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World Soccer XIII: Through the Group Stages

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Re: World Soccer XIII: Through the Group Stages

Kepler said:
I thought all soccer players signed an oath mandating they run around like little girls or Cafe posters at a Lady GaGa concert after each goal.
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As pointed out above, there have been other players who switched countries or decided not to play for the countries of their birth, and have been a little classier about celebrating.
Now, the kid was 22 at the time, and it's certainly understandable that he would want to celebrate, and may not have been considering the broader circumstances, and like I've said I don't hate the guy. Just saying that the incident last summer was what really pushed people over the top on him.
 
Re: World Soccer XIII: Through the Group Stages

Red Cloud said:
As seen on ESPN Los Angeles:

Whoa. Whoa. BTFU.

Thomas Dooley? German born and raised son of an American serviceman. When he joined the US team in 1992, there was no way in hell he was going to make the German team and to go from Germany to the USA, then, was a definite step down.

Earnie Stewart? Same exact story, just swap German for Dutch.

David Regis? First, I don't see how a guy who had 27 caps in his career and never played in a World Cup game "played an important role for the national team," but he's of a similar story with Dooley and Stewart in that he would have never made his national side (France) and had an out through his marriage.

"Weglerle?" Oh, you mean Roy Wegerle. You could make an argument for him, since he was South African - not a step down to the US from there.

If Rossi were, say, Venezuelan and had chosen to play for Venezuela instead, I wouldn't have had a problem with that, especially if he wasn't talented enough to make the US team, but even then - if you want to try and hack it with a weaker side, be my guest. But when you've got the obvious talent, and you turn your back on your home country for one higher on the food chain, that's when you become a traitor.

EDIT: Or, if you're from Boston...

trader.jpg
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So it's OK to play for the country of your parentage rather than the country of your birth ("home country" is a subjective term; however we may feel about it, reportedly Rossi has always considered himself to be Italian, so he would claim that he is not turning his back on his "home country") if the country of your parentage is your "safety school" (Dooley, Stewart), but not if the country of your parentage is your "reach" (Rossi)?

I agree with you that Rossi is a tool, but I think it's a thin distinction to be drawing.
 
Re: World Soccer XIII: Through the Group Stages

If Rossi's parents were immigrants and he has been playing internationally since he was 16, it seems less like a judas type event.

I may wish he had chosen the US but find it hard to wish the guy would be injured and never play again.

Was he ever on the US national team at younger ages? If he has been out of the country since 16 it doesn't seem like he was ever really in the mix for a USMNT appointment...seems like a stretch to go from there to calling him a traitor.

I think we might be forgetting how our immigrant ancestors felt about their homeland...those bonds are much stronger in the first generation than they are for those of us who've been here for multiple generations.

I have friends who now live in Europe but really consider themselves and their kids to be Americans...I'm sure they'd want their kids to play for the US vs. the country they are living in now...especially if the relative strengths of the national teams was the same as US and Italy.
 
Re: World Soccer XIII: Through the Group Stages

to me it comes down to some combination of upbringing location, citizenship, and parental military affiliation (in other words, spending 15 years in Germany doesn't make you a German when your father spent 15 years in the US military).

If people want to be, legitimately, Americans then I have no problem with them playing for our national teams. if they are doing it to play at a international level then I don't want them.

Similarly, if you are a citizen and grew up here I would presume you would be an American and I don't see the ambiguity.

Now, if you had dual-citizenship and split time between the locations... yeah, that's murky and to me whatever happens happens.

In the end its about nationality... Rossi claims to be an American... except when it matters to him. To me that's not an American and its all the hallmarks of a self-interested traitor. American only when convenient.

What I'm seeing is that a lot of other people feel the same way... American only when convenient... but for a lot of people America is the only one they have so they don't step out... but they would if they could.

I personally think that the "American when I feel like it" attitude isn't exactly the best attitude to be fostering or encouraging in this country. As it goes for Rossi... to me he's only American as far as it serves his ends and nothing more.
 
Re: World Soccer XIII: Through the Group Stages

jmh said:
So it's OK to play for the country of your parentage rather than the country of your birth ("home country" is a subjective term; however we may feel about it, reportedly Rossi has always considered himself to be Italian, so he would claim that he is not turning his back on his "home country") if the country of your parentage is your "safety school" (Dooley, Stewart), but not if the country of your parentage is your "reach" (Rossi)?
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Rossi considers himself Italian? That's not what he told ESPN.

But regardless... yes, exactly what you just said. To me, it comes down to a combination of your upbringing, your options, your talent level, and the level of your options.
 
Re: World Soccer XIII: Through the Group Stages

Red Cloud said:
Rossi considers himself Italian? That's not what he told ESPN.

But regardless... yes, exactly what you just said. To me, it comes down to a combination of your upbringing, your options, your talent level, and the level of your options.
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Rossi said he considers himself an American in any aspect except soccer...
 
Re: World Soccer XIII: Through the Group Stages

I personally would play for England over the USA in a heartbeat, but even though I've spent all but 18 months of my life in America, I was born in England.

Does that make me a traitor?
 
Re: World Soccer XIII: Through the Group Stages

Terrierbyassociation said:
I personally would play for England over the USA in a heartbeat, but even though I've spent all but 18 months of my life in America, I was born in England.

Does that make me a traitor?
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If you consider yourself an American in every other facet of life...yes :p
 
Re: World Soccer XIII: Through the Group Stages

Terrierbyassociation said:
I personally would play for England over the USA in a heartbeat, but even though I've spent all but 18 months of my life in America, I was born in England.

Does that make me a traitor?
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No, it makes you a frontrunning tool like Rossi.
 
Re: World Soccer XIII: Through the Group Stages

jmh said:
No, it makes you a frontrunning tool like Rossi.
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Why exactly? I would always want to play for England regardless of how good they are. And its harder for England to play in the World Cup than the USA because of the way the regions work out.

If you want to basically play in guaranteed World Cups, you would play for the USA.
 
Re: World Soccer XIII: Through the Group Stages

Terrierbyassociation said:
Why exactly? I would always want to play for England regardless of how good they are. And its harder for England to play in the World Cup than the USA because of the way the regions work out.

If you want to basically play in guaranteed World Cups, you would play for the USA.
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Oh, I don't think that last part is true at all. They way Euro qualifying works out, England has to play one, maybe two, competitive teams during the qualifying cycle.

If CONCACAF really wanted to make it easy on the US and Mexico, they'd ditch the first couple of stages of qualifying, and do it like UEFA does.
 
Re: World Soccer XIII: Through the Group Stages

WeWantMore said:
Oh, I don't think that last part is true at all. They way Euro qualifying works out, England has to play one, maybe two, competitive teams during the qualifying cycle.

If CONCACAF really wanted to make it easy on the US and Mexico, they'd ditch the first couple of stages of qualifying, and do it like UEFA does.
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We have more challenging matches to qualify for the WC... but its still us, Mexico, Costa Rica and some Central American straggler or two duking it out for the World Cup berths. It's still a challenge, but the way the power is balanced in CONCACAF, it would be a HUGE upset for us not to get a WC berth every shot we get.

England, OTOH, at least has a huge amount of competition to make any given tourney. Keep in mind that they managed to miss out on Euro 2008.
 
Re: World Soccer XIII: Through the Group Stages

I'd take the path of least resistance to get on a national team. Rossi would be having profiles of him done on ESPN had he decided to play for the U.S.
 
Re: World Soccer XIII: Through the Group Stages

Terrierbyassociation said:
I personally would play for England over the USA in a heartbeat, but even though I've spent all but 18 months of my life in America, I was born in England.

Does that make me a traitor?
Click to expand...

Lets play this game then... if you were born in Moldova would you play for them?
 
Re: World Soccer XIII: Through the Group Stages

MountieBoyOz said:
I'd take the path of least resistance to get on a national team. Rossi would be having profiles of him done on ESPN had he decided to play for the U.S.
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You'd have thought a bigger payoff, too: starters drive Cadillacs, bench players drive Fords. Plus he would have been force fed down our throats by the MSM and every marketing tie-in. He would have gotten the full Michael Phelps Deification. Say what you will -- it doesn't seem to have been about money. It sounds like "I want to play in the final," which is pretty common in sports.

So, if he does it for your team, it's an admirable quest for excellence. If he does it against your team, he's an abominable fame-whore.
 
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Re: World Soccer XIII: Through the Group Stages

I won't go so far as to call him a traitor, but I sure can't help but enjoy his exclusion. He could have been a huge part of future US soccer successes, a team and a country that is on the rise in the international game.

I don't blame him for picking Italy, but I sure don't feel sorry for him getting shunned by American fans, either.
 
Re: World Soccer XIII: Through the Group Stages

Patman said:
Lets play this game then... if you were born in Moldova would you play for them?
Click to expand...

Why not throw in the Faroe Islands then? :rolleyes:

Lets throw in a legitimate country, even one that doesn't play that well like Belgium or Austria or Ireland.

I'd play for them if I was born there.
 
Re: World Soccer XIII: Through the Group Stages

Kepler said:
You'd have thought a bigger payoff, too: starters drive Cadillacs, bench players drive Fords. Plus he would have been force fed down our throats by the MSM and every marketing tie-in. He would have gotten the full Michael Phelps Deification. Say what you will -- it doesn't seem to have been about money. It sounds like "I want to play in the final," which is pretty common in sports.

So, if he does it for your team, it's an admirable quest for excellence. If he does it against your team, he's an abominable fame-whore.
Click to expand...

We're not just talking teams, here though. These are national teams, with the pride of a nation riding on them. He self-admittedly claims to be American in everything but soccer. So frankly, him choosing Italy is exactly like being a traitor.
 
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