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Yale Hockey 2010-2011 thread
- Thread starter LTsatch
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cornellgradyalefan
New member
Re: Yale Hockey 2010-2011 thread
Just watched the game on TIVO. Upon further reflection, I don't think Broc is hurt but there is definitely something wrong. On another note, Barry Melrose couldn't say enough good things about Miller and O'Neill.
Just watched the game on TIVO. Upon further reflection, I don't think Broc is hurt but there is definitely something wrong. On another note, Barry Melrose couldn't say enough good things about Miller and O'Neill.
Re: Yale Hockey 2010-2011 thread
Contrary to popular belief, the "ECAC haters" don't hate the ECAC. Certain fans of non-ECAC teams are critical of certain Yale fans about spouting off when the only claim to fame is a high ranking in the polls, which mean nothing. That's it. Simple. Now, if an ECAC team does well in the tourney, they will be congratulated, as they were last year in the upset of UND. Right now, however, there are some vocal fans that are demanding respect as a major player in college hockey. Sorry, you ain't there yet. You're still in the Cinderella category as far as I (and many others) are concerned. No shame in that. It takes years to build a stronghold in this sport.
In short, take it for what it is. You aren't there yet. You may never be. You may turn into a top program. Who knows? Long-term will tell. Just don't talk trash when you really can't back it up overall. You haven't earned it yet. Those are the facts.
Contrary to popular belief, the "ECAC haters" don't hate the ECAC. Certain fans of non-ECAC teams are critical of certain Yale fans about spouting off when the only claim to fame is a high ranking in the polls, which mean nothing. That's it. Simple. Now, if an ECAC team does well in the tourney, they will be congratulated, as they were last year in the upset of UND. Right now, however, there are some vocal fans that are demanding respect as a major player in college hockey. Sorry, you ain't there yet. You're still in the Cinderella category as far as I (and many others) are concerned. No shame in that. It takes years to build a stronghold in this sport.
In short, take it for what it is. You aren't there yet. You may never be. You may turn into a top program. Who knows? Long-term will tell. Just don't talk trash when you really can't back it up overall. You haven't earned it yet. Those are the facts.
Re: Yale Hockey 2010-2011 thread
Brenthoven and brianvf: I'm pretty sure I'm not one of the trash talkers you refer to, but I don't think there are any Yale fans who aren't happy to be called Cinderella. I'm pretty sure that's all any of us ever wanted. Since, by your logic, it will be fifteen years or so before anybody from Yale will be able to call their program a quality program (and even then, highly doubtful given the incredibly difficult time one has buiding and keeping a strong program) I suppose you think we should just sit here quietly and not speculate about our team's future -- since that's all it is... speculation. And other fans of ECAC teams can speculate about their teams' future, and we can jointly speculate about how well the ECAC might do this year in the tournament. And history is a very important part of the data one requires to carry out informed speculation -- but it surely isn't the only data one needs or Michigan Tech would still be an important part of the conversation. Hey, Yale has history too.... we'd have whipped UND's *** in 1896 when we started, since UND didn't have a team. So what? We'd have lost for most of the next 110 years. Maybe every **** time for all I know. (OK... not last year.) But I know that has nothing to do with who's good this year (though last year has some meaning, given the player/coaching overlap). And yet, what's fascinating about all the speculation is that nothing is guaranteed. Number one seeds in the tournaments win only a little more than twice as often as the average entrant, because the skill differences aren't that profound. So I definitely don't predict that Yale will win the tournament (nor has anyone, to the best of my knowledge), and I definitely don't predict an ECAC team in the Frozen Four (nor has anyone, to the best of my knowledge), but I don't think that UND's or Denver's or Michigan's or any other school's illustrious history will have anything to do with it. And if Yale wins the next ten championships in a row, I won't think Yale's history has anything to do with it ten years after that when all those players are long gone. In a perfect world, the trash talkers would only talk to the trash talkers, and the people who wanted to talk hockey would just talk hockey. But we don't live in that world. We gladly put up with the "Ylae"s and the asterisks and the cupcakes and the EZAC's because Cinderella is just happy to be discussed. To pick on our traditional rivals, the Harvard thread makes pretty grim reading now, and yes, they "skated circles around us" for most of the past thirty years (that's as far back as I go, but I'm sure it's even worse than that if you go farther back.) And the interesting thing is that they're a program at the moment caught in the reverence of their illustrious past, as they don't have the heart to disown their past in the slightest degree to disrepect Teddy Donato -- that's not my opinion; it's one side of the agonized debate going on at their thread.
So we're happy to be Cinderella if you're happy being the Wicked Stepsister. And if the Prince's Carriage doesn't find our house, well, there's always next year. But don't tell us we can't be happy about going to the Ball for the third year in a row. And don't tell us we might not be able to stay longer than we stayed last year because our pedigree is suspect. Because we're really good looking.
Brenthoven and brianvf: I'm pretty sure I'm not one of the trash talkers you refer to, but I don't think there are any Yale fans who aren't happy to be called Cinderella. I'm pretty sure that's all any of us ever wanted. Since, by your logic, it will be fifteen years or so before anybody from Yale will be able to call their program a quality program (and even then, highly doubtful given the incredibly difficult time one has buiding and keeping a strong program) I suppose you think we should just sit here quietly and not speculate about our team's future -- since that's all it is... speculation. And other fans of ECAC teams can speculate about their teams' future, and we can jointly speculate about how well the ECAC might do this year in the tournament. And history is a very important part of the data one requires to carry out informed speculation -- but it surely isn't the only data one needs or Michigan Tech would still be an important part of the conversation. Hey, Yale has history too.... we'd have whipped UND's *** in 1896 when we started, since UND didn't have a team. So what? We'd have lost for most of the next 110 years. Maybe every **** time for all I know. (OK... not last year.) But I know that has nothing to do with who's good this year (though last year has some meaning, given the player/coaching overlap). And yet, what's fascinating about all the speculation is that nothing is guaranteed. Number one seeds in the tournaments win only a little more than twice as often as the average entrant, because the skill differences aren't that profound. So I definitely don't predict that Yale will win the tournament (nor has anyone, to the best of my knowledge), and I definitely don't predict an ECAC team in the Frozen Four (nor has anyone, to the best of my knowledge), but I don't think that UND's or Denver's or Michigan's or any other school's illustrious history will have anything to do with it. And if Yale wins the next ten championships in a row, I won't think Yale's history has anything to do with it ten years after that when all those players are long gone. In a perfect world, the trash talkers would only talk to the trash talkers, and the people who wanted to talk hockey would just talk hockey. But we don't live in that world. We gladly put up with the "Ylae"s and the asterisks and the cupcakes and the EZAC's because Cinderella is just happy to be discussed. To pick on our traditional rivals, the Harvard thread makes pretty grim reading now, and yes, they "skated circles around us" for most of the past thirty years (that's as far back as I go, but I'm sure it's even worse than that if you go farther back.) And the interesting thing is that they're a program at the moment caught in the reverence of their illustrious past, as they don't have the heart to disown their past in the slightest degree to disrepect Teddy Donato -- that's not my opinion; it's one side of the agonized debate going on at their thread.
So we're happy to be Cinderella if you're happy being the Wicked Stepsister. And if the Prince's Carriage doesn't find our house, well, there's always next year. But don't tell us we can't be happy about going to the Ball for the third year in a row. And don't tell us we might not be able to stay longer than we stayed last year because our pedigree is suspect. Because we're really good looking.
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Re: Yale Hockey 2010-2011 thread
Who said you can't be happy?
My response was sparked because of the "ECAC-haters" remark. Just because some posters aren't fawning over Yale, or are having some fun in the "Skating Circles Around The WCHA"-type threads, they are considered ECAC haters? That's my issue.
Who said you can't be happy?
My response was sparked because of the "ECAC-haters" remark. Just because some posters aren't fawning over Yale, or are having some fun in the "Skating Circles Around The WCHA"-type threads, they are considered ECAC haters? That's my issue.
Re: Yale Hockey 2010-2011 thread
A lot of folks, actually. Most of "Ylae Second in the EZAC" thread. We should be unhappy for various reasons: because we cheat, because our conference sucks etc, etc. And because we have one less point in the conference than Union (OK... that makes ME unhappy, too, a little). Anyway, fun's fun and I get it. What got me Brenthoven, was your assertion that we have nothing until we have a program of the stature of UND. Maybe we just have different definitions of "respect as a major player in college hockey." I respect Union as a major player this year. I might not next year.
A lot of folks, actually. Most of "Ylae Second in the EZAC" thread. We should be unhappy for various reasons: because we cheat, because our conference sucks etc, etc. And because we have one less point in the conference than Union (OK... that makes ME unhappy, too, a little). Anyway, fun's fun and I get it. What got me Brenthoven, was your assertion that we have nothing until we have a program of the stature of UND. Maybe we just have different definitions of "respect as a major player in college hockey." I respect Union as a major player this year. I might not next year.
cornellgradyalefan
New member
Re: Yale Hockey 2010-2011 thread
What amazes me about you contingent of Yale and ECAC criticizers is that appears that you monitor the Yale threads to see if anyone gets out of line so that you can slap them back to reality. I engaged in a spirited debate with you denizens of the Yale and the ECAC are not worthy world and, in the course of that engagement, I asked to be provided the proof of the spouting off that you find so distasteful. And what I got were links to two threads. One of them was started by a fan that did say that Yale was skating rings around the WCHA. Perhaps he got a little too big for his britches, but what was really striking about the thread is that all the posters who were so offended by his comments just piled on one after the other to trash this guy and Yale and Yale fans. There were a few comebacks by Yale fans, but the ratio of anti-Yale comments to pro-Yale comments was 80-20 by my estimation. The second thread was started by a fan that posed the question, "Is Yale the best team in the country?", provided his evidence to support the argument that they might be, and then invited others to comment. What was different about this latter thread starter from the former is that at no point did he talk trash, yet he was pounded as well.
I think if you folks would honestly examine your motives, what drives this antipathy toward Yale fans is the belief that we have not earned the right to be so enthusiastic about our team because they have not earned the stature that would allow us to do so. As a life long and die hard Red Sox fan it reminds me of the BS rationalizations about 26 World Series Championships that Yankee fans tossed out so liberally after the Red Sox came back to win the ALCS from the 0-3 hole in 2004. Yes the Red Sox will never win as many World Series as the Yankees. But in my elation at the time did I care one iota about that? Of course not. The only thing that mattered is that we won that year! In a similar vein Yale is unlikely to win as many NCAA championships as UND, or BC, or Denver, or Minnesota, or Wisconsin. But if Yale is skilled enough and tough enough, and, yes, fortunate enough, because all teams need some good fortune when winning a championship, do you think me or any other Yale fan is going to care about that? The answer again is of course not.
So let us have our fun. Because after all, every person who roots for a team does so because it is, at its basest level, fun. Being a fan ceases to be fun when you get wrapped up in legacies, and how many years of success entitles fans to talk a little trash about their team. At that point you are no longer a fan. Instead you become a scold.
What amazes me about you contingent of Yale and ECAC criticizers is that appears that you monitor the Yale threads to see if anyone gets out of line so that you can slap them back to reality. I engaged in a spirited debate with you denizens of the Yale and the ECAC are not worthy world and, in the course of that engagement, I asked to be provided the proof of the spouting off that you find so distasteful. And what I got were links to two threads. One of them was started by a fan that did say that Yale was skating rings around the WCHA. Perhaps he got a little too big for his britches, but what was really striking about the thread is that all the posters who were so offended by his comments just piled on one after the other to trash this guy and Yale and Yale fans. There were a few comebacks by Yale fans, but the ratio of anti-Yale comments to pro-Yale comments was 80-20 by my estimation. The second thread was started by a fan that posed the question, "Is Yale the best team in the country?", provided his evidence to support the argument that they might be, and then invited others to comment. What was different about this latter thread starter from the former is that at no point did he talk trash, yet he was pounded as well.
I think if you folks would honestly examine your motives, what drives this antipathy toward Yale fans is the belief that we have not earned the right to be so enthusiastic about our team because they have not earned the stature that would allow us to do so. As a life long and die hard Red Sox fan it reminds me of the BS rationalizations about 26 World Series Championships that Yankee fans tossed out so liberally after the Red Sox came back to win the ALCS from the 0-3 hole in 2004. Yes the Red Sox will never win as many World Series as the Yankees. But in my elation at the time did I care one iota about that? Of course not. The only thing that mattered is that we won that year! In a similar vein Yale is unlikely to win as many NCAA championships as UND, or BC, or Denver, or Minnesota, or Wisconsin. But if Yale is skilled enough and tough enough, and, yes, fortunate enough, because all teams need some good fortune when winning a championship, do you think me or any other Yale fan is going to care about that? The answer again is of course not.
So let us have our fun. Because after all, every person who roots for a team does so because it is, at its basest level, fun. Being a fan ceases to be fun when you get wrapped up in legacies, and how many years of success entitles fans to talk a little trash about their team. At that point you are no longer a fan. Instead you become a scold.
Dirty
#BanBiddy
Re: Yale Hockey 2010-2011 thread
Me. No one is allowed to be happy without my permission. Except Happy. Because he's never happy anyways.
Me. No one is allowed to be happy without my permission. Except Happy. Because he's never happy anyways.
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willythekid
New member
Re: Yale Hockey 2010-2011 thread
yeah... or... maybe the fact that a couple of yale fans started threads titled the best team in the country and skating circles around the WCHA. Chear for your team, that's what everyone should do. When you start to beat your chest about beating a North Dakota team from last year and thus claiming you are the best in all the land excuse some of us for taking notice...
yeah... or... maybe the fact that a couple of yale fans started threads titled the best team in the country and skating circles around the WCHA. Chear for your team, that's what everyone should do. When you start to beat your chest about beating a North Dakota team from last year and thus claiming you are the best in all the land excuse some of us for taking notice...
cornellgradyalefan
New member
Re: Yale Hockey 2010-2011 thread
Get your facts straight. It was one fan who started one thread with a few other Yale fans mixed in and it was based at least as much about this season's achievements as it was about beating UND last year. The second thread was started by a Yale fan who wanted to provoke debate about whether Yale might be the best team in the country
Get your facts straight. It was one fan who started one thread with a few other Yale fans mixed in and it was based at least as much about this season's achievements as it was about beating UND last year. The second thread was started by a Yale fan who wanted to provoke debate about whether Yale might be the best team in the country
willythekid
New member
Re: Yale Hockey 2010-2011 thread
where are my facts not straight bub? I stated what the threads were titled and that they were started by a couple (meaning more than one) yale fan.
where are my facts not straight bub? I stated what the threads were titled and that they were started by a couple (meaning more than one) yale fan.
Re: Yale Hockey 2010-2011 thread
Your facts aren't straight. The "Yale...the best team in the country?" thread was NOT started by a Yale fan. And by his own admission, he was intending to begin a debate, not annointing Yale (hence the question mark at the end of the thread title). He stated as much in another Yale/EZAC-bashing thread.
Your facts aren't straight. The "Yale...the best team in the country?" thread was NOT started by a Yale fan. And by his own admission, he was intending to begin a debate, not annointing Yale (hence the question mark at the end of the thread title). He stated as much in another Yale/EZAC-bashing thread.
Re: Yale Hockey 2010-2011 thread
You are conveniently omitting the ? in the the title of the "Yale, Best team in the country?" thread. The poster asked a question for debate and did not make the blanket claim of best in the country.
The "skating circles" thread is what it is, a troll that hooked some pretty ugly fish from the depths of this message board.
You are conveniently omitting the ? in the the title of the "Yale, Best team in the country?" thread. The poster asked a question for debate and did not make the blanket claim of best in the country.
The "skating circles" thread is what it is, a troll that hooked some pretty ugly fish from the depths of this message board.
Re: Yale Hockey 2010-2011 thread
To the Yale fans, what do you folks think of our chances of coming away with the Cleary Cup. On the one hand we have a trap game against a resurgent Colgate and the season finale against a Cornell team which seems hell bent on taking whoever they are playing down into a non NCAA graveyard. Yale needs to do the same thing they have been doing lately which is dictate play from the start of the game and maintain speed and passing throughout, sprinkle in some decent defense and I like our chances.
Union and Quinnipiac will match up well, the key will be to have the Q play a three period game, which appears whenever they seem to feel like it. After watching Princeton yesterday, I believe that they are skilled enough to take out Union.
To the Yale fans, what do you folks think of our chances of coming away with the Cleary Cup. On the one hand we have a trap game against a resurgent Colgate and the season finale against a Cornell team which seems hell bent on taking whoever they are playing down into a non NCAA graveyard. Yale needs to do the same thing they have been doing lately which is dictate play from the start of the game and maintain speed and passing throughout, sprinkle in some decent defense and I like our chances.
Union and Quinnipiac will match up well, the key will be to have the Q play a three period game, which appears whenever they seem to feel like it. After watching Princeton yesterday, I believe that they are skilled enough to take out Union.
willythekid
New member
Re: Yale Hockey 2010-2011 thread
I might add "not so EZ?" to this list... all I'm trying to say is that certain yale posters brought this upon themselves and the other yale fans on uscho.com
You are conveniently omitting the ? in the the title of the "Yale, Best team in the country?" thread. The poster asked a question for debate and did not make the blanket claim of best in the country.
The "skating circles" thread is what it is, a troll that hooked some pretty ugly fish from the depths of this message board.
I might add "not so EZ?" to this list... all I'm trying to say is that certain yale posters brought this upon themselves and the other yale fans on uscho.com
Great, LTsatch, it's back to hockey talk!
I'd say Union has about a 60 percent chance of 4 points, 25 percent of 2, 10 percent of 3 and 5 percent of none. I don't mmuch like QU's chances, but - agree that Princeton will be interesting.
As for the Elis, I hate both these games. Colgate's last weekend is especially worrisome and Cornell has had an excellent second half. So let's say 50 percent four points, 40 percent 2 points, 2 percent 3 points and 8 percent none. This would make our chances of a Cleary Cup around one chance in 4 -- I'm not sure how the tiebreakers work.
I'd say Union has about a 60 percent chance of 4 points, 25 percent of 2, 10 percent of 3 and 5 percent of none. I don't mmuch like QU's chances, but - agree that Princeton will be interesting.
As for the Elis, I hate both these games. Colgate's last weekend is especially worrisome and Cornell has had an excellent second half. So let's say 50 percent four points, 40 percent 2 points, 2 percent 3 points and 8 percent none. This would make our chances of a Cleary Cup around one chance in 4 -- I'm not sure how the tiebreakers work.
willythekid
New member
Re: Yale Hockey 2010-2011 thread
did you read any of that thread?
Apparently, yale fans are as touchy about their threads as they are about program's history...
did you read any of that thread?
Apparently, yale fans are as touchy about their threads as they are about program's history...
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