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World Soccer XXIV: The Road to Rio

  • Thread starter Thread starter Priceless
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I kind of wonder if they're looking to expand so much because they want to set up a second division of MLS and have promotion between the two levels. They get a lot of ownerships on board with that with their own stadiums to play in, it could be pulled off. You would have to think that the second division teams would still get the same TV shares they used to get when they was MLS squads up to 3 years if they haven't earned promotion back to the MLS. But having that second division level that could play its way up into the MLS would be pretty tempting for a lot more owners to want to try to play around with MLS. Probably would never be pulled off because of promotion, but heck, it would be as fun as hell.
With the actions MLS has been taking with Reserve Teams playing in USL PRO that seems to be far from the truth.

It's more of a "we'd like to get 24 teams so we have a good national footprint that TV networks like".
 
Re: World Soccer XXIV: The Road to Rio

With the actions MLS has been taking with Reserve Teams playing in USL PRO that seems to be far from the truth.

It's more of a "we'd like to get 24 teams so we have a good national footprint that TV networks like".

I would agree with this statement. The only way Fifa gets involved with pro/rel would be MLS has 24 teams and NASL likely need 16. All 30 teams would need various things like a 20,000 seat stadium, reserve squads like USL PRO and youth academies.
 
I would agree with this statement. The only way Fifa gets involved with pro/rel would be MLS has 24 teams and NASL likely need 16. All 30 teams would need various things like a 20,000 seat stadium, reserve squads like USL PRO and youth academies.
And if FIFA did get involved MLS and the USSF would tell them to * off.
 
Re: World Soccer XXIV: The Road to Rio

With the World Cup draw coming up on Friday, the obvious sensible solution of how to place teams of course is ignored, so they can put on a big show.

The proposal that I've seen that makes most sense to me is that the teams are seeded 1 - 32 (which of course would bring up another rats'-nest of controversy over how to seed, sigh...).

First you place teams into 8 pools based on seeds:
1 - 16 - 17 - 32
2 - 15 - 18 - 31
.....
7 - 10 - 23 - 26
8 - 9 - 24 - 25

Then you adjust the pools if needed so that no pool has two teams from CAF, AFC, CONCACEF, nor CONMEBOL, and no more than two teams from EUFA.

Even the knockout rounds are set up from the outset so that, assuming each top seed wins its pool, 1 wouldn't meet 2 until the final, 1 wouldn't meet 4 until the semi-final, etc.
 
Re: World Soccer XXIV: The Road to Rio

OK in theory, but too prone to jury-rigging the ratings to create the match-ups that certain powers would want.

While the random draw from pots approach does have its flaws, it does have more of a semblance of impartiality.
 
Re: World Soccer XXIV: The Road to Rio

I think the best thing to do would be to seed 2 pots so that the top 16 teams are spread throughout the 8 groups some what evenly? I know it would make things more complicated with keeping groups even with no 2 teams from same confederation and no third UEFA team but its not that complicated.
 
Re: World Soccer XXIV: The Road to Rio

The pots have been officially determined for the World Cup and they are as expected. The wrinkle is how they will deal with 9 teams in pot 4 (UEFA). Here is the explaination:

"Due to the uneven number of teams included in the four geographic pots there will be a pre-draw. The four South American seeded teams will be placed in a Pot X. One of them will be drawn and one team from Pot 4 will be drawn, these two teams will be put in the same group. The European team will count as a Pot 2 team, making eight teams in all four Pots and keeping a maximum of two European teams in any group. The last three teams in Pot X will be returned to Pot 1, and the draw will then commence."
 
Re: World Soccer XXIV: The Road to Rio

With the World Cup draw coming up on Friday, the obvious sensible solution of how to place teams of course is ignored, so they can put on a big show.

The proposal that I've seen that makes most sense to me is that the teams are seeded 1 - 32 (which of course would bring up another rats'-nest of controversy over how to seed, sigh...).

First you place teams into 8 pools based on seeds:
1 - 16 - 17 - 32
2 - 15 - 18 - 31
.....
7 - 10 - 23 - 26
8 - 9 - 24 - 25

Then you adjust the pools if needed so that no pool has two teams from CAF, AFC, CONCACEF, nor CONMEBOL, and no more than two teams from EUFA.

Even the knockout rounds are set up from the outset so that, assuming each top seed wins its pool, 1 wouldn't meet 2 until the final, 1 wouldn't meet 4 until the semi-final, etc.

I like this idea. Similar to the PWR.
 
Re: World Soccer XXIV: The Road to Rio

No. They really don't care. You just think they do.

Putting both teams into impossible pots, denying both countries hosting opportunities... Nope. Nothing to see here for you. You probably think FIFA is an incorruptible and trustworthy organization.
 
Re: World Soccer XXIV: The Road to Rio

What's most idiotic about FIFA's use of its own ranking system is how they abandon it when it most suits them.

The qualifications in every single confederation with the exception of CONMEBOL (since it's just a straight double-round robin system they've used for quite some time) utilized the FIFA rankings at some point along the way, in each case separating teams into pots based entirely upon their FIFA ranking at a given time (usually, directly before the draw). That led to byes, pairings, and groupings being determined by an indicator of strength, and ultimately created qualifiers that frequently led to the best teams advancing (with some surprises along the way, as one would expect).

Isn't that what we're looking for? The best teams?

Instead of ranking one pot and then just sorting the rest by confederation, why not just rank all the pots? What a novel concept. Hey, you can even keep the host in the top-ranked pot for the home advantage FIFA so desires, especially since in this case Brazil's FIFA ranking is screwed up due to their exclusion from the qualifying process.

Pot 1: Brazil, Spain, Germany, Argentina, Colombia, Belgium, Uruguay, Switzerland
Pot 2: Netherlands, Italy, England, Chile, United States, Portugal, Greece, Bosnia
Pot 3: Ivory Coast, Croatia, Russia, France, Ecuador, Ghana, Mexico, Costa Rica
Pot 4: Algeria, Nigeria, Honduras, Japan, Iran, South Korea, Australia, Cameroon

Just make some very simple rules: Host is in Group A (so they can play in the opening game), and even though the ban on multiple non-UEFA teams being in the same group is stupid, we can even just say, no more than two UEFA teams in one group. Given all the top ranked teams are UEFA and CONMEBOL, and the tournament is in South America, let's allow two CONMEBOL teams as well. So let's do the draw. Pot 1.

Group A - Brazil
Group B - Colombia
Group C - Argentina
Group D - Switzerland
Group E - Belgium
Group F - Spain
Group G - Uruguay
Group H - Germany

Now, Pot 2.

Group A - Brazil, England
Group B - Colombia, Bosnia
Group C - Argentina, United States
Group D - Switzerland, Chile
Group E - Belgium, Portugal
Group F - Spain, Greece
Group G - Uruguay, Netherlands
Group H - Germany, Italy

Ooh. We've already got three groups with two UEFA teams drawn to them. So we simply now know which groups Croatia, Russia, and France can't now be drawn to. So how do we resolve Pot 3? We break it out with two pots, one of which has Croatia, Russia, and France in it, the other has Group A, Group B, Group C, Group D, and Group G in it.

Group A - Brazil, England
Group B - Colombia, Bosnia, Croatia
Group C - Argentina, United States
Group D - Switzerland, Chile, Russia
Group E - Belgium, Portugal
Group F - Spain, Greece
Group G - Uruguay, Netherlands, France
Group H - Germany, Italy

Then, we draw the remaining members of Pot 3, and sort them according to the draw.

Group A - Brazil, England, Ecuador
Group B - Colombia, Bosnia, Croatia
Group C - Argentina, United States
Group D - Switzerland, Chile, Russia
Group E - Belgium, Portugal
Group F - Spain, Greece
Group G - Uruguay, Netherlands, France
Group H - Germany, Italy

Oops! Mexico has been drawn second, which would put them in a group with the United States? Well, just drop them into Group E and draw again for Group C.

Group A - Brazil, England, Ecuador
Group B - Colombia, Bosnia, Croatia
Group C - Argentina, United States, Ghana
Group D - Switzerland, Chile, Russia
Group E - Belgium, Portugal, Mexico
Group F - Spain, Greece, Costa Rica
Group G - Uruguay, Netherlands, France
Group H - Germany, Italy, Ivory Coast

Wow, that was tough. Now, Pot 4.

Group A - Brazil, England, Ecuador, Australia
Group B - Colombia, Bosnia, Croatia, Nigeria
Group C - Argentina, United States, Ghana, Japan
Group D - Switzerland, Chile, Russia, Algeria
Group E - Belgium, Portugal, Mexico, Cameroon
Group F - Spain, Greece, Costa Rica, Iran
Group G - Uruguay, Netherlands, France, Honduras
Group H - Germany, Italy, Ivory Coast, South Korea

Honduras was drawn for Group F, so they just get slotted down into Group G instead to avoid having them paired with Costa Rica.

I give you the 2014 World Cup, in all its terrible equity. Some groups still look more daunting than others. But that's what you get when it's a draw.

Our draw still sucks (because, Ghana). But at least it's by the numbers instead of just arbitrarily being a group of death just because the US is tossed in the weakest pot.
 
Re: World Soccer XXIV: The Road to Rio

As a casual soccer fan, I just can't understand this draw process...

I have no friggin clue :(
 
Re: World Soccer XXIV: The Road to Rio

Putting both teams into impossible pots, denying both countries hosting opportunities... Nope. Nothing to see here for you. You probably think FIFA is an incorruptible and trustworthy organization.
No, I think they're corrupt in the sense that they take bribes. I don't see anything that leads me to think the pot placement this time around was done with any particular inclination to screw anyone; England isn't good enough to get a seed so they're in the UEFA pot, and with 4 CONCACAF and 4 AFC those confederations were always going to be paired together, with 5 CAF, 2 non-seed CONMEBOL and 1 of 9 UEFA making the other pot. I suppose maybe the CONCACAF and CONMEBOL teams could've been swapped and given us the possibility for an easier draw in 2010, but then we and England got a pretty easy group so I can't really make too much of it. As for "denying hosting opportunities," we hosted not all that long ago in the time scale of World Cup hosting so I don't see how much gripe we really have as far as being denied. England, perhaps, could be considered, but (if you want to take FIFA at their word) they seem to be a victim of FIFA's inclination to broaden their geographic scope.

Personally, I just think they're corrupt and got bribed by Russia and Qatar though. The bribery just doesn't have anything to do with screwing anyone, it's just plain greed.
 
Re: World Soccer XXIV: The Road to Rio

Putting both teams into impossible pots, denying both countries hosting opportunities... Nope. Nothing to see here for you. You probably think FIFA is an incorruptible and trustworthy organization.

The hosting issue is one thing. The pots for the draw are not. They're based on geography. You might as well say they're screwing over any of the European teams.
 
Re: World Soccer XXIV: The Road to Rio

"Should we look for a pre-existing infrastructure? Nah, let's rush building everything from scratch to meet a close deadline."

The problem with pre-existing infrastructure is that then there are no massive construction contracts to award to the families and friends of ExCo members so they can skim 50% of the money off the top.
 
Re: World Soccer XXIV: The Road to Rio

The problem with pre-existing infrastructure is that then there are no massive construction contracts to award to the families and friends of ExCo members so they can skim 50% of the money off the top.
This. Like I said, it's not that they're not corrupt.

The Guardian has a draw simulator:
http://www.theguardian.com/football...up-draw-2014-create-your-own-draw-interactive

The first one I ran has us in a group with Spain, Ecuador and Greece. It's a tough group, but I don't know that I would trade with Mexico (Uruguay, Ghana, Portugal).
 
Re: World Soccer XXIV: The Road to Rio

This. Like I said, it's not that they're not corrupt.

The Guardian has a draw simulator:
http://www.theguardian.com/football...up-draw-2014-create-your-own-draw-interactive

The first one I ran has us in a group with Spain, Ecuador and Greece. It's a tough group, but I don't know that I would trade with Mexico (Uruguay, Ghana, Portugal).

I drew the US into Belgium, Chile and England. You know, I don't think we've given the Brits nearly enough grief over that E-A-S-Y headline after the draw for 2010.
 
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