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117th Congress: DEMS IN DISARRAY!!!111!!

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dxmnkd316 said:
My god she's breathtakingly bad at this

https://twitter.com/SenGillibrand/st...482607106?s=20
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Still not as bad as Roy Blunt. I damn near drove my work truck into a guardrail yelling at the radio when he was on CNBC a few days ago.

"I think there's an easy win here for the White House if they would take that win, which is make this an infrastructure package, which is about 30% — even if you stretch the definition of infrastructure some — it's about 30% of the $2.25 trillion we are talking about spending," Blunt said.

"If we'd go back and look at roads and bridges and ports and airports, and maybe even underground water systems and broadband, you'd still be talking about less than 30% of this entire package," he added.
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*MAYBE* add water and broadband?!? Maybe?!? Is that not infrastructure where you live Senator?

(Thats rhetorical, he's from Southwest Missouri, so I'm sure flush toilets and electric lights are a novelty to him).
 
How is broadband and water not infrastructure? I'll hang up and listen.

I actually agree with Gillibrand but it was stupid to say and I would never say it that way. The issue is how "labor" is completely dismissed from any discussion on anything. The labor force is infrastructure in my mind and anything that helps the labor force is reinforcing your infrastructure and making you a stronger country. It's the same way labor is shafted on taxes in relation to capital. It's BS.
 
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unofan said:
Thank God she flamed out in the primaries quickly. She's the left's equivalent of Rubio.
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Ouch.



I'm not sure if it's the best or worst thing to make this bill bloated as hell. I'm leaning worst because we need to show we can get things done but more importantly, it's about making sure the it can't be branded as the Dems are causing the deficit to rise on pork. That kills our chances in 2022 plus Manchin D(ipshit)-WV would torpedo the bill anyways.

But maybe it's the best. Get everything we can into the bill since we're not getting it again.
 
ScoobyDoo said:
How is broadband and water not infrastructure? I'll hang up and listen.

I actually agree with Gillibrand but it was stupid to say and I would never say it that way. The issue is how "labor" is completely dismissed from any discussion on anything. The labor force is infrastructure in my mind and anything that helps the labor force is reinforcing your infrastructure and making you a stronger country. It's the same way labor is shafted on taxes in relation to capital. It's BS.
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It's asinine to me not to include water in that list, but I do see (And strongly disagree) that broadband isn't one of the other basic utilities like electric, gas and water. You cannot be a part of 2021 without broadband access.
 
ScoobyDoo said:
How is broadband and water not infrastructure? I'll hang up and listen.

I actually agree with Gillibrand but it was stupid to say and I would never say it that way. The issue is how "labor" is completely dismissed from any discussion on anything. The labor force is infrastructure in my mind.
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No it's not. I agree that we should have mandatory paid leave, better child care, and better elder care, but the work force/"human capital" is not infrastructure, and it's freaking dumb to try to sell it as such.

A hospital or a preschool is infrastructure. A road, a dam, an airport, a railroad, a sewer, or a police station is infrastructure. The cops, teachers, nurses, and construction workers are not, nor are the textbooks, pencils, bullets, hammers, or other equipment that are used along with the infrastructure.
 
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Swansong said:
You cannot be a part of 2021 without broadband access.
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And I (agreeing with Gillibrand's sentiment, but not her messaging) see child care the same way. It's an enabling function that 1) allows our nation's educated couples to put their skills to use in the economy. Without a strong, at least subsidized if not outright nationalized, child care system, many otherwise very productive people will choose family over productivity. It also 2) enables low-skill workers time to pursue education (on top of their low-wage jobs) in order to grow into the higher-skill workers demanded by a 21st century economy. Right now, we have many companies totally dependent on H-1B visa holders because they can't find enough STEM-educated Americans. So lets give our workers a second chance to make it to that rung while they work and raise families, rather than writing them off since they didn't get that education right out of high school.
 
unofan said:
No it's not. I agree that we should have mandatory paid leave, better child care, and better elder care, but the work force/"human capital" is not infrastructure, and it's freaking dumb to try to sell it as such.

A hospital or a preschool is infrastructure. A road, a dam, an airport, a railroad, a sewer, or a police station is infrastructure. The cops, teachers, nurses, and construction workers are not, nor are the textbooks, pencils, bullets, hammers, or other equipment that are used along with the infrastructure.
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We'll agree to disagree. As long as we treat labor as second class citizen when it comes to taxes and policy the worse the country is going to get as far as the wealth gap is concerned. UBI is inevitable and it's mostly inevitable because our Capitalism policies are in and have been in epic failure mode for 40 years.
 
dxmnkd316 said:
Maybe, but I doubt it. I don't remember (because I have the attention span of a goldfish) a time like this where companies are having their feet held to the fire on social issues. Usually they stick to the tax laws like you said. Companies and entities are now publicly condemning and punishing this bad behavior.
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Because they know it's good for business in the long run. Boomers are out of their prime earning years and are exiting the workforce, so they are no longer the main drivers of the economy. The only big ticket purchases the majority of them will be making in the next 10-15 years are healthcare-related.
 
FadeToBlack&Gold said:
Because they know it's good for business in the long run. Boomers are out of their prime earning years and are exiting the workforce, so they are no longer the main drivers of the economy. The only big ticket purchases the majority of them will be making in the next 10-15 years are healthcare-related.
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How did this play out in the 80s & 90s when our parents took control from our grandparents? As we come to understand things better and realize that "same crap, different day" is very applicable to things like this, we'll realize that there will be rather abrupt 'shifts" made every 20-30 years as children grow up.

Pretty much every generation realizes that their parents were morons on some subjects. It'll happen to us around 2040 **shrug**.
 
ScoobyDoo said:
We'll agree to disagree. As long as we treat labor as second class citizen when it comes to taxes and policy the worse the country is going to get as far as the wealth gap is concerned. UBI is inevitable and it's mostly inevitable because our Capitalism policies are in and have been in epic failure mode for 40 years.
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I'm with unofan on this. Labor is not infrastructure, labor is labor. An equally important part of the whole, but a different and distinct part. I agree with you that we've treated labor like crap for too long.
 
FadeToBlack&Gold said:
Because they know it's good for business in the long run. Boomers are out of their prime earning years and are exiting the workforce, so they are no longer the main drivers of the economy. The only big ticket purchases the majority of them will be making in the next 10-15 years are healthcare-related.
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I agree with this. Being a selfish butthole is going out of style. The ethos that led to Reagan and Neo-Feudalism is dying out -- nobody under 40 is buying it except authoritarians and libertarians, and while the former group now seems to encompass the entire Right the latter is down to Penn and the douche who founded Reason.

This is going just like segregation went. One party (then the Dems, now the GOP) will hold on like grim death with their high pressure hoses and police dogs because they understand once them darkies get into the booth they are politically dead. There is a difference this time, though. In the 60s and 70s when the Dems shed their racist fleas the GOP was waiting with wagging tail to welcome them. This time they have nowhere to go. They are either going to have to retreat into the hills and become a cosplay paramilitary terrorist insurgency (and they are showing signs) or they are going to have to form their own Apartheid party under Dump or one of his ilk. Either way, they will now be easier to isolate, contain, and eradicate.
 
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Swansong said:
I'm with unofan on this. Labor is not infrastructure, labor is labor. An equally important part of the whole, but a different and distinct part. I agree with you that we've treated labor like crap for too long.
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That's good enough for me. We're just arguing silly definitions then.
 
FadeToBlack&Gold said:
Higher rate of incarceration than the next highest three - Cuba, El Salvador, and Turkmenistan. Great company.
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*three

archer-metric-system.png
 
FadeToBlack&Gold said:
So basically, he wants nothing to get done. Great.
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Yeah, Manchin is being stupid. There are ZERO Republicans that will work with Democrats. So, what Manchin should be doing instead of stroking out on his Turtle Boy Dreams is telling Biden and Schumer what he will vote for sans Republicans.
 
Swansong said:
Agreed, this is a semantic difference.

Labor and infrastructure need to go hand in hand. Infrastructure depends on labor.
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Exactly.

"Air quality is an issue for human health and so has bearing on HHS."

"Well, actually, air quality falls under the EPA."

"And your point is?"

"(pause) Never mind."
 
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