Dump Term 2, Part 2: "A third term would be a big shattering."

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

The mistake you make is you think any can be turned, but they have been brainwashed to never vote Dem. It takes a decade at least to fix that and we haven't even started. Trump told them he would screw them and they put him in anyways. 1932 Germany was different...this is closer to modern day Belfast. While they have a dual government that sometimes functions (Irish and British each elect one leader) the truth is the city is completely divided (by phucking walls!!) and no Irishman would vote for a Unionist because they are considered British. (Even if they were born in the North of Ireland and always lived there...and vice versa which is why Bushmills never flies the Republic Flag) Nothing will change that...even when Irish Reunification happens likely at the end of the decade. Its too tribal and the distrust is too high. They have been raised to never switch sides and they never will. That is who we are now and that won't change. We need to stop pretending...

There is a reason the elected Dems have the worst approval rating in history...because they don't stand with what the people want. The people want what we progressives offer, so its time for the Party to shift Left. You dont do that by bringing in the Right you do it by fighting them. Zohran proved it can work...so lets try that instead of the same bs we have done since Mondale lost.

This. This this this this this this this!

Fuck the milquetoast centrist billionaires, stop pretending you can flip the Religious Right when they see how un-Christian the right actually is (they never will), and go full TR/FDR on the bit. Stop catering to 50+ year-olds with "concerns" about being too progressive

 

[MissThundercat]

New SNAP guidelines tell recipients if they want candy, pop, etc, "you should have thought of that before you became peasants."

 

[psych]

They don't need to stick around if they can get the party further and further away from MAGA. While things have gone downhill since Reagan if not Nixon, I'd still rather see a congress half-filled with 80's Republicans than the fascist fucks of the 2020's.

Me too, but that’s not what we’re seeing. Stealing everything not nailed down and being polite about it was the GOP until Trump, and now that they’re stealing everything, including what is nailed down, while being openly hostile and assholes about it, and people still voted for that, why go back to the old ways? The Republican Party is moving further right…the “centrist” Republicans have left and become fake Democrats, minus the ones who have idiots for voters like Collins in Maine.
Again, yes, I want Kristol and Cheney to continue voting for Democrats. We need all the voters we can get against fascism even though we lost the most significant election since the 1860s with their help. As a progressive Democrat living in Kentucky, I understand pragmatism. I just don’t think Kinzinger, Cheney, Duncan etc. are going to successfully return the GOP to their old ways when we’ve witnessed what we have. Why rely on that? Mamdani, AOC, etc. That’s the way.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

New SNAP guidelines tell recipients if they want candy, pop, etc, "you should have thought of that before you became peasants."

We need all those future factory workers lean and limber.

 

[Kepler]

I don't think MAGAts can be turned and I never said they could. I'm giving up, I am clearly not communicating well. I think everything I have been trying to say is, while new, sufficient, but the responses (which are multiply endorsed) aren't anywhere close to engaging with it, they keep falling back into the same old channels that we have all been over a thousand times and agree on. That isn't what I'm saying, but fuck it. This is on me for sucking.

 

[psych]

That isn't going to happen.

He's not pushing us anywhere. Give us more credit than that; we have agency. Democrats can be Marxists in Manhattan, Liberals in Las Cruces, and Birch Bayh Blue Dogs in Baton Rouge.

If we pick up a seat we would not have gotten otherwise, good.
More importantly, if we pick up campaign workers and donors we would not have gotten otherwise, good.
Most importantly, if we pick up voters would not have gotten otherwise, good.

In a tribalist world, the key is to break the derps' unconscious psychic equivalence of REPUBLICAN/GOD ANNOINTED and DEMOCRAT/DEMONIC. Their apostates help.

This post…”most importantly, if we pick up voters [we] would not have gotten otherwise, good.”
We’re all telling you that’s not going to happen. You know why? They’ve already joined us. They voted with us in 2024. We still lost. Geoff Duncan isn’t flipping voters to the Democrats. Why? He didn’t in 2024. We lost his state.
If Geoff Duncan and Bill Kristol want to try convincing voters to vote Democrat, outstanding!! I’m all for it. Vote with us again too! Love it! I just don’t think it’ll amount to a hill of beans, because it already hasn’t. But try, try away. Just…you get nothing in return. No seat at the table.
A reporter or pundit says to Mamdani “Hey, Bill Kristol is still a piece of shit”, you know what Mamdani should say? “You’re absolutely right. He is a piece of shit. Bill and his ilk can stand at the doorway of the tent, ready to leave once a better opportunity presents itself.” If that makes Bill Kristol not vote Democrat anymore because his feelings are hurt? Fuck you, Bill, you spineless snowflake. You’re suggesting we work with these people outside prying eyes. I’m saying we don’t want to work with them at all. I get your message, I just strongly disagree with it.

 

[Handyman]

No we get what you are saying, you are communicating it fine. We just are done with that sort of thinking because it has proven ineffectual. The type of pragmatism you are hoping for doesn't exist in a society this divided. You want the "All of Us vs. Them" fight to protect the Republic and in theory that is the way to do it except that there is no "enemy of my enemy is my friend" in the real world when things are like this. You aren't alone, plenty of former Lefty channels like TYT say the same thing. They advocate for "finding the things we can agree on and making a coalition" but in the modern world that is naive at best and flat out dangerous at worst. Sure Tucker Carlson might be in agreement with me on an issue but I am not going to invite him into the tent because of it. I will not risk poisoning The Resistance with evil in the hopes they do the right thing when called upon...because they wont. And even if they do...having someone like Adam Kinzinger with us is an insult to the people who truly support Democrats. The guy is a fundamentalist who is only out of the party because he supported Impeachment after 1/6. Same with Liz Cheney and most of the other ones. If they want to fight alongside us fine...they can be with The Lincoln Project and try and force a schism. Pretending they are Democrats even for the purposes of fighting Trump is a recipe for disaster. Cheney lost a basically bought seat for a reason...the voters dont care about the elected peons they only care about themselves and The King.

You kind of remind me of the Meidas Touch people (who I happen to like overall) in that you think anything that is being done or said by Trump or the people who support him will change anything...which it does not. All those people who say "I am out" go back eventually because they realize their hatred supersedes their self interest. The people who hated him on January 7th love him again and always will.

Embracing our former enemies is not an option anymore. The GOP in total needs to be persona non grata in society as a whole at this point and you kill that by embracing them. This is not Operation Paperclip, we can't just bring in a bunch of Nazis for our own needs and hope no one cares or notices...they do. And for the Dem coalition to hold we need to expel this notion that there is winnable votes on the Center Right/Right and embrace them to join us. There isn't and even if there was they wont.

We need to stop pretending there is a difference between the GOP Voter/Elected Official and MAGA. MAGA is the GOP now and forever. There is no more moderates no matter how much The Media and the Elder Dems like Biden pretend there is. They are all Trump and need to be painted as such even after Trump tires of them and disavows them. If they want to publicly self flagellate they can do that all day long and I will be happy to watch it. There isn't enough begging and atoning though to make up for what we have done. They are all Enemies of the Republic and they shall reap what they sowed. Let them start a podcast but keep them away from anything Democratic or you will kill any shot we have of winning. You might win the battle but we will all lose the war.

 

[psych]

I beat you, Handy!

 

[Handyman]

This post…”most importantly, if we pick up voters [we] would not have gotten otherwise, good.”
We’re all telling you that’s not going to happen. You know why? They’ve already joined us. They voted with us in 2024. We still lost. Geoff Duncan isn’t flipping voters to the Democrats. Why? He didn’t in 2024. We lost his state.
If Geoff Duncan and Bill Kristol want to try convincing voters to vote Democrat, outstanding!! I’m all for it. Vote with us again too! Love it! I just don’t think it’ll amount to a hill of beans, because it already hasn’t. But try, try away. Just…you get nothing in return. No seat at the table.
A reporter or pundit says to Mamdani “Hey, Bill Kristol is still a piece of shit”, you know what Mamdani should say? “You’re absolutely right. He is a piece of shit. Bill and his ilk can stand at the doorway of the tent, ready to leave once a better opportunity presents itself.” If that makes Bill Kristol not vote Democrat anymore because his feelings are hurt? Fuck you, Bill, you spineless snowflake. You’re suggesting we work with these people outside prying eyes. I’m saying we don’t want to work with them at all. I get your message, I just strongly disagree with it.

Jesus Christ THIS! They can vote Dem all they want...they get zero credit for it and they are still not with us. They deserve no accolades, they should not be embraced as allies and it should be noted every time they show their face how they caused this to happen.

We didn't lose because we ignored the Moderate Republican we lost because too many on the Left stayed home because we ignored our voters.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Bingo.

 

[Kepler]

No we get what you are saying, you are communicating it fine.

No, you don't, because nothing you say after has the least bearing on what I am suggesting; you're pounding nails into the dirt miles from where the cross is.

Please just forget it. I'm with you all the way, no fear.

 

[Handyman]

Bluesky

bsky.app

 

[ScoobyDoo]

The problem is MAGA can get the hard right, the mid right, and the moderate right to fall in line. Democrats can't. They're either losing the moderates, or they're losing the hard lefties. And when there is a cave it is always to the moderates, and the moderates NEVER EVER pay back the hard core liberals.

MAGA has payoff in spades for their hard right;.

 

[Handyman]

 

[Slap Shot]

You're all way over complicating this. The elephant in the room is if the Dems put forth a competent male in 2016 and 2024 we're likely in a very different place. Too many voters simply will not vote for a woman for POTUS.

 

[Handyman]

That is a problem too...which as a Democrat is a stinging indictment. But to be fair Hillary had (bs) baggage from 20+ years of attacks and Kamala was being destroyed for not splitting with Biden on Gaza. But the misogyny is real.

I disagree though on 2024...I don't think Trump was losing that one too many people were ticked and not seeing the great economy that the numbers showed. (like now) Throw in Biden's terrible Israel strategy and it was a recipe for disaster.

 

[Slap Shot]

I see your point but 2024 was close enough that a competent male candidate might have made the difference. Might have.
___

Washington Post Opinions (@postopinions) on Threads

"Calling Kennedy’s latest actions shortsighted understates the gravity of his slander," the Editorial Board writes. https://wapo.st/45DVXkT

www.threads.com

And for the party that insisted on DOGE they sure don't mind wasting money on stupid shit-

MeidasTouch (@meidastouch) on Threads

NEWS: Trump’s DOJ has launched a criminal investigation into the New York Attorney General’s office over civil lawsuits AG Letitia James brought against Donald Trump and the NRA.

www.threads.com

 

[Kepler]

Throw in Biden's terrible Israel strategy

Was there a good Israel strategy, though?

We had painted ourselves into a corner by being their weapon sugar daddy for 60 years to keep the oil flowing. What was anybody going to do? Typically when you have an ally who goes insane you can threaten to pull up stakes or even switch sides. The Israelis understand with the way lobbying and media work in the US that is never an option. Given how we sold supporting Israel to the public as an Imperative Moral Crusade, we can't go back without both parties admitting, "Oh, that stuff we told you since the 50s? That was all lies. It was just geopolitics and the equations have changed. Sorry."

This is not like freezing out the Germans in the 30s despite there being a huge and politically savvy German population in the US. Pointing out Israel's crimes has always been a third rail here for various reasons, a few laudable, most deeply cynical.

Without a plausible threat of withdrawing support and/or backing a different regional power, the US had (has) no way to control Israel. We have no choice but to keep shoveling money and arms into that black hole. It's like shoring up New Orleans.

 

[LynahFan]

Was there a good Israel strategy, though?

Depends on whether you definition of "good" is "that which actually makes meaningful progress toward peace in the Middle East" or "that which gets me elected."

Hand Bibi a couple W87's and the recipe for Zyklon B and the votes of loving, gentle, forgiving, Christ-like evangelicals would have fallen in line.

 

[Handyman]

Was there a good Israel strategy, though?

We had painted ourselves into a corner by being their weapon sugar daddy for 60 years to keep the oil flowing. What was anybody going to do? Typically when you have an ally who goes insane you can threaten to pull up stakes or even switch sides. The Israelis understand with the way lobbying and media work in the US that is never an option. Given how we sold supporting Israel to the public as an Imperative Moral Crusade, we can't go back without both parties admitting, "Oh, that stuff we told you since the 50s? That was all lies. It was just geopolitics and the equations have changed. Sorry."

This is not like freezing out the Germans in the 30s despite there being a huge and politically savvy German population in the US. Pointing out Israel's crimes has always been a third rail here for various reasons, a few laudable, most deeply cynical.

Without a plausible threat of withdrawing support and/or backing a different regional power, the US had (has) no way to control Israel. We have no choice but to keep shoveling money and arms into that black hole. It's like shoring up New Orleans.

Yes there was. AOC is walking that line right now (ticking off some on the Left) by reminding people you can both "support Israel as an ally" and condemn the genocide and push for a ceasefire. Biden barely even talked about it and left the chain off the dog. Oh and he supplied the weapons...that is the opposite of a good plan and it will taint his legacy.

Now Biden I can kind of excuse because he was actually friends with BiBi and spent most of his time in the Senate fighting to protect Israel. You could argue it is hard to break that kind of conditioning. But the second Israel went into offensive mode he should have flipped and done more than just wag his finger especially since he had to know what was really going on.

Harris fumbled badly and you can tell part of that was the people she was listening to. (i.e. The Consultant Class) Anyone who has a modicum of political know how would have told her to walk away from Biden on the issue. If she even takes a half of a step towards the Left on the issue she avoids the issue in at least 2 swing states. (we will never know how much it would have helped but it definitely would not have hurt) These clowns were so afraid the Jews would shift Right en masse that they convinced her to at first ignore and then get aggressive with the protestors along with buddying up with people who spent their lives setting the ME on fire. They of course didn't listen to most of the Jews who were openly vocal in support of Gaza and wanting a Ceasefire...because it doesn't register to them because they are just as Islamophobic and Antisemetic as the Right is they just couch it in less offensive ways. All Jews are loyal to Israel and all Muslims are oppressive terrorists. The second they got the DNC to bar a Palestinian from speaking at the Convention they signed their own death warrant. And yet these clowns will advise the next Dem Candidate as well...even though the only election they helped in any way was Obama '08.

Look anyone who is pushing for peace is an idiot. They are decades away from that. (maybe never now) But tacitly allowing ethnic cleansing is not the answer. Biden should have cut them off and Harris should have held Joe's feet to the fire when she became the candidate.