World Soccer XVI: The Sadness

[J.D.]

Re: World Soccer XVI: The Sadness

Stoppage time is ridiculous anyway. Just stop the clock when there's an injury/time wasting.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: World Soccer XVI: The Sadness

Stoppage time is ridiculous anyway. Just stop the clock when there's an injury/time wasting.

I think that's an excellent idea, though I'm not sure how the referee would coordinate their starting and stopping with the clock everyone can see. But I'm sure it could be worked out. That way, everyone would know exactly how much time is left. Of course, it'd be a little tricky to know exactly when to start and stop when there is minor time wasting.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: World Soccer XVI: The Sadness

I don't think stoppage time is stupid at all...I just think of soccer as not really having a clock...each half is at least 45 minutes long.

As for the game, I'm pumped I had 4 of the 5 goalscorers on my FIFA.com world cup fantasy team! 46 points out of the 4 goal scorers and I have a bunch of germans tomorrow! Lookin' Good!!

 

[MountieBoyOz]

Re: World Soccer XVI: The Sadness

Go ahead and play this.

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[unofan]

Re: World Soccer XVI: The Sadness

Stoppage time is ridiculous anyway. Just stop the clock when there's an injury/time wasting.

I think that's an excellent idea, though I'm not sure how the referee would coordinate their starting and stopping with the clock everyone can see. But I'm sure it could be worked out. That way, everyone would know exactly how much time is left. Of course, it'd be a little tricky to know exactly when to start and stop when there is minor time wasting.

They do this in NCAA soccer, and it works ok until the end of the game. Clock stops on goals, serious injuries, and obvious delay tactics at the end of the game, restarting on the whistle/touch of the ball. The ref simply makes the appropriate signal (arms cross above the head) and the timekeeper stops the clock.

But soccer shouldn't end when a team that is trailing or tied has a scoring opportunity - you let the play finish before calling the game. The NCAA in its infinite wisdom ends the game when the clock hits 0:00, regardless of the situation on the field. Hell, even field hockey gives the refs some discretion to let a play finish even after the clock strikes 0.

 

[J.D.]

Re: World Soccer XVI: The Sadness

But soccer shouldn't end when a team that is trailing or tied has a scoring opportunity - you let the play finish before calling the game.

Why shouldn't it though? It's a timed sport. It's not like Hockey allows the trailing team time to try and score until the puck is covered/cleared out of the zone. When the game it's over, it's over...

 

[CLS]

Re: World Soccer XVI: The Sadness

I don't think stoppage time is stupid at all...I just think of soccer as not really having a clock...each half is at least 45 minutes long.
. . .

I agree. One thing I like about soccer is that a skilled ref can eliminate "buzzer beater" controversies. I recognize that can take an element of excitement out of the game, but I like it that the referee can wait until a play is over to blow the half or game dead.

 

[unofan]

Re: World Soccer XVI: The Sadness

Why shouldn't it though? It's a timed sport. It's not like Hockey allows the trailing team time to try and score until the puck is covered/cleared out of the zone. When the game it's over, it's over...

Because it's a different sport with different rules. Not every sport needs to be Americanized, and there's no purpose for the NCAA's rule except that it wants to be different, which is an asinine reason to change a common rule. Just like the proposed icing rule in hockey sucks. And the NCAA can't even fall back on the "all our timed sports end at 0:00" because its field hockey rules allow the continuation of play past 0:00 under certain circumstances.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: World Soccer XVI: The Sadness

I guess I have a little built in bias against fuzzy stoppage time, having watched Manchester United benefit from "ManU time" running strangely long at times when the Red Devils train in a match.

I don't think this would be "Americanizing" soccer at all. Other sports played around the world keep specific time. Really, it could help reduce time wasting, as I think players still figure that the referee doesn't fully capture every moment of their time wasting, so they still gain a little advantage from it, whereas if they see the clock stop when they kick the ball away or whatever, there'd be a direct correlation and they could see they aren't gaining anything. I don't think it's a huge deal either way, but certainly an interesting concept to consider.

 

[Kepler]

Re: World Soccer XVI: The Sadness

I guess I have a little built in bias against fuzzy stoppage time, having watched Manchester United benefit from "ManU time" running strangely long at times when the Red Devils train in a match.

I don't think this would be "Americanizing" soccer at all. Other sports played around the world keep specific time. Really, it could help reduce time wasting, as I think players still figure that the referee doesn't fully capture every moment of their time wasting, so they still gain a little advantage from it, whereas if they see the clock stop when they kick the ball away or whatever, there'd be a direct correlation and they could see they aren't gaining anything. I don't think it's a huge deal either way, but certainly an interesting concept to consider.

Has there ever been a movement to use real time in soccer? I can see 3 arguments against it: (1) it truncates the last scoring chance, (2) it's an American idea and America sucks, (3) Tradition!

(1) can be easily gotten around, if you want to, by saying after time runs out the defending team has to clear their half.

(2) is stupid although probably somewhat influential. Publicly immolating Alexi Lalas might help and has no downside.

(3) is inarguable, though traditions inevitably pass away, particularly when given a nice shove by a self-interested and soulless media (cough Bowl Games)

 

[CLS]

Re: World Soccer XVI: The Sadness

Because it's a different sport with different rules. Not every sport needs to be Americanized, and there's no purpose for the NCAA's rule except that it wants to be different, which is an asinine reason to change a common rule. Just like the proposed icing rule in hockey sucks. And the NCAA can't even fall back on the "all our timed sports end at 0:00" because its field hockey rules allow the continuation of play past 0:00 under certain circumstances.

You could argue that basketball also allows continuation of play after 0:00; who's to say that when a shot is released should determine whether or not a shot should count? Same with football, plus you have the rule that a game can't end on a defensive penalty.

I guess I have a little built in bias against fuzzy stoppage time, having watched Manchester United benefit from "ManU time" running strangely long at times when the Red Devils train in a match.

I don't think this would be "Americanizing" soccer at all. Other sports played around the world keep specific time. Really, it could help reduce time wasting, as I think players still figure that the referee doesn't fully capture every moment of their time wasting, so they still gain a little advantage from it, whereas if they see the clock stop when they kick the ball away or whatever, there'd be a direct correlation and they could see they aren't gaining anything. I don't think it's a huge deal either way, but certainly an interesting concept to consider.

Possible, though, especially if a team is annoying enough about faking injuries and time wasting that the referee could add on more time than they wasted.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: World Soccer XVI: The Sadness

Any American who still calls soccer boring who didn't watch the last two Uruguay games can shut up their faces now. Anyone who does so after having watched those games deserves a kick in the babymaker.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: World Soccer XVI: The Sadness

So should I start MERTESACKER or RAMOS tomorrow?

Scoring:

Points Action
5 Goal
4 Defender clean sheet
3 Playing 61+ minutes
3 For each goal assist
2 Playing 31-60 minutes
1 Playing 1-30 minutes
1 For every save - Outfield player
1 For every 2 solo runs - Attacking Bonus
1 For recovering a ball - Defending Bonus
-1 Foul causing a penalty
-1 For every 2 goals conceded by your goalkeeper or defenders
-1 Yellow card
-2 For every penalty miss
-2 Own goal
-3 Red card (includes any yellow card points)

 

[walrus]

Re: World Soccer XVI: The Sadness

Any American who still calls soccer boring who didn't watch the last two Uruguay games can shut up their faces now. Anyone who does so after having watched those games deserves a kick in the babymaker.

I have to admit I've enjoyed some of the world cup games I've watched including today. When you're watching the best in world its great but soccer still pales in comparison to other sports

 

[Kepler]

Re: World Soccer XVI: The Sadness

I have to admit I've enjoyed some of the world cup games I've watched including today. When you're watching the best in world its great but soccer still pales in comparison to other sports

Different strokes, but I think it's been fun and exciting. As far as international team competitions go, the only thing I've ever seen that was categorically better was this year's Olympic hockey, and that was the best sports of any kind I've ever seen.

 

[BoomGoestheDynamite]

Re: World Soccer XVI: The Sadness

I have to admit I've enjoyed some of the world cup games I've watched including today. When you're watching the best in world its great but soccer still pales in comparison to other sports

A common misconception that the level of play in the world cup is the "best in the world". Most top level club games in the EPL, Bundesliga, La Liga, etc. are of higher quality for some reasons (teams aren't built around accident of birth, a lot more practice time etc). If you watch the top European leagues week in and week out most of the play will be higher in quality.

And I dispute that watching the best in basketball, the NBA *shudder*, is better than any other major sport.

 

[JohnN]

Re: World Soccer XVI: The Sadness

I guess my issue with Bob was him saying Suarez deserved some ridiculous ban...like five games maybe?

Yes. I support the five match ban. I still support a lifetime ban.

I just wonder what the response would have been if a major European team had had this happen. Total bedlam. Don't tell me for a second the English or Irish press would have let this go like they did with Ghana. As I said before, this is ten times worse than what Henry did to Ireland.



I think this discussion goes hand-in-hand with the clock issue.

In America we say the clock stops at 0:00 and if the rules say it's just a red card than it's just a red card.

If I'm discussing this with people who think the ref blowing his whistle when a corner kick is in flight would be okay if the clock hits 0:00 at that time, then I understand why you wouldn't understand my argument.

P.S. I hope nobody takes my rant personally. That would be another mistake.

 

[JohnN]

Re: World Soccer XVI: The Sadness

Has there ever been a movement to use real time in soccer?

Didn't MLS do it their first few years? I seem to remember it resulted in a lot of time wasting.



Quick: Nominations for a new thread title are now open.

 

[CLS]

Re: World Soccer XVI: The Sadness

A common misconception that the level of play in the world cup is the "best in the world". Most top level club games in the EPL, Bundesliga, La Liga, etc. are of higher quality for some reasons (teams aren't built around accident of birth, a lot more practice time etc). If you watch the top European leagues week in and week out most of the play will be higher in quality.

And I dispute that watching the best in basketball, the NBA *shudder*, is better than any other major sport.

Though I'd guess that relative to other sports, the level of play at the WC is higher relative to other "World Championships". The qualifying process for the WC is much more rigorous, and I can't think of any any good analogy to "Friendlies".

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: World Soccer XVI: The Sadness

JohnN, I'm curious to know your take on what the punishment should be for this offence by JVR in the 2009 NCAAs:

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Whether BU scores on the power play, or ends up losing in OT shouldn't make a difference.

I can accept it if you say that whether Kieran Millan is still in the play makes a difference, but its trivial in my book.