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World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

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Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

Terrierbyassociation said:
I think the FIFA strategy of giving the host an automatic top seed to ensure they play the opening game is stupid. Why can't you guarantee the opening game to South Africa and keep them out of the top bracket?

Seems like throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Also, lets use the SPI index instead of FIFA's own rankings because they are awful.

Brazil
Spain
England
Netherlands
Argentina
Germany
Portugal
Chile

top 8 seeds

Ivory Coast
Uruguay
France
Italy
Serbia
Cameroon
USA
Paraguay

Mexico
Denmark
Australia
Honduras
Switzerland
Greece
Nigeria
Japan

Ghana
Slovenia
South Korea
Algeria
Slovakia
South Africa
New Zealand
North Korea

Disallow top seeds from playing teams in the second group if they are in the same region.
Click to expand...

I kept South Africa in A1 because they're the host. This is the draw:

Code: 
Group A			Group B		Group C		Group D		Group E		Group F		Group G		Group H
South Africa		Germany	        Argentina	Portugal	Brazil		Netherlands	Spain		England
Chile			Serbia		France		Uruguay		USA		Cameroon	Italy		Ivory Coast
Denmark			Australia	Greece		Honduras	Switzerland	Mexico	        Nigeria		Paraguay
Slovakia		Ghana	        Algeria	        New Zealand	Japan		S. Korea	N. Korea	Slovenia
 
Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

CollegeHockeyAddict said:
Is anybody posting in this thread going to the World Cup? I think it would be a great time. Don't really know if it's realistic at this point in terms of getting tickets and other things since it's such a bid deal. Is it too late? Any thoughts?
Click to expand...

I went to Germany in 2006, but I was working an unpaid legal internship so it was simple to blow town for a week. Actual employment means I likely won't be going to this one.

When I went over with my friends we didn't have any tickets, but other than paying for one supremely expensive game managed to snag a few late opening round matchups for face value and lucked into some US-Ghana tickets for free. However, I imagine there will be more tickets available. A World Cup in the heart of Europe is going to have more demand than almost anywhere else.

Some people mentioned up thread that South Africa can be a very different experience depening on what cities you were staying in.
 
Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

Rolevio said:
My problem is FIFA's last minute decisions on the rules for all draws. Rules for European playoff draws, World Cup seeding, pot composition should have all been determined long ago before qualification began.

Let's reward France and Portugal for having large fanbases in the Euro playoffs by seeding them, now let's punish France for cheating by using October's rankings instead of Novembers, it's all too sketchy.
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While its hard to argue against FIFA being sketchy...I can't argue with FIFA choosing to use the October Rankings because it did unfairly boost Portugal and France because they were still trying to qualify in the Euro playoffs. I agree that their timing is horrible and completely lacks transparency but its pretty difficult to have pot composition determined long before qualification begins when you have confederations getting "half" spots and you don't know the breakdown of who is seeded or the # of teams from each confederation that will eventually qualify. I honestly don't think FIFA rewarded Portugal and France with seedings because of their large fanbases nor do I believe FIFA "punished" France by using the October Rankings. I certainly think they could do a few small things to drastically increase transparency that would aid in making them look far less sketchy:

1) Have detailed guidelines about how all playoffs are done (like how UEFA must do their draw for their playoff)
2) Guidelines set forth at least 1 year in advance of the Draw of how the seeding will be determined and how many teams will be seeeded
3) A rough guideline on how the remaining unseeded teams will be broken down with some major contingencies outlined
 
Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

Shirtless Guy said:
While its hard to argue against FIFA being sketchy...I can't argue with FIFA choosing to use the October Rankings because it did unfairly boost Portugal and France because they were still trying to qualify in the Euro playoffs.
Click to expand...
The only reason there was a boost is because the FIFA rankings are broken, but that's really not news to anyone.
 
Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

J.D. said:
How is giving South Africa a top seed fair? I don't care that they're the host. I'm being sincere here...is there anything from the pots/draw that sticks out as being incredibly unfair?
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It's something that's always been done. It was just a bit different last time when Germany was the host.
 
Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

Craig P. said:
The only reason there was a boost is because the FIFA rankings are broken, but that's really not news to anyone.
Click to expand...
Oh really? Using the SPI Portugal moved from 8 to 7...which would have made them a seeded team like the FIFA rankings...does that make them flawed as well?
 
Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

To make everyone happy ;)

The draw (using SPI rankings) with South Africa as a normal team:

Group A: Germany Cameroon Honduras Slovenia
Group B: Portugal Serbia Japan South Africa
Group C: Brazil France Mexico Ghana
Group D: Argentina Italy Australia Algeria
Group E: England USA Nigeria Slovakia
Group F: Chile Ivory Coast Greece New Zealand
Group G: Netherlands Uruguay Denmark N. Korea
Group H: Spain Paraguay Switzerland S. Korea

The most balanced World Cup (no rules, using SPI rankings):

Group A: Brazil Paraguay Mexico N. Korea
Group B: Spain USA Denmark New Zealand
Group C: England Cameroon Australia South Africa
Group D: Netherlands Serbia Honduras Slovakia
Group E: Argentina Italy Switzerland Algeria
Group F: Germany France Greece S. Korea
Group G: Portugal Uruguay Nigeria Slovenia
Group H: Chile Ivory Coast Japan Ghana

With FIFA rules (2 EUFA teams per group max, one team from a confederation)

Group A: Brazil Cameroon Mexico N. Korea
Group B: Spain USA Denmark New Zealand
Group C: England Paraguay Australia Slovakia
Group D: Netherlands Serbia Honduras South Africa
Group E: Argentina Italy Switzerland Algeria
Group F: Germany France Japan Ghana
Group G: Portugal Uruguay Nigeria Slovenia
Group H: Chile Ivory Coast Greece S. Korea
 
Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

Shirtless Guy said:
Oh really? Using the SPI Portugal moved from 8 to 7...which would have made them a seeded team like the FIFA rankings...does that make them flawed as well?
Click to expand...

Perhaps the way I should put it is, the only way recognizing a boost is inherently wrong is if the rating is broken. The fact is, the playoffs are additional information about the teams, and if winning the playoff suggests that they're better than they were previously rated, I don't have a problem with that. If you don't want them to be seeded, why not just disallow seeding of a team involved in a playoff?
 
Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

Craig P. said:
Perhaps the way I should put it is, the only way recognizing a boost is inherently wrong is if the rating is broken. The fact is, the playoffs are additional information about the teams, and if winning the playoff suggests that they're better than they were previously rated, I don't have a problem with that. If you don't want them to be seeded, why not just disallow seeding of a team involved in a playoff?
Click to expand...
Being that we are all college hockey fans we understand how bad rating systems can be or arbitrary the criteria can be (RPI) but I can't disagree more...it makes sense that a game that matters has more weight than a friendly...should denmark get as much of a boost for being USA in a friendly that didn't involve america's top 4(?) players vs France playing Ireland and winning a game that means something?

France and Portugal benefited from playing 2 games that mattered while Argentina and England qualified without needing to participate in a playoff...
Uruguay moved up 6 spots because of its playoff with Costa Rica
 
Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

Today's the big day, ain't it.

Great story — They've done a few rehearsal draws with the lovely Ms. Theron. She pulled out a slip that said "FRANCE" and said:

"Ireland."

WIN.

---

Seriously, two things to note — If FIFA is really rigging this, and I think we all think they're going to try, don't underestimate their propensity to rig the team in the opening match to generate maxiumum buzz. I'd be more convinced that the "fix was in" if Group A was South Africa, France, North Korea and Uruguay than South Africa, Slovakia, North Korea and Uruguay.

I don't think FIFA wants to rig it so South Africa wins its group, they just want to make sure advancing isn't impossible.
 
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Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

J.D. said:
How is giving South Africa a top seed fair? I don't care that they're the host. I'm being sincere here...is there anything from the pots/draw that sticks out as being incredibly unfair?
Click to expand...

blockski said:
Well, every other host nation has been extended that courtesy.

Beyond that, it's usually good for business to give the 'home' team a better chance of advancing, no?
Click to expand...

BoomGoestheDynamite said:
The host generally spends a lot of money to put on this show so I have no problems with FIFA "rewarding" them with a seed. What I do have a problem with is rigged draws *cough* Confederations Cup *cough* that are designed to guarantee a crappy host makes it out of the group stages. Can't wait to see Slovenia, Uruguay, and New Zealand in Group A.
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Exactly. Every host country has to spend a whole lot of money to just even be in the running for hosting a world cup. Its probably second only to the Olympics in terms of money you would have to spend just to get to the final nomination process. Gotta have venue plans all figured out, hotels ready, transportation in around the stadiums and between the stadiums as well. Its all not cheap. You don't exactly see countries like Brazil jumping at the chance all the time to host the World Cup.
 
Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

bigmrg74 said:
Exactly. Every host country has to spend a whole lot of money to just even be in the running for hosting a world cup. Its probably second only to the Olympics in terms of money you would have to spend just to get to the final nomination process. Gotta have venue plans all figured out, hotels ready, transportation in around the stadiums and between the stadiums as well. Its all not cheap. You don't exactly see countries like Brazil jumping at the chance all the time to host the World Cup.
Click to expand...

...

The reason Brazil doesn't get the World Cup often is because its infrastructure is messed up and all their stadiums are crumbling. Brazil has been trying to get a WC for a while. Brazil is getting it next for 2014.

The host country deserves the opening game, that's it. They don't deserve a top seed.
 
Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

Terrierbyassociation said:
...

The reason Brazil doesn't get the World Cup often is because its infrastructure is messed up and all their stadiums are crumbling. Brazil has been trying to get a WC for a while. Brazil is getting it next for 2014.

The host country deserves the opening game, that's it. They don't deserve a top seed.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying the host country deserves to get a top bid and an easier on paper chance of advancing out of their pool. Thats just what the host country wants for their troubles of putting on the show for everybody else, besides the fact of having a ****ton of soccer fans from around the world coming there and spending their money there.
 
Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

Apparently the US is leading in fans buying tickets to the World Cup followed by England.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/soccer/12/04/wcup.fans/index.html?eref=sihp

And coincidentally, England-USA is in the competition's smallest venue with only 42,000.

Interesting, considering ESPN had an article that the US delegation for the 2018/2022 bid is promising a new record in attendance thinking 5 million is likely (1994 had 3.9 million)
 
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