxes/mumaver1.n24

UVM v. U Mass Video highlights -

http://www.youtube.com/uvmathletics#p/u/71/0TOb0Ld5n_E

Sneddon Post Game -

http://www.youtube.com/uvmathletics#p/u/74/HCGCir19FWQ

Roloff Post Game -

http://www.youtube.com/uvmathletics#p/u/73/6zxwI9VPGcc
Click to expand...

The key to this loss was Spillane's 6GAA and 0.80 save%. If you goalie can't stop more then 4 out of 5 shots you aren't going to win too many games.
 
Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

I am convinced that the reason one player wears completely different equipment than all of the other players is so jcarter will know who to blame for goals and losses.

In the first UMass game, the UMass powerplay, that is, Marcou and Wellman, went through the UVM penalty kill like the proverbial hot knife through butter.

If Sneddon does not put a player on Marcou when UMass is on the PP and let the other UMass players try to beat us, he is, well, a Penrose Trophy candidate.

The story of the first UMass game was not Spillane, it was an utterly defenseless penalty kill system and unit. Remember, UVM was leading before the UMass PP took the game away from us in about 8 minutes. The UVM PK looked like it was playing in the wrong league that evening.
 
Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

jcarter7669 said:
Grantfan, let's say a player goes out and he scores 2 goals a game. And lets say that the teams goalie is a real sucky player and he gives up 5 goals a game. Of course as a coach you are playing your most gifted scorer as much as possible to try and score and offset the weakness at goal. So naturally the scorer is on the ice for many of the shltty goals being scored because the goalie is a sieve. Now lets be a little more realistic and say you guy averages 1 goal a game and your goalies give up 4, 4.7 and 5 GAA respectively. If you play 15 minutes a game then the odds you are on the ice for a GA are about 1 in 4 or 100%. Its pretty hard to rack up a "+" rating that way, and if you look you will find that not one single player has. Now, does that mean the kid can't skate, or that he can't score?? Nope it means the goalie sucks and one has nothing to do with the other.
Click to expand...

In my humble opinion Grantfan 73 pts for a College Career as Corey put up is fantastic. It appears Vock, Roloff, Irwin, Milo had he did 4 yrs will have similar numbers. D1 is good hockey and I am very happy to see UVM being a Top 20 team and reaching the Frozen Four last year was awful special. Plus you guys got my Bulldogs the other weekend and they are very talented. Corey scored 30 pts roughly his 1st year in Juniors if you check the records and like 67 or so the 2nd year finishing like 3rd in scoring or fourth. Actually it was his 3rd year as he played some after his Senior year and the playoffs. Also remember he was on a potent team which directly affects plus minus. He played with Stastny and Howe and Kaufman. Yes you will get points playing on a line with these guys. Hey Corey was a scorer. So is DeCenzo. I believe DeCenzo has a little more speed and having a D1 player as a Father and Coach he has lived for this his whole life. Corey Carlson brought so much to the rink. I believe he was one of your smartest players. If he had Gerbe,s speed it would have been quite a package. I am happy UVM liked him and i so enjoyed being one of his biggest fans and UVM,s the last 4 yrs. His Father was my linemate for 12 yrs thru youth and High School. Anyways all I can say is I believe my eyes are pretty good and DeCenzo will pan. Lets wait and see. As for me I am still following UVM from afar and will even more when Anthony skates as a Catamount.
 
Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

4035 said:
In thinking about the coming weekend series at U-Mass I went back and looked at the below links regarding the U-Mass Game from just before thanksgiving at the Gutt when Casey Wellman (3 goals) & James Marcou (5 assists) were on fire.

UVM’s special teams were horrible: 0-4 on the power-play and let up 3 out of 6 on the kill. Thought you all might find the below links of interest as well.

UVM v. U. Mass Box - Tuesday, November 24, 2009 – Interesting to see different lines than today.

http://www.collegehockeystats.net/0910/boxes/mumaver1.n24

UVM v. U Mass Video highlights -

http://www.youtube.com/uvmathletics#p/u/71/0TOb0Ld5n_E

Sneddon Post Game -

http://www.youtube.com/uvmathletics#p/u/74/HCGCir19FWQ

Roloff Post Game -

http://www.youtube.com/uvmathletics#p/u/73/6zxwI9VPGcc
Click to expand...

Wow 4 posts and already in the red...who did you **** off?
 
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