2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

[observer85]

Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

Observer85 wrote:

Senior (5) forwards : Anctil, Higgins, Irwin, Roloff and Vock. Incoming forwards with a 2010 arrival date (4) : Herrington, Brickley, Decenzo, Montagna

Senior (1) defenseman : Cullity. Defenseman with 2010 arrival date (1) : Doerring

Senior (1) goalie : Spillane. Incoming goalie : ??? Could be Vazzano but appears maybe not as he has 2011 incoming date also.

So this opens the door for discussion...

Other forwards that might not return (3) : Milo - leave for baseball? Academically he is a senior so unless he is interested in graduate work, probably is gone. Atkinson - where is he? Franklin - he has already left the team.

So the coaches have 5 for sure players to replace, potentially 8.

And a 6th forward - Perhaps - has been located. This from the Western College Hockey Blog (http://www.westerncollegehockeyblog.com/2010/1/14/1251444/north-dakotas-commit-list-gets)

"Also, I'll admit to not knowing exactly what was going on with former UND recruit Matt White, so maybe this is old news. Before the year started, White decided to go back home to Pittsburgh and considered giving up hockey altogether rather than playing with the Lincoln Stars. I guess he refound his love for the game of hockey, because Chris Heisenberg lists him as committing to Vermont for either next year or the following year. It's an interesting twist because if he had stayed in Lincoln, White likely would have been in a position to get drafted in the NHL Draft this summer, but fell off the map when he left for home. If he's back to being serious about hockey again, the NHL might take another look at him."

The writer indicated that White played in Lincoln but according to the USHL stats sight (Pointstreak), he played in Des Moines.

Kind of scary though, White was a -35 in 2008/2009 season and fellow recruit DeCenzo was a -41. And they are coming to a team whose coach prides himself in teaching and playing strong defensive hockey...

I wonder how much scholarship money goes to a player like this?

White : http://www.pointstreak.com/prostats/playerpage.html?playerid=1408061&seasonid=3192

DeCenzo : http://www.pointstreak.com/prostats/playerpage.html?playerid=1768105&seasonid=3192

 

[kdaddy]

Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

This weekends series should be interesting. On paper, yes, UVM should come away with 4 points, and considering it is at the Gutt, 4 points is necessary. The Cats are now 6-1-1 in their last 8 and look to have righted the ship to some degree. That said, wins against DC, SLU, UAH etc overinflate those numbers but hey a win is a win. That said, weekend sweeps have been rare in Hockey East this year, and a sweep this weekend would lead to a season sweep which makes it even more unlikely. On top of that, NU's Rawlings looks to be the kind of goalie that can steal games, giving up a single goal on 29 shots to UML and 34 saves against ME a few weeks back.

But it's hard to say. The Cats should win both games,however I wouldn't be surprised with a split.

Leave the playing on paper to UML, in their stratomatic league they already won HE

 

[jcarter7669]

Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

http://uvmsports.wordpress.com/

New Ted Ryan Blog may answer some of the questions Grantfan has about healthy scratches.


As for White, he moved back home and played hockey for his HS, now I know its High School Hockey but 19 G and 35 points in 22 games seems like a nice addition.

Those huge minus numbers are a concern but maybe Sneddon is looking for really strong offensive kids that he can teach to be defensive, as opposed to a defensive player that he hopes develops into an offensive player.

 

[grantfan]

Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

I seem unable to refrain from butting heads with my fellow UVM Hockey fans.

To those of us fans who are excited about the reported commitment of forward Matt White, I suggest this may be a spectacular example of why Vermont under Kevin Sneddon will continue to be a perpetual second tier program in Hockey East and the country.

A former NCAA and current professional coach once told me that every year there came a time when players who had been stars on previous teams at lower levels realized, and this was his quote, "Maybe I'm not very good."

There used to be a reason players used to be recruited not from their bantam or midget teams but after proving themselves in the junior ranks.

So here comes this "high scoring forward" whose high school coach (in Pittsburgh) points out has "spectacular size" (6'2", 195) and that he has "all the skills you could ever want." This player must be having a ball, the time of his life, playing for 2 teams, not just 1, and scoring 19 goals and 34 points in 14 high school games and then going to his other team, a midget team, and scoring 17 goals and 35 points (averaging 6 shots on goal/game!) in 22 games. This player must be loving hockey, don't you think?

Apparently, this player wasn't loving hockey when he quit the USHL and his opportunity to be scouted for the NHL draft and decommitted from North Dakota after 2 full USHL seasons that could have left a player thinking, "Maybe I'm not very good."

In his second full USHL season, he averaged 1 shot on goal/game and scored 10g-9a in 53 games, with a team-BEST -35. Maybe Sneddon is recruiting really strong offensive players he can teach defense, jcarter wonders, wishfully. Hey, with all those points in midgets, he is just a +2! Maybe this player's junior coach misused or mishandled him. Looking at a -35, maybe his coach played him TOO MUCH, after all, you can't ring up award-winning minuses if the coach won't let you go on the ice. The maybe that comes to my mind is, maybe I'm not very good. Maybe North Dakota thought that.

So he goes home and, as one of the older players in high school and midget hockey, he starts thinking, wow, I'm really good at hockey and I really love it. Again. One of my favorite UVM players was Ryan Gunderson, a product of Pennsylvania high school/midget hockey and a great, in my opinion, college player. But did Ryan ever have 2 lousy seasons that coincided with questioning whether or not he loved playing hockey?

This is a joke. And the joke is on UVM Hockey. This kid could be showing up in Burlington in September, straight from tearing up PA high school hockey and midgets. Neither of fellow Pennsylvanians Rob Madore or Chris McCarthy came to Burlington straight from that high school; I wonder if either of them played high school hockey? Maybe as 7th graders. This player has nothing to prove before being offered a Division I opportunity? By the way, is PA passing Connecticut as a producer of college hockey players?

It's good for the kid, everybody who plays hockey should love it. But what the heck is Sneddon doing recruiting him from midget hockey? Why hasn't North Dakota re-seen what they thought they once saw in this player? Why is Vermont so lucky to snare him from the high school and midget ranks?

If UVM wants to compete with BC and BU and UNH in Hockley East and North Dakota and Denver and Michigan on the national scene, they better ALWAYS have a Tim Thomas or a Joe Fallon or a Rob Madore at the top of their game because recruiting like this is a joke. It may not turn out to be funny, though.

 

[GuttCheck]

Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

Grantfan, you are clearly a glass is half empty type of guy.

I like the players Sneddon has brought in and continues to bring in. I trust his judgment. Anyone can speculate and say the kid is going to be great or the kid is going to be terrible (you), but the reality is we won't really know until the kid skates at Gutterson. I like our roster, I think the program is moving forward under Sneddon's plan, I like everything the guy has done since he has been here. You can b*tch all you want about the recruits, but I like the direction this program is moving, so I will continue to trust Sneddon's recruiting judgment.

 

[jcarter7669]

Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

Apparently, this player wasn't loving hockey when he quit the USHL and his opportunity to be scouted for the NHL draft and decommitted from North Dakota after 2 full USHL seasons that could have left a player thing, "Maybe I'm not very good."

Or, maybe he just figured, hey, this really isn't much fun. I don't want to play, my stats are suffering and it just sucks.

In his second full USHL season, he averaged 1 shot on goal/game and scored 10g-9a in 53 games, with a team-BEST -35. Maybe Sneddon is recruiting really strong offensive players he can teach defense, jcarter wonders, wishfully. The maybe that comes to my mind is, maybe I'm not very good. Maybe North Dakota thought that.

Umm, hey grantfan, if he was a team best -35, don't you think that makes his 19 pts in 53 games all the more impressive, because one thing is for sure.....his team sucked. You know this is reminiscent of another UVM player who had really shoody USHL numbers mainly because he played on a crap team.... Maybe Rob was a better goalie then the 4 GAA he was giving up? Hmm, that seemed to work pretty well for Sneddon last year.

ANd maybe Nor Dak thought he wasn't very good but since it was White that decommitted, not N. Dakota I think that it is a bit more likely the kid lost interest in hockey, you know like the article states.

Why hasn't North Dakota re-seen what they thought they once saw in this player? Why is Vermont so lucky to snare him from the high school and midget ranks?

How do you know North Dakota hasn't? Did you ever stop to think that maybe it was because of someone like Rob Madore that he decided to choose to come to VT rather then to re-approach N. Dak? Or maybe North Dakota is full and doesn't have the scholarship available a la McCarthy and BC?

Grantfan,
You have some issues, ok, I'm thinking split personality, but whatever. That's all fine and dandy, but you seem to struggle figuring out why you butt heads with people, so I am going to fill you in. Just a few posts back after "soul searching" you wrote a very logical and well thought out post that contained stats and arguments that backed up your points. NO ONE criticized and in fact a few even commented on it. Then you post this post, that is a rant, with no facts, few stats, absolutely no logic, and presumptions and projections galore.

Basically, when you stop to think about what you are posting you do alright, but you start being on the opposite of everyone else when you start assuming stuff, and bringing in arguments that have nothing to do with anything ( like whether or not Madore played hockey in HS ).

 

[jcarter7669]

Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

Grantfan, you are clearly a glass is half empty type of guy.

I like the players Sneddon has brought in and continues to bring in. I trust his judgment. Anyone can speculate and say the kid is going to be great or the kid is going to be terrible (you), but the reality is we won't really know until the kid skates at Gutterson. I like our roster, I think the program is moving forward under Sneddon's plan, I like everything the guy has done since he has been here. You can b*tch all you want about the recruits, but I like the direction this program is moving, so I will continue to trust Sneddon's recruiting judgment.

Just to add a little on the same note is that Sneddon has done a very good job recruiting year in and year out. I don't expect next years to be any different and I too will put my trust in Sneddon into he gives me reason otherwise

 

[grantfan]

Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

I wonder how many other players in the high school and midget games that the UVM coaches watched will be skating in Hockey East or Division I or college hockey in September?

Rob Madore was not crap on his USHL team. If you think White's 19 points and -35 say his team sucked, can one conclude he was one of the suckiest on his team? Or did everyone else suck and he was terrific?

You can like everything that Sneddon does, I think he's a pleasant guy to talk to, but I'm not a fan of his coaching and this is one of the silliest college hockey recruiting things I've seen in a long time.

Is a recruiting class good if 2 players turn into what they were supposed to be? Should a recruiting class include players that contribute as freshmen? Josh Franklin? Matt Marshall, a 20 year old freshman? Ben Albertson? Lance Herrington and Anders Franzon? Because this is not about the boys, I'll stop there. How many players do you recruit that you will NOT let play.

Every coach misses on recruited players and Sneddon is allowed that. But there are credentials that coaches can reasonably be fooled by and there are credentials coaches should never be fooled by. Prep school players and now midget (forget high school) players are credentials that should not fool Division I hockey coaches. Yet Sneddon gets fooled repeatedly by players that do not seem to fool others. This one MIGHT set the standard.

I agree, we'll see when he gets to Gutterson. But, Matt White does not have the credentials of Ben Albertson or even Josh Franklin or Matt Marshall. That is all I'm saying.

P.S. - Where is Chris Atkinson? I don't even see him at games anymore. Coach Sneddon used to love to talk about this young man, now he has evaporated without a word.

 

[boblav1]

Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

I wonder how many other players in the high school and midget games that the UVM coaches watched will be skating in Hockey East or Division I or college hockey in September?

FYI - From USHR:

White projects to be an effective two-way player with size and skating ability who will also provide some offense. There were a number of top schools interested in him last season when he was with Des Moines, but all except Vermont backed off when he returned to midgets.

 

[jcarter7669]

Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

FYI - From USHR:

Don't go bringing in pesky facts here, Grantfan has a good rant going.

 

[jcarter7669]

Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

Rob Madore was not crap on his USHL team. If you think White's 19 points and -35 say his team sucked, can one conclude he was one of the suckiest on his team? Or did everyone else suck and he was terrific?

Matt White was ranked 9th in scoring on that team with 19 points and was tops for his age, with the next 16 year old scoring 8 points with (3) 17, (3) 18, and 3 (19) year olds ahead of him. So no he was not the suckiest on his team, not by a long shot. And his -35 is a little overinflated, since there was not a single player on that team, NOT ONE SINGLE PLAYER that was a "+". The goalies were 4GAA, 4.7 GAA, and 5 GAA. I would say that putting up 19 points was tough to do as it appears most of the time on ice was spent withotu puck possession.

As for Madore, with the Steel, in 39 games he won 8, and had a 3.8GAA, the following season in 44 games he managed 22 wins and a 2.9 GAA. Those numbers are not stellar. Do you think Sneddon saw a good player on a bad team? Just maybe Sneddon recognized that it Rob was a good little goalie, but was just getting shelled night in and night out? And that maybe, just maybe he see White, shift after shift chasing the puck on defense and but everytime he gets the puck he actually scores, biasing the actual statistics? That maybe and other coaches in fact see some potential in White?

No, of course not, all you can see is that Sneddon is a nice guy and a horrible coach. Even though year after year after year we get decent recruiting classes.

 

[snwbrdr]

Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

Grantfan - your negativity towards our highly effective coach is palpable. Sneddon is the best thing that has happened to the program since it was started. Period. End of discussion.

Ditto for Fogel to the University by the way.

Can you imagine where this program would be if they had hired Grillo like the former players wanted?

UVM has been in the running for some of the absolute TOP recruits in recent years, and this continues. This is despite an average or less than average facility and the long commute to road games which can't be considered a positive attribute.

We need an upgraded facility (rink, locker rooms, weight/workout facilities) and if we get that and keep our coach we have a chance to be in the top tier of programs year in and year out.

I believe we have a former high school player who never played juniors/USHL on our team who is pretty effective.

Please keep your negativity towards our coach to complaining about the power play (the most relevant complaint you have) and wait to see what happens with Matt White before you write him off. He may end up being our best forward for the next four years. You never know.

 

[4th liner]

Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

Grantfan: P.S. - Where is Chris Atkinson? I don't even see him at games anymore. Coach Sneddon used to love to talk about this young man, now he has evaporated without a word.

FYI Chris Atkinson in BFP 12/31/09: Junior forward Chris Atkinson has left the University of Vermont men’s hockey team, head coach Kevin Sneddon confirmed Wednesday.
“Chris is taking a mutually agreed upon indefinite leave of absence to attend to personal matters,” Sneddon said.

 

[grantfan]

Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

4th liner, thanks, I neither saw that in the paper nor heard anyone mention it. I missed it.

Much like I miss the points on Matt White. I hope people might agree that not a lot of scholarships go to either USHL drop outs or high school/midget players. We got one and maybe he'll be the best player on the team the next 4 years. And maybe he'll leave early for the NHL.

jcarter, I'll trade wits with you. Project this kid any way you want, any way USHR projects, all schools backed off him. When I read that, I thought that was MY point. And who is the UVM player who didn't play juniors and is an effective player? Are you thinking of competent Kevan Miller - no Edwards, no Kessel, no Warsofsky, no Sneep, no Dehner, no Van Dyk, no Schaus, no Braun, no Shattenkirk, no Newton - or Cullity? Picking guys from this particular D corps is a tough call. Brett Leonard? Matt Marshall? Who?

Separately, to be clear, I have not liked how Sneddon has handled Wahs Stacey for some time now. A coach has to figure out how to reach players and I don't think Sneddon is good at that (Stacey and Lawson are obvious examples). Reading Ted Ryan's recent blog, I'm not sure I like how he handled Justin Milo either, a kid who seems to me to always work hard on the ice. I think Sneddon is a remarkably poor coach of PPs, though he never stops meddling. I think the 3 D - 2 freshman PP was a remarkably stupid idea and it either A) failed, or B) worked fabulously and was disbanded, your choice, fans. I think his handling of the goalies has been awful ever since he let Joe Fallon flounder for half a season and cost us a tournament bid. I think his recruiting a series of very young players from ridiculously low levels of play is very questionable and I think this Matt White deal is a joke, but we'll see. Those are my main beefs.

UVM Hockey to me is the boys that come to Burlington and play for the University, no matter how good or not good they may be. I like watching them play hockey. As coaches go, I like Mike Gilligan and I wish him well.

 

[GreenCat]

Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

Should be a good series with NU. Key tonight is to score first to take the wind out of NU who will likely come out fired up after some grilling by their coaching staff after their last couple of games. We really need to take 2 here and get some points in HE!!

 

[GreenCat]

Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

Should be a good series with NU. Key tonight is to score first to take the wind out of NU who will likely come out fired up after some grilling by their coaching staff after their last couple of games. We really need to take 2 here and get some points in HE!!

Well, that theory was a bust....

 

[snwbrdr]

Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

UVM did not move their feet enough to earn the Win

Having said that, NU did not impress at all either

Yet again, IMHO, the opposition won on better goaltending as UVM's was soft and Rawlings was impressive when tested (although not tested enough)

I really thought UVM would come out in the 3rd and storm them but they did not bring it enough

The seniors are just not getting it done to the extent I expected this season

tonight is a must win IMHO and should be very telling. If they can't get it done tonight and win the season series then my assessment is that they just are not able to play up to their ability as a team and I will stop hoping for the big winning streak in the second half that I had expected

 

[jcarter7669]

Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

Dissappointing loss.

 

[observer85]

Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

This weekends games are on paper 2 of the easier ones left on the schedule and you would think 4 points is very possible. NE is coming off a wasted 4 goal rally versus UML, and the Cats are on a 4 game winning streak.

Golden opportunity or letdown alert?

I am numb...total letdown...

In answer to your question...I like to think of the Glass as being half full...I would say this is a "Golden opportunity". The boys should be healthy and should be focused with 2 weeks of practice time.

As least the 1st period was a golden opportunity...but only 1 goal and Vermont dominated play...was it too easy that they let themselves believe it was going to be an "easy" W? They do not have the talent to allow for that to happen.

BC's current woes are not helping with the PWR situation but I expect they will get their act together soon - and hopefully against some of the teams the Cats are chasing in the standings.

BC helped UVM last night with their 6-1 win over Maine and we did not accept that help. UMass helped too, with their win over Lowell. Wasted opportunities...will kill this team...

or a win and a tie for 3 points...a tie would probably be considered by Northeastern as a "win" and by Vermont, a "loss". But it would give UVM 5 of the 6 available points. They need them...wins and points that is.

Forget that tie being a psychological "win"...a real win has to be a psychological lift for NU. UVM could still win tonight and come out of the series with 4 of 6 points. They got 4 of 6 vs. BC, so maybe that is what they have set out to accomplish this season.

I am thinking there might be some lineup changes tonight. Franzon should be in but for who? Perhaps Miller, Cullity or Medvec? That won't happen but then this coach has a unique finger on the pulse of his team. Forward changes...perhaps Leonard in for Marshall or Higgins? Leonard has been in the doghouse since his 15 minute penalty game vs. UNH. Time to get out? He did bring a level of energy in those 8 games he did dress for...

 

[VermontFan]

Re: 2009-2010 Official Vermont Season Thread : The Sequel

Disappointing loss last night. I just don't understand how we can play such a great game against UMD 2 weeks ago, but then have such a poor 2nd and 3rd period against a team that does not have the talent and pedigree of UMD. It looks like the team was a little off last night, passes were not accurate and they did not take advantage of quality scoring opportunities...a lot of that can be attributed to the solid defensive play of Northeastern (blocking shots, etc.).

Looked at the roster last night during the game, and noticed that Atkinson is no longer listed. Looks like we will not see him back this year.

We received a commitment from HT Lenz last yesterday, who just happens to play on the same team (and plays on the same line) as our prized recruit for next year, Connor Brickley.

Hoping for a win tonight.