World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

[Slap Shot]

As for picking an EPL team... I've thought about that a lot, but its really hard to just arbitrarily pick one, isn't it? I have a list of clubs I'm willing to support, but its hard to really try narrowing it down. I didn't grow up with soccer. I have only a cursory knowlege of the history of the game. I've never been to England, nor do I have any family history there. I know very few people who really care about the EPL (I have a college friend who's either a Blackburn or a Bolton fan, but I can't remember which, so that tells you how much we talked about it).

All I have to go one is that I don't like the Big Four....

Someone with no vested interest in the EPL declaring that they refuse to cheer for one of the Big Four seems as arbitrary as deciding who else you would cheer for. If there are enough legitimate influences pushing you away from them you'd think there'd be enough conversely steer toward one team.

Perhaps I'm speaking from too personal of an experience, but I get annoyed with the, "hate the Big 4" concept. The reason I am a ManU fan is because the first soccer coach I ever had (I was 9) was from Manchester and he was a huge fan. Knowing squat about the EPL at the time, I tried to follow them as much as I could. It wasn't very easy to keep track of things (PBS aired EPL games/highlights Sunday mornings for about a year or three) but when it became more apparent of the pecking order I didn't feel like I couldn't root for them. I mean I don't root for them but I also don't hate the Yankees - it doesn't help me as a Twins fan so I just don't get the sentiment.

That said I'm not trying to tell you who to root for, just venting I guess. btw if I had to give up cheering for them my second team is Newcastle.

 

[Biddco]

Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

Someone with no vested interest in the EPL declaring that they refuse to cheer for one of the Big Four seems as arbitrary as deciding who else you would cheer for. If there are enough legitimate influences pushing you away from them you'd think there'd be enough conversely steer toward one team.

Perhaps I'm speaking from too personal of an experience, but I get annoyed with the, "hate the Big 4" concept. The reason I am a ManU fan is because the first soccer coach I ever had (I was 9) was from Manchester and he was a huge fan. Knowing squat about the EPL at the time, I tried to follow them as much as I could. It wasn't very easy to keep track of things (PBS aired EPL games/highlights Sunday mornings for about a year or three) but when it became more apparent of the pecking order I didn't feel like I couldn't root for them. I mean I don't root for them but I also don't hate the Yankees - it doesn't help me as a Twins fan so I just don't get the sentiment.

That said I'm not trying to tell you who to root for, just venting I guess. btw if I had to give up cheering for them my second team is Newcastle.

You are a ManU fan because you knew someone that was a fan. That is different than picking a team because its the only you have heard of, and because they win a lot.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

Perhaps I'm speaking from too personal of an experience, but I get annoyed with the, "hate the Big 4" concept.

But the Yankees suck, right?

 

[AMC]

Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

You are a ManU fan because you knew someone that was a fan. That is different than picking a team because its the only you have heard of, and because they win a lot.

Exactly. You would roll your eyes at a Brit who loved the Yankees or Red Sox.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

Everyone else already explained my thoughts for me: The Big Four operate on the same principles as teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, Lakers, etc. I'm not a fan of them, so why would the Big 4 appeal to me?

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

Everyone else already explained my thoughts for me: The Big Four operate on the same principles as teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, Lakers, etc. I'm not a fan of them, so why would the Big 4 appeal to me?

I think it's a fair cop. I'm a Yankee fan, but there's a heckuva lot more parity in baseball than in soccer. I don't have a real firm attachment to any EPL team - closest is definitely City - so for me it just gets boring seeing the same 3 teams splitting the title every year.

City I started following in the late 90s when they were in the Second Division (what today would be League 1). I noted that they were previously one of the top teams in England and had fallen on hard times, so I kinda pulled for them to get back up to the Premier League. Wigan were in the Second Division at about the same time and they were promoted to the First Division in the same season, so I like them too.

 

[GreatLakerMohawk]

Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

So if you're a Blackburn fan does that make you like the Pirates fan of the EPL?

 

[Terrierbyassociation]

Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

I think part of that is with baseball there are so many variables so its hard to always win even if you spend more than everyone else.

Football allows you to spend a lot of money to procure the best players but also the best coaches, trainers, and create squad depth.

Even though there are a top 4 I would argue Liverpool really isn't it because they never have the money, coaching or youth squad derived talent combination to actually win the title. They can challenge for it, but they don't have the depth in squad to survive any sort of injuries to the top players.

The other top 3 clubs have in the past and will in the future.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

Even though there are a top 4 I would argue Liverpool really isn't it because they never have the money, coaching or youth squad derived talent combination to actually win the title. They can challenge for it, but they don't have the depth in squad to survive any sort of injuries to the top players.

Pretty sure advancing to the Champions League QF and beyond as regularly as they do fills in the blank a little.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

I think part of that is with baseball there are so many variables so its hard to always win even if you spend more than everyone else.

Football allows you to spend a lot of money to procure the best players but also the best coaches, trainers, and create squad depth.

Even though there are a top 4 I would argue Liverpool really isn't it because they never have the money, coaching or youth squad derived talent combination to actually win the title. They can challenge for it, but they don't have the depth in squad to survive any sort of injuries to the top players.

The other top 3 clubs have in the past and will in the future.

I'd argue Liverpool have put forth a lot more money in recent years than Arsenal have, just not as successfully. Liverpool certainly have had resources to challenge in the EPL, they just haven't delivered any hardware.

That said, you go back to the early 2000s, and Liverpool was far from certain to have a Champion's League place. They got bumped several times by teams like Newcastle and Everton. As recently as 2004-2005, they were out of the CL, and tied on points with Bolton! But I'd chalk that up more to them not using their resources well and having someone like Houllier running the squad than that they haven't had the resources to compete. Over the history of the EPL, I'd say Arsenal have had more of an argument of lacking resources than Liverpool does. That's changed at least somewhat now with Emirates. Both Liverpool and Arsenal are a notch or two below ManU and Chelski resourcewise, but they're within shouting distance and at least have the opportunity to compete in a way someone like Wolves don't.

 

[Slap Shot]

Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

But the Yankees suck, right?

Hate the game, not the player.

Actually, as a young kid even though I was a Twins fan first I admired the Yankees and Red Sox. One, I didn't know anything about the money side of things (just yet), didn't care that they were rivals (I didn't cheer for either in the Bucky Dent game for instance and never over the Twins) and it was hard not to be impressed with all the names and faces that played for them in the late 70's.

Everyone else already explained my thoughts for me: The Big Four operate on the same principles as teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, Lakers, etc. I'm not a fan of them, so why would the Big 4 appeal to me?

Personally I'm not not a fan of the Yankees because I feel a need to hate them but rather because I'm already a fan of the Twins. If I was born in Nebraska instead who knows? It's not their fault MLB doesn't have a salary cap and it's not ManU or Chelsea's fault the EPL doesn't either. If they were cheating it would be one thing, but they're simply better at it than most.

But like I said, to each their own.

 

[Terrierbyassociation]

Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

I'd argue Liverpool have put forth a lot more money in recent years than Arsenal have, just not as successfully. Liverpool certainly have had resources to challenge in the EPL, they just haven't delivered any hardware.

That said, you go back to the early 2000s, and Liverpool was far from certain to have a Champion's League place. They got bumped several times by teams like Newcastle and Everton. As recently as 2004-2005, they were out of the CL, and tied on points with Bolton! But I'd chalk that up more to them not using their resources well and having someone like Houllier running the squad than that they haven't had the resources to compete. Over the history of the EPL, I'd say Arsenal have had more of an argument of lacking resources than Liverpool does. That's changed at least somewhat now with Emirates. Both Liverpool and Arsenal are a notch or two below ManU and Chelski resourcewise, but they're within shouting distance and at least have the opportunity to compete in a way someone like Wolves don't.

I'm saying the combination of money-coaching-youth squad development-depth isn't there for Liverpool. Sometimes they have money, sometimes they have youth squad development (Gerrard-Carragher), sometimes they have coaching...Rafa has completely gone to **** this year.

 

[pirate]

Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

Predictions...is City going to make a run at the top with Mancini, stay the same or fall due to the change? If the change was done to placate a few big names on the team then I think it hurts them in the long run.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

I'm saying the combination of money-coaching-youth squad development-depth isn't there for Liverpool. Sometimes they have money, sometimes they have youth squad development (Gerrard-Carragher), sometimes they have coaching...Rafa has completely gone to **** this year.

My point was that the first, money, is what it is, and there is limited control over what is available. But if there is money there, which it has been for the most part for Liverpool over the last decade or so, then there's no excuse for coaching and youth squad development not being there, other than resources not being used wisely.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

Predictions...is City going to make a run at the top with Mancini, stay the same or fall due to the change? If the change was done to placate a few big names on the team then I think it hurts them in the long run.

I think there's too much turmoil this season for them to make a lot of noise this season. If they can settle down and add a few more pieces in January or over the summer, then they'll be a real serious contender next season.

 

[jmh]

Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

So I'm watching Once in A Lifetime, the documentary about the New York Cosmos? Wow, Giorgio Chinaglia is a dick.

 

[Malts18]

Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

I've been trying to pick an EPL team to root for since the beginning of last season, just based on watching games and seeing who I end up pulling for. I really seem to be leaning towards Spurs.

Blechhhh!!!!!

 

[Malts18]

Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

I'm digging Spurs at the moment as well. If only for the fact that I enjoy seeing any team (ANY team) challenge the Big Four. It definately seems like Spurs, Villa and Citeh are doing a much better job of breaking the stranglehold than they have in years past.

As for picking an EPL team... I've thought about that a lot, but its really hard to just arbitrarily pick one, isn't it? I have a list of clubs I'm willing to support, but its hard to really try narrowing it down. I didn't grow up with soccer. I have only a cursory knowlege of the history of the game. I've never been to England, nor do I have any family history there. I know very few people who really care about the EPL (I have a college friend who's either a Blackburn or a Bolton fan, but I can't remember which, so that tells you how much we talked about it).

All I have to go one is that I don't like the Big Four, and I'm sure I'd like whichever English team is the most similar to my favorite American teams (Green Bay Packers and the Minnesota Wild... yeah, try finding similarities between those franchises, beyond having very tradition-minded fans).

Why don't you pick Villa then?? They are good... fun to watch... and are outside the Big Four, and they are from just outside of Birmingham (a pretty big city). You could do worse. If I were not an Arsenal fan, I would seriously consider Villa.

 

[Malts18]

Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

I'd argue Liverpool have put forth a lot more money in recent years than Arsenal have, just not as successfully. Liverpool certainly have had resources to challenge in the EPL, they just haven't delivered any hardware.

That said, you go back to the early 2000s, and Liverpool was far from certain to have a Champion's League place. They got bumped several times by teams like Newcastle and Everton. As recently as 2004-2005, they were out of the CL, and tied on points with Bolton! But I'd chalk that up more to them not using their resources well and having someone like Houllier running the squad than that they haven't had the resources to compete. Over the history of the EPL, I'd say Arsenal have had more of an argument of lacking resources than Liverpool does. That's changed at least somewhat now with Emirates. Both Liverpool and Arsenal are a notch or two below ManU and Chelski resourcewise, but they're within shouting distance and at least have the opportunity to compete in a way someone like Wolves don't.

Bob... two things about Arsenal.... first, Wenger is very reluctant to spend. The board maintains that he always has about 30m pounds at his disposal, but it rarely gets used. Take this last summer.... Arsenal sold Adebayor and Toure for around 27m pounds (I believe) and only brought in Vermaelen (10m pounds). That was a net GAIN of 17m pounds for Arsenal. Who else does this? Arsenal buys low... turns players to stars.... and moves them on for a healthy profit.

Also, keep in mind that while Emirates is a cash cow, it does have massive cost involved. They are in the midst of paying off the debt service at a rate of around 20m pounds per yr (and that will be for the next 20+ yrs). Sorta small potatoes when you consider all the match day revenue Emirates generates, plus TV rights, plus CL participation and extras.

The biggest hurdle for Arsenal remains Wenger's own reluctance to spend. As the January transfer window is about to open, watch..... Wenger, in my opinion, MUST buy a top-end striker (as Robin van Persie is likely done for the year with a bad ankle injury) and could definitely use a defensive midfielder (he still has not effectively replaced Mathieu Flamini). So... I think he needs two players (and good ones) to effectively have a shot at the title this year. If he does not, Arsenal likely finishes 3rd.

 

[JF_Gophers]

Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

Why don't you pick Villa then?? They are good... fun to watch... and are outside the Big Four, and they are from just outside of Birmingham (a pretty big city). You could do worse. If I were not an Arsenal fan, I would seriously consider Villa.

... and Villa goes out and gets stomped 3-0 by Arsenal. Oops.