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0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

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Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Fair enough. The truth is none of us know how a gun ban would turn out. I’m reasonable enough to admit as such unlike the vast majority on here.

Except that there is real data that shows that the crime rate will not rise. So there's REAL data that suggests that you are wrong.

If you are just guessing, yes, nobody would know how something turns out. When you have data, then you have a good idea how it would turn out.
 
Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Except that there is real data that shows that the crime rate will not rise. So there's REAL data that suggests that you are wrong.

If you are just guessing, yes, nobody would know how something turns out. When you have data, then you have a good idea how it would turn out.
He knows the data and is just arguing in bad faith. None of the other developed countries have the gun homicide rate or number of mass shootings that we have here and at this point he might as well be arguing that climate change is fake news or that the CIA is developing a bomb that turns the frogs gay. There's no evidence that crime is significantly higher in those countries either (much less because people can't legally buy an AR-15). Also I'm sure he has a great grasp of how homogeneous Australia is.
 
Easy and relevant are two completely different things. Australia really is nothing like us except being in the developed world. They have less than 10% the population we do, the weather is much better, the economy is significantly better, and it is much more homogenous.

And founded as a colony of criminals and degenerates. And yet, they don't go around killing each other
 
Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

The pervasiveness of the tobacco culture of the 60s and 70s is similar to that of guns today. The industry is fighting facts in a similar manner. The only difference is that there is a voting block that is looking to obstruct progress. Getting over the tobacco addiction took changes in places where it was used. Once indoor places said 'no thanks', society did as well. Hence retracting C&C, a major factor behind the gun culture, is a significant start.

The broader point is ending the tobacco and slavery addictions took massive changes. The same holds for the gun addiction. We can do it. But as with other societal calamities, limiting purchase of guns for a segment or adding a few more background checks will do nothing.
Maybe I am older than you but I can distinctly recall this being an issue in local elections at least. Tobacco was pervasive. It wasn't just the users and it was much more complex than people deciding not to let folks smoke inside. The industry had convinced the medical establishment that tobacco was OK. It was intertwined in culture and in the economics- tobacco tax, $$ in bars, in convenience stores, liquor stores.... There were a lot of people that argued if it was banned it would cause too much financial distress.

How do you count something that didn’t happen? People can believe whatever they want, but I think if guns were greatly reduced/banned average people would face significantly more crime.
This reminds me of dealing with my smoking patients/alcoholics who would tell me all day long that no matter how many objective things I showed them to prove to them their drug was harming them, they had a deep belief that their gut feeling had to be right. They wanted to believe what they knew to be true (even if it wasn't) because they had believed it for a long time.

Past feeling alarmist, look at it logically.

The stats of having guns increases risk. One could extrapolate from the facts- if we remove or decrease the exposure to the risk, the morbidity and mortality would decrease. I know they sell the goods about how bad and scary the world is but the stats for actual encounters with someone you need to defend yourself from are minuscule. Not only that, but people who attempt to use the gun in self defense statistically usually don't end up well. So the risk v benefit for protection is not statistically born out.

If you argue that the threat of a gun will stop people~ Consequence as a deterrent doesn't really work well. This is something they have done psych research on for yrs. Threatening people they will get the death penalty doesn't stop the person one bit. Telling people they could die if they drive drunk- nope. Telling people to not smoke or they will get medical issues- nope. 3 strikes and you go to jail- Nope. Telling people they might run into a homeowner with a gun- nope again. If they have decided to act then they will tell you all the reasons it isn't a threat to them because they are too smart, etc.

The vast majority of the country living in cities and towns have managed to live for centuries without packing a weapon in the civilized parts. (wild west doesn't count) The crime stats have shown decreased violent crime ~trending down for some time. At the same time people's perceptions are that the rate is increasing (hmmmm, I wonder why that is....)

I am curious if you think our country is so depraved that the only reason we aren't killing each other is because someone will shoot us if we try. Personally I don't believe that. The guns really haven't been shown to provide any benefit except giving people a false sense of security (in medicine- placebo affect). More guns has not been a good idea. The stats are worse.
 
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Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

If this has already been posted in another thread my apologies. Apparently some MI university decided that pucks are the best way to stop mass shootings:
https://www.npr.org/2018/11/28/6713...e-shooters-mich-school-hands-out-hockey-pucks
Hockey pucks: They're small and heavy and — one Michigan college thinks — may be the perfect weapon against an active shooter on campus.

Oakland University, a public school in Rochester Hills, near Detroit, is distributing thousands of 94-cent hockey pucks for just that reason.

The distribution, which began earlier this month, stemmed from a March faculty active-shooter training session, which followed February's shooting at a Parkland, Fla., high school that left 17 dead.

A participant at the training asked Oakland University Police Chief Mark Gordon what items people could use to defend themselves on the campus, which has a no-weapons policy, the Detroit Free Press reports.

A hockey puck was a "spur-of-the-moment idea that seemed to have some merit to it, and it kind of caught on," Gordon said.
 
Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

OU should've just issued every student a Glock. "Good guy with a gun..." and all that claptrap.
 
Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Wouldn't the hockey puck then be considered a weapon, and therefore banned?
 
Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Wouldn't the hockey puck then be considered a weapon, and therefore banned?

Should be, but I'm guessing an exception was made.

FWIW, I did my MS at Oakland. It's 15 mins down the road from where I live.
 
Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Wouldn't the hockey puck then be considered a weapon, and therefore banned?

Pucks are certainly used as weapons by UND players: they always aim them toward the center of body mass.
 
Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-cards="hidden" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Emantic Bradford was fatally shot by police as he directed shoppers to safety during a mall shooting on Thanksgiving in Alabama. An autopsy now shows he was shot from behind. <a href="https://t.co/NeZSgNcPHo">https://t.co/NeZSgNcPHo</a></p>— HuffPost (@HuffPost) <a href="https://twitter.com/HuffPost/status/1070040097591046149?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 4, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Shot three times from behind actually
 
Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Not a mass shooting but now they have killed a Viet Nam Vet who'd called the police about an intruder. Guy was hard of hearing and never heard them telling him to drop his weapon. :( we are one really effed up country. When did we figure that we should shoot anything that moved?
 
Not a mass shooting but now they have killed a Viet Nam Vet who'd called the police about an intruder. Guy was hard of hearing and never heard them telling him to drop his weapon. :( we are one really effed up country. When did we figure that we should shoot anything that moved?

When we started hiring cops straight from combat zones.
 
Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

When we started hiring cops straight from combat zones.

So sad. On some level I can understand. The general culture has become so accepting of people using guns as an answer if I was a police person I would be the other side of paranoid.
 
Re: 0 Days Since Last Shooting: Keep The Calendar At Zero

Not a mass shooting but now they have killed a Viet Nam Vet who'd called the police about an intruder. Guy was hard of hearing and never heard them telling him to drop his weapon. :( we are one really effed up country. When did we figure that we should shoot anything that moved?

I might have heard this wrong, but I thought I heard this was the second shooting for this cop in the last month. Apparently a fairly short "administrative leave."
 
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