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117th Congress: DEMS IN DISARRAY!!!111!!

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Deutsche Gopher Fan said:
Manchin pens op Ed and says he’s opposed to using budget reconciliation to pass infrastructure and will not get rid of filibuster under any circumstance.
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I do not know why he is going out of his way to destroy his own bargaining power. It is as if the GOP donors have already paid him off to be a fifth column within the Dem caucus.

We have to primary him with somebody who is identical except he (a white Christian male obviously) fulminates about using the power of gubmint to help noble white Christian male coal miners or some such Working Class Hero idiocy. We need a populist Huey Long fool to take him out but still hold the seat.
 
dxmnkd316 said:
Ouch.



I'm not sure if it's the best or worst thing to make this bill bloated as hell. I'm leaning worst because we need to show we can get things done but more importantly, it's about making sure the it can't be branded as the Dems are causing the deficit to rise on pork. That kills our chances in 2022 plus Manchin D(ip****)-WV would torpedo the bill anyways.

But maybe it's the best. Get everything we can into the bill since we're not getting it again.
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Normally I would say it is bad but in this case it is the only shot. The margins are razor thin and who knows what the world will be like in 2022. Biden needs people working and the economy on the rise and the best chance of that is passing bills like this. The COVID Bill proved people don't give a crap about the numbers if it is helping them, that is why the GOPers who voted against it are now taking credit for it. No one cares about the deficit if they are out of work or can't drink the water. That leaves "the Border" as their only talking point and while that is a pretty bad clusterfuck it doesn't seem to be getting the traction the GOP is begging for.

Manchin will cave, because WV needs the money. Biden has already said they are willing to negotiate the corporate tax rate down a bit which gives Manchin his out. (his major sticking point) Lyft has already come out in favor of it, if a few more companies back a higher corporate tax rate no one will complain and it will pass through Reconciliation and away we go.

The Midterms need to be the ultimate litmus test for the voters. Are they going to vote for the people who give them nothing, destroy their lives and bankrupt them or are they going to vote for the people who give them everything they need and actually pay for things? If there is a Red Wave then America is circling the drain to the point it might not be recoverable. Thankfully I don't think we are there yet.
 
Kepler said:
I do not know why he is going out of his way to destroy his own bargaining power. It is as if the GOP donors have already paid him off to be a fifth column within the Dem caucus.

We have to primary him with somebody who is identical except he (a white Christian male obviously) fulminates about using the power of gubmint to help noble white Christian male coal miners or some such Working Class Hero idiocy. We need a populist Huey Long fool to take him out but still hold the seat.
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Primarying him is a waste. It's a lost seat the minute he leaves. Hold the 50, grab Pennsylvania , Wisconsin and God willing some of NC, Florida, and Ohio, and make Manchin and Sinema irrelevant.
 
FadeToBlack&Gold said:
So basically, he wants nothing to get done. Great.
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No he just wants to kiss up to his corporate masters and get the 28% tax increase lowered. He will cave just like he did on COVID. I think even his Governor is saying something like this is needed.

Manchin is playing up his theater...but he is just Susan Collins with way better hair. He will vote for the bill and so will Sinema.

As for the Labor vs. Infrastructure argument...since they are already looking to split the bill up into two parts it seems it might not be the worst idea even it all out and maybe put part of the "labor" parts in the second bill. It isn't ideal but it would show 2 things: 1) Biden is willing to negotiate which apparently is important to Boomers (like my father) and 2) takes away the argument dx mentioned of "none of it is infrastructure it is all pork!!!1".

You know I wish Sicatoka was here because it would interesting to see him stroke out that Biden is going to give him what he was calling for back during Obama...a better electrical grid that will be more secure. Watching him either have to admit Biden is right OR flip flop completely would be delicious!
 
bronconick said:
Primarying him is a waste. It's a lost seat the minute he leaves. Hold the 50, grab Pennsylvania , Wisconsin and God willing some of NC, Florida, and Ohio, and make Manchin and Sinema irrelevant.
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Yeah...its either Manchin or a Republican. Since he doesnt seem likely to retire it is better to focus on making him and Sinema worthless. Though based on what people in AZ are saying they aren't exactly pleased with her these days so she might shift anyways if the Midterms go well and the Dems pick up a couple of seats.
 
I'm not going to argue that we shouldn't prosecute actual crime, but the very idea that we under-incarcerate is so absolutely mind-bogglingly insane to me that I don't even know how to discuss it. You may as well assert that gravity repels objects instead of attracts them, it's that objectively and demonstrably wrong.
 
Handyman said:
No he just wants to kiss up to his corporate masters and get the 28% tax increase lowered. He will cave just like he did on COVID. I think even his Governor is saying something like this is needed.

Manchin is playing up his theater...but he is just Susan Collins with way better hair. He will vote for the bill and so will Sinema.

As for the Labor vs. Infrastructure argument...since they are already looking to split the bill up into two parts it seems it might not be the worst idea even it all out and maybe put part of the "labor" parts in the second bill. It isn't ideal but it would show 2 things: 1) Biden is willing to negotiate which apparently is important to Boomers (like my father) and 2) takes away the argument dx mentioned of "none of it is infrastructure it is all pork!!!1".

You know I wish Sicatoka was here because it would interesting to see him stroke out that Biden is going to give him what he was calling for back during Obama...a better electrical grid that will be more secure. Watching him either have to admit Biden is right OR flip flop completely would be delicious!
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If they split it I bet right now that labor gets the shaft again.
 
Swansong said:
I'm not going to argue that we shouldn't prosecute actual crime, but the very idea that we under-incarcerate is so absolutely mind-bogglingly insane to me that I don't even know how to discuss it. You may as well assert that gravity repels objects instead of attracts them, it's that objectively and demonstrably wrong.
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But Tom Cotton saw a darkie out loose on the streets.
 
bronconick said:
Primarying him is a waste. It's a lost seat the minute he leaves. Hold the 50, grab Pennsylvania , Wisconsin and God willing some of NC, Florida, and Ohio, and make Manchin and Sinema irrelevant.
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Primarying works without getting rid of him. Putting the fear of god into him can move his "principled" stance on the filibuster. That's how Lindsey Fucking Graham became a hophead rightwing fanatic: terror from the flank.
 
ScoobyDoo said:
If they split it I bet right now that labor gets the shaft again.
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Yes. It breaks the cardinal rule of legislation: you hold the popular stupid part hostage to pass the unpopular smart part. That's how you get the morons to support stuff that's good for them.
 
Except the bill is likely splitting anyways. They aren't doing it to avoid the labor parts they are doing it because that is just their plan. (unless it changed in the last couple days) I am not saying make one bill all the Infrastructure and the other all Labor, that would definitely give labor the shaft. I am saying spread it out over both bills to make it easier to deal with.

Then again, much like everything Biden does (except the border) the people are in support of most of his bill anyways:

EydVOIGWUAIgr-Y
 
FadeToBlack&Gold said:
Because they know it's good for business in the long run. Boomers are out of their prime earning years and are exiting the workforce, so they are no longer the main drivers of the economy. The only big ticket purchases the majority of them will be making in the next 10-15 years are healthcare-related.
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Completely agree. That's my point.
 
Handyman said:
Except the bill is likely splitting anyways. They aren't doing it to avoid the labor parts they are doing it because that is just their plan. (unless it changed in the last couple days) I am not saying make one bill all the Infrastructure and the other all Labor, that would definitely give labor the shaft. I am saying spread it out over both bills to make it easier to deal with.

Then again, much like everything Biden does (except the border) the people are in support of most of his bill anyways:

EydVOIGWUAIgr-Y
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What the fuck? How is supporting medical manufacturing not at like 90%? Did I hallucinate the last 14 months?
 
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