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World Soccer XXV - the run up to the World Cup

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ExileOnDaytonStreet said:
The only way to do pro/rel is to somehow incorporate it into a franchise structure. Like the EPL/FA system of "parachute payments", but on steroids. Even then, I don't think it'll ever work.
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Yeah that's basically my thought. You'd have to have some system that creates a financial parity between the two league. It probably won't happen, even if it did we're still a good 30+ years away.

The biggest problem right now in the US is that, while MLS is stable, the lower divisions are nowhere near stable. The NASL is compounding the problem because they're trying to compete with MLS, not work with them. The USL is working with MLS but it's very recent and stability is off in the distance.

It's bad because it's effecting development. Player development, referee development, coaching development are all lagging because the lower divisions are a mess.
 
Re: World Soccer XXV - the run up to the World Cup

ExileOnDaytonStreet said:
The only way to do pro/rel is to somehow incorporate it into a franchise structure. Like the EPL/FA system of "parachute payments", but on steroids. Even then, I don't think it'll ever work.
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It seems to me that one way it might work would be if MLS ownership becomes something like baseball, in which A / AA / AAA teams are "affiliated" with the major league team. Even then it would be problematic. To extend the baseball analogy, the analog to the major league Kansas City team is relegated, say, while the analog to the St. Louis AAA team is promoted. Then what?

Still, I'd think if each "team" were multiple teams, on different levels, and you spread out the "parachute payment" over several years instead of it being a one-time lump sum, something workable might develop.

The real question would be whether it was worth it or not. It seems perhaps that promotion / relegation is in lieu of a playoff structure more than complementary to a playoff structure, but maybe you could figure out how to meld the two models...
 
Re: World Soccer XXV - the run up to the World Cup

I really like pro/rel in general, as it makes for many more teams playing meaningful games at the end of the season. However, the way American sports are structured, I just don't see it happening, even in MLS. Instead of each small town and neighborhoods of larger locales having their own sports clubs in the league system, we have high school and college sports. I don't think the casual American sports fan, even on willing to watch soccer, would be that receptive, or understand a pro/rel system. I think it would be really interesting in college sports switched to having a bunch of divisions with pro/rel. I actually think it would make a lot of sense if that happened, but the NCAA has a hard time accepting good ideas that are much more easily implemented.

Also, there are pro/rel leagues with playoffs. The Swedish Hockey League (formerly Eliteserien) has a championship playoff for the top 8 teams. Two teams have no postseason and the bottom two teams are sent to a pro/rel playoff with four teams from the 2nd division HockeyAllsveskan. The top 3 teams from HA are automatically qualified for that playoff and the fourth is chosen via a playoff between teams placed 4-7. Once they have the six, they play double round-robin home and away against each team and the top 2 are sent to the SHL and the bottom 4 to the HockeyAllsvenskan. I think there are 7 or 8 levels to the Swedish hockey pyramid and similar postseason series to determine pro/rel.
 
Re: World Soccer XXV - the run up to the World Cup

HumRsky said:
I really like pro/rel in general, as it makes for many more teams playing meaningful games at the end of the season. However, the way American sports are structured, I just don't see it happening, even in MLS. Instead of each small town and neighborhoods of larger locales having their own sports clubs in the league system, we have high school and college sports. I don't think the casual American sports fan, even on willing to watch soccer, would be that receptive, or understand a pro/rel system. I think it would be really interesting in college sports switched to having a bunch of divisions with pro/rel. I actually think it would make a lot of sense if that happened, but the NCAA has a hard time accepting good ideas that are much more easily implemented.

.
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That could be a hell of a way for non-revenue and women's athletics to become a bigger draw on campus and be much more self supporting on their own. You base promotion and regulation basically on the directors' cup standings based on how well all of your teams did in their respective postseasons. The football team could have a great year, maybe even win the national championship. But that NC would only be worth a hundred points. That school could still end up getting demoted if the rest of their program isn't strong enough.
 
Re: World Soccer XXV - the run up to the World Cup

On a side note, might I say F the soccer universe. No one sells soccer merch in larger than 2XL. I want a jersey, polo, tshirt to wear when watching the world cup and I got nothing. :(
 
Re: World Soccer XXV - the run up to the World Cup

Shirtless Guy said:
On a side note, might I say F the soccer universe. No one sells soccer merch in larger than 2XL. I want a jersey, polo, tshirt to wear when watching the world cup and I got nothing. :(
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I had a relative go to Turkey for a few weeks and he got me a Galatasaray jersey. I was hoping for a Turkish national team jersey, but it's still a cool jersey so I can't complain. It was an official Nike, stitched patches and everything, jersey. Now pretty much everything I wear here in the States is a large, some companies I go XL, but for the most part I stick with L. When I tried the jersey on, I learned two things:

1) Apparently tall people don't exist in Turkey
2) America is fatter than I thought

I can't wear it without restricted movement, and it looks ridiculous because it's so short it's essentially a midrift on me. Apparently the XL was just wider so that wouldn't fix that problem, but it's amazing to think a Turkish Nike large width-wise is about the same as an American Nike small.
 
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Re: World Soccer XXV - the run up to the World Cup

Spartanforlife4 said:
I had a relative go to Turkey for a few weeks and he got me a Galatasaray jersey. I was hoping for a Turkish national team jersey, but it's still a cool jersey so I can't complain. It was an official Nike, stitched patches and everything, jersey. Now pretty much everything I wear here in the States is a large, some companies I go XL, but for the most part I stick with L. When I tried the jersey on, I learned two things:

1) Apparently tall people don't exist in Turkey
2) America is fatter than I thought

I can't wear it without restricted movement, and it looks ridiculous because it's so short it's essentially a midrift on me. Apparently the XL was just wider so that wouldn't fix that problem, but it's amazing to think a Turkish Nike large width-wise is about the same as an American Nike small.
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I don't think its Turkey, I think it soccer. I've never found a soccer jersey that fit me at the same size a t-shirt does.
 
Re: World Soccer XXV - the run up to the World Cup

bronconick said:
If he's suddenly saying that now, one of his checks must have bounced.
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It's only because of having to move it to the winter, though. Not because of the human suffering and death and thrown together infrastructure, just because it's too hot for the summer.

Meanwhile I saw someone else make a good point. If it does in fact get taken away from them, it's better for it to happen late if we want the US to host. A decision within the next year gives a country like Australia a much better chance. Waiting until the last minute makes it a dead heat between the US and England.
 
Re: World Soccer XXV - the run up to the World Cup

Spartanforlife4 said:
It's only because of having to move it to the winter, though. Not because of the human suffering and death and thrown together infrastructure, just because it's too hot for the summer.

Meanwhile I saw someone else make a good point. If it does in fact get taken away from them, it's better for it to happen late if we want the US to host. A decision within the next year gives a country like Australia a much better chance. Waiting until the last minute makes it a dead heat between the US and England.
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Well, no matter when the decision is made, it shouldn't be England because it will have just been in Russia in 2018.
 
Re: World Soccer XXV - the run up to the World Cup

Shirtless Guy said:
Well, no matter when the decision is made, it shouldn't be England because it will have just been in Russia in 2018.
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I agree, but didn't FIFA abandon their confederation rotation system? That would just re-emphasize that they're open for anything.
 
Re: World Soccer XXV - the run up to the World Cup

Spartanforlife4 said:
I agree, but didn't FIFA abandon their confederation rotation system? That would just re-emphasize that they're open for anything.
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There is no confederations rotation anymore:

"In October 2007, FIFA ended its continental rotation policy. Instead countries that are members of the same confederation as either of the last two tournament hosts are ineligible"

So based on that South America and Europe would not be eligible for 2022.
 
Re: World Soccer XXV - the run up to the World Cup

Shirtless Guy said:
There is no confederations rotation anymore:

"In October 2007, FIFA ended its continental rotation policy. Instead countries that are members of the same confederation as either of the last two tournament hosts are ineligible"

So based on that South America and Europe would not be eligible for 2022.
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Ah, ok. Looking at future bids on Wikipedia right now, the US needs to put one in for 2026. I feel like 2030 is locked up with Uruguay/Argentina for the centennial.
 
Spartanforlife4 said:
It's only because of having to move it to the winter, though. Not because of the human suffering and death and thrown together infrastructure, just because it's too hot for the summer.

Meanwhile I saw someone else make a good point. If it does in fact get taken away from them, it's better for it to happen late if we want the US to host. A decision within the next year gives a country like Australia a much better chance. Waiting until the last minute makes it a dead heat between the US and England.
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No it doesn't. They'll go to Germany or something first.
 
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