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UNH- How Far West Do We Go?

FlagUp17 said:
Heading into this year, I would have agreed with you, albeit their performance in the NCAAs has left a lot to be desired the last few seasons. Still, making hay in HE is WAY more than we can say over the last 10+ years.

This year has obviously been a bit more of a struggle for them, as evidenced by our sweeping them at home, and also a recent sweep (borderline trouncing) at the hands of a good PU team. Even still, Barr was able to get them re-motivated after the sweep by UNH, and they started out the year strong with an almost sweep of DU in Denver.

As has been discussed in various places, I think the league didn’t quite know how to predict the influence of the Canadian league players on college hockey, and that has positively impacted some programs, while also negatively impacting others. I’m not as well versed on what may be impacting Maines performance this year vs last, but whatever it may be, I imagine Barr will make the necessary adjustments heading into next year and will likely rebound.

The (I believe) small percentage chance he does not rebound has me hesitate for a minute to put him in the same class as Cignetti. I’ll hold judgement to see how next year goes for them (or if they go on an absolute tear this year and make a deep run in the NCAAs).
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Yeah, I agree, I also suspect Barr will bounce back ... his programs have always done so in the past, and he will likely adjust to the new D-1 realities. The road to the top doesn't always follow a straight line, but he's been down that road before, and I'm pretty sure he hasn't lost the road map.

FlagUp17 said:
We will have to see how UNH responds, as it appears MS7 is leaning more heavily into the Canadian players with a few new recruits, and also cutting ties (maybe?) with older recruits that were agreed upon prior to the Canadian league change.

I’d be curious if, at seasons end, MS7 uses the Canadian recruits as a bit of a “lifeline” to buy some more time - basically saying this recruiting avenue is still new and we are building out a plan with them and jut need some more time. I’ll give it to him the recruiting has seemed to improve on paper a bit, and perhaps in spurts early in the season with on-ice success. Nonetheless, the “on paper” needs to more consistently translate to “on ice” sooner rather than later…
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So, putting aside some of the emotion that creeps into the MS7 analysis for a moment ... objectively, the current recruiting strategy reminds me of the path trodden a decade or so ago by Normie at UMass Lowell, which centered primarily around older players, and also benefitted from the crown jewel that was Hellebuyck, when they made deep postseason runs. Unfortunately, I don't see a decade-long mediocrity like Souza having the gravitas to attract his own Hellebuyck, whereas Bazin got the real Hellebuyck in the door at the start of his tenure, before any deeply-rooted patterns had been established with his new program. So I see the ceiling of the UNH program under Souza as being a mid-table Bazin/Lowell ceiling tops, without a Hellebuyck peak, and with Bazin as a superior head coach to begin with.

In the past, not too far into the Bazin regime, I often wondered if Bazin might become the "next Umile", as the guy who came close repeatedly but never got over the hump. Ironically, here I am comparing the not-so-prime Bazin with Umile's actual successor. Bazin has clearly fallen off from his apex seasons at the start of his career, and his compressed period of success would have to be flattered in comparison to Umile's more extended run of contention ... but Bazin is still light years ahead of where Souza has been, and I can't even begin to imagine Souza outlasting Bazin in their respective posts. Anyway ...

... Souza will make his arguments, I totally agree he will lead with the "changing landscape" argument as you've outlined, it's not like there is much else to lead with otherwise. At least this time around, there is Jimmy T. in place to provide sober guidance to the AD f/k/a SB on MS7's contractual fate. For that reason alone, unless Souza can demonstrably turn the program around in a good way this year or next, I don't see another extension forthcoming. JMHO.
 
Robert Balin said:
CHC has confirmed 2026 recruit Nico Tournas has signed his financial aid package and should be ready to go next year that's big. 2027-2028 recruit defenseman Xavier Cormier is having a nice rookie year in the QMJHL has 16 points in 32 games and is a +13 looks like a real promising recruit.
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This is excellent news.

I am most curious to see what happens with this year's batch of CHL enrollees and if they will stick around after this first season. If they do, and add Tournas, they will have a solid group that on paper should be competitive. I suspect the results from here-on-out will guide their decision. Getting pummeled across New England for the next 7 weeks will make whatever offers these kids receive seem much more appealing than returning to Durham.
 
Chuck Murray said:
... Souza will make his arguments, I totally agree he will lead with the "changing landscape" argument as you've outlined, it's not like there is much else to lead with otherwise.
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I always find this sort of argument to be lacking. It is the equivalent of a football team complaining about the weather, did the other team not need to play in the same weather. Sure the recruiting landscape changed, did it only change of UNH?

Chuck Murray said:
At least this time around, there is Jimmy T. in place to provide sober guidance to the AD f/k/a SB on MS7's contractual fate. For that reason alone, unless Souza can demonstrably turn the program around in a good way this year or next, I don't see another extension forthcoming. JMHO.
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Jim T. is in an interesting position. When Colin Shank did this under Umile it always felt like Colin worked for Umile doing logistics. Back before MS7 decided he didn't want accountability and had Blue Skies kill the FOH, Colin always had one of the best talks/presentations. I can see why he is now the Director of Leadership Giving, Athletics. Very comfortable presenting and interacting with the FOH group.

Anybody know:
  1. Did Colin report to Umile or Blue Skies
  2. Is the role Jim T. plays now the same or added responsibility in someway
  3. Who does Jim T. work for, MS7 or the AD?
Really just curious.
 
Chuck Murray said:
So, putting aside some of the emotion that creeps into the MS7 analysis for a moment ... objectively, the current recruiting strategy reminds me of the path trodden a decade or so ago by Normie at UMass Lowell, which centered primarily around older players, and also benefitted from the crown jewel that was Hellebuyck, when they made deep postseason runs. Unfortunately, I don't see a decade-long mediocrity like Souza having the gravitas to attract his own Hellebuyck, whereas Bazin got the real Hellebuyck in the door at the start of his tenure, before any deeply-rooted patterns had been established with his new program. So I see the ceiling of the UNH program under Souza as being a mid-table Bazin/Lowell ceiling tops, without a Hellebuyck peak, and with Bazin as a superior head coach to begin with.
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I almost think of Bazin as the Mike Tomlin for college hockey. He had some great years with a star player or 2 (Big Ben years for Tomlin, Hellebuyck and surrounding years for Bazin) but outside of that he’s mostly been average: never really good, but also never truly abysmal (Bazin’s one exception that comes to mind is the season we beat them in the opening round (2023-2024), but they had a ton of injuries that year, and there’s only so much you can do in college hockey to overcome that due to limited roster size etc). Nonetheless, there’s something to be said for consistency, and both of those coaches have maintained this for an extended period of time. That is not an easy thing to do.

Bazin was a master before the portal at snatching up older and bigger guys who may have fallen out of favor at their current big name school, or perhaps were told they needed to play another year of Juniors when they wanted to matriculate to college. The one instance that comes to mind where UNH did this was with Gildon (2017-2018 timeframe) when he decommited from Wisconsin (I think?) and came to UNH that fall.

You wonder with the portal how much this has impacted Bazin’s strategy. And now moreso with the Canadian leagues how he may respond. Time will tell…
 
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Chuck Murray said:
... Souza will make his arguments, I totally agree he will lead with the "changing landscape" argument as you've outlined, it's not like there is much else to lead with otherwise. At least this time around, there is Jimmy T. in place to provide sober guidance to the AD f/k/a SB on MS7's contractual fate. For that reason alone, unless Souza can demonstrably turn the program around in a good way this year or next, I don't see another extension forthcoming. JMHO.
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Outside of a total nuclear meltdown the rest of the year (max 2 wins, and a lack of competitiveness in the remaining games - like this past weekend with a -7 goal differential) I think MS7 will get to stay for his final year on the current contract. The recent news from CHC and Robert Balin on Tournas signing his financial aid package is promising, as he looks to be someone who you can truly build around. Hopefully most of the CHLers will choose to stay, but I agree I think it is very dependent on how competitive we are over the next 2 months.

This weekend vs BC will be the next test…
 
FlagUp17 said:
Bazin was a master before the portal at snatching up older and bigger guys who may have fallen out of favor at their current big name school, or perhaps were told they needed to play another year of Juniors when they wanted to matriculate to college. The one instance that comes to mind where UNH did this was with Gildon (2017-2018 timeframe) when he decommited from Wisconsin (I think?) and came to UNH that fall.
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I believe Lavins was also told by St Cloud St he needed another year before joining which prompted his move to UNH.
 
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UNH is only going to get so far on a recruiting strategy that largely depends upon scooping up everyone else's "surplus to requirements" players, especially when the current coaching staff has no demonstrable history of developing the talent they bring in. You'll be in the bottom tier of HEA, every single season.

Which is exactly where the program had regularly resided for most of this past ten or so seasons. It's not about buildings, it's about people. End of.
 
JB said:
It is the equivalent of a football team complaining about the weather, did the other team not need to play in the same weather.
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Sorry your complete lack of insight is remarkable. Just zero acknowledgement of the realities associated with being a coach of an underfunded program like UNH and competing against well funded programs like UConn, BC, BU, Providence and NU. The field is not level. UNH is ALWAYS behind because of a lack of resources. The notion that changing head coaches is going to change the program without conducting a full program analysis to address the larger problems is silly.
 
Chuck Murray said:
UNH is only going to get so far on a recruiting strategy that largely depends upon scooping up everyone else's "surplus to requirements" players, especially when the current coaching staff has no demonstrable history of developing the talent they bring in. You'll be in the bottom tier of HEA, every single season.

Which is exactly where the program had regularly resided for most of this past ten or so seasons. It's not about buildings, it's about people. End of.
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The lack of development to me is probably the most concerning part of this staff failing. That is also reflected in the recruiting. A giant piece of a coach selling his program is selling the staff. The high end talent wants to know they are going to develop and have a shot at the next level. If you don't have a field of active NHLers to point to you need to be able to point at year over year improvement of the current/recent roster(s).
 
JB said:
The lack of development to me is probably the most concerning part of this staff failing. That is also reflected in the recruiting. A giant piece of a coach selling his program is selling the staff. The high end talent wants to know they are going to develop and have a shot at the next level. If you don't have a field of active NHLers to point to you need to be able to point at year over year improvement of the current/recent roster(s).
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Elwood, just curious since you are such an authority, can you list the names of the players you have recruited?

When you arrive at the number zero, please respond.
 
Chuck Murray said:
It's not about buildings, it's about people. End of.
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Buford, it's about a PROGRAM. Separate identifiable moving parts designed for success on the ice for the team and the individual development of the players.

Can you please tell me about UNH hockey's strength program? Does the program have a dedicated coach? Tell us about the supporting weight room and compare it to PC, BC, BU, UConn, NU and even Maine.

What about player nutrition? Who advises the hockey players?

What about academic support services? Who advises the hockey players?

What about training facilities for injuries, rest and recovery? We both know that answer to that question.

Recruits, their families and, yeah, their "advisors" ask detailed questions about these things. They find those subjects very interesting and are savvy at seeing through the Tony Robbins inspired recruiting pitches.

They are not interested in the 1979 ECAC tourney, Rod Langway, or the good old days of 1999.
 
Potluck said:
Buford, it's about a PROGRAM. Separate identifiable moving parts designed for success on the ice for the team and the individual development of the players.

Can you please tell me about UNH hockey's strength program? Does the program have a dedicated coach? Tell us about the supporting weight room and compare it to PC, BC, BU, UConn, NU and even Maine.

What about player nutrition? Who advises the hockey players?

What about academic support services? Who advises the hockey players?

What about training facilities for injuries, rest and recovery? We both know that answer to that question.

Recruits, their families and, yeah, their "advisors" ask detailed questions about these things. They find those subjects very interesting and are savvy at seeing through the Tony Robbins inspired recruiting pitches.

They are not interested in the 1979 ECAC tourney, Rod Langway, or the good old days of 1999.
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Q: How much is Souza paying you to run cover for him? Really, how much?? is money involved, or is it some kind of barter or like-kind contributions???

The guy who should be able to answer those questions is the head coach himself. If there is a need for his program, then he should be advocating for it. His sugar daddy TDL can't even be forced to part with his pledged funds for the renovations/upgrades he has promised to kick in for.

Maybe someone should ask TDL what the holdup is for his pledged renovations, he made the pledge over two years ago ... maybe the bloom is off the rose, once a lifelong hustler like TDL got a glimpse of MS7 busting hump for his extension, then snoozing after it was secured two summers ago???

A few years ago, MS7 could (should) have advocated for keeping FOH alive ... but he didn't. Now, how he wishes he had. Maybe he should tell his boss that if she's not gonna get him the stuff he needs, he's gonna go rogue and get it himself. Start up his own FOH, with TDL at the forefront. Or talk with the folks who are already in full-time positions in UNH Athletics who have some of these skills, dedicated elsewhere?? Be demanding, be creative, be the squeaky wheel, ferchrissakes - do something!!!

Y'know, rather than just mope and hide, and make constant excuses about how he needs more stuff, just because.

Here's a strength coach describing how his collaboration with one of Coach Umile's peers led his program. No "Mother may I?" involved. Listen to Boyle's testimonial, and ask yourself ... is this anything that MS7 could have done or said on his own, on his program's behalf?!? I very much doubt it ...

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Looking ahead to this home-and-home with BC is difficult to predict, especially after the debacle last weekend. Certainly if they play as they did last weekend, they will lose both games by more than what they did against NU (I’d say -9ish goal differential). UNH has played up to better opponents earlier this season (Maine, Dartmouth, MSU) so I’m gonna stay optimistic they sneak one out.

GM1: UNH 3 BC 2 (OT)
GM2: UNH 1 BC 4

UNH surprises BC by coming out hot tomorrow, angry after their previous weekend results. BC gets their act together on Saturday and brings their A game to Durham. UNH has typically played better on Friday’s, and also better on the road.

2 out of 6 points isn’t great, but it’s ALOT better than the goose egg we got last weekend. As always, the more the merrier!

If they are able to get 4+ points this weekend, I think it can be a real confidence boost to carry them forward. One can only hope. Gotta stay positive!
 
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FlagUp17 said:
Looking ahead to this home-and-home with BC is difficult to predict, especially after the debacle last weekend. Certainly if they play as they did last weekend, they will lose both games by more than what they did against NU (I’d say -9ish goal differential). UNH has played up to better opponents earlier this season (Maine, Dartmouth, MSU) so I’m gonna stay optimistic they sneak one against.

GM1: UNH 3 BC 2 (OT)
GM2: UNH 1 BC 4

UNH surprises BC by coming out hot tomorrow, angry after their previous weekend results. BC gets their act together on Saturday and brings their A game to Durham. UNH has typically played better on Friday’s, and also better on the road.

2 out of 6 points isn’t great, but it’s ALOT better than the good egg we got last weekend. As always, the more the merrier!

If they are able to get 4+ points this weekend, I think it can be a real confidence boost to carry them forward. One can only hope. Gotta stay positive!
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Hope you're right, nothing wrong with being positive and optimistic. Once upon a time, I was like you are now ...
 
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