World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

[Priceless]

Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

The average strength of the pots:

Pot 1: 14.875
Pot 2: 43.000
Pot 3: 22.500
Pot 4: 19.375

Had FIFA gone the other way with the CONCACAF/CONMEBOL countries:

Pot 1: 14.875
Pot 2: 22.475
Pot 3: 42.875
Pot 4: 19.375

Whoever got grouped with the Asian teams was going to get screwed. Unfortunately FIFA doesn't have any imagination when it comes to grouping teams together...

I looked at the FIFA procedures and nothing talks about the seed, so it appears Pot 2 = Seed 2 and so on. With that in mind, here is a random draw...

Group A			Group B			Group C			Group D			Group E			Group F			Group G			Group H
South Africa		Netherlands		Spain			Italy			       England			Germany			Argentina			Brazil
N. Korea			New Zealand		Australia			Mexico			United States		Honduras			S. Korea			Japan
Uruguay			Algeria			Cameroon			Ghana			Chile			       Paraguay			Nigeria			Ivory Coast
Serbia			Slovenia			Slovakia			Greece			Denmark			France			Switzerland		Portugal

Hard to pick just one Group of Death in this bunch, but the USA's group is a contender...

Hope the real draw doesn't look like this...

 

[jmh]

Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

Two points on the Xerez-Barca game on ESPN2 right now:

1. Really w/ the uniforms Barca? I liked the orange, and really liked the teal, but pink is a bit much.

I think they're calling it "mango" or something ridiculous like that. Ugly is what it is. The problem is they need a light color and they wouldn't wear white because it'd look like Madrid.

 

[Priceless]

Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

Soccer by Ives did a mock draw too.

And just to waste everyone's time and kill productivity: Link

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

Here are the potential schedules for the Yanks depending on which group they get drawn into.

All Groups
Game 1 vs. Pot 1
Game 2 vs. Pot 4
Game 3 vs. Pot 3

How exactly do we get screwed with this too? Do you really want to play the seeded team 1st? I though each group other than A was a bit more random than that?

 

[Priceless]

Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

How exactly do we get screwed with this too? Do you really want to play the seeded team 1st? I though each group other than A was a bit more random than that?

"Oh, you're a US fan? Bend over, grab ankles."

 

[realet]

Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

Are you sure they've already set the schedule by the pots? In the past, after the seeds, they've also drawn for group position—our draw in '06 was bad not just because it was a strong group, but also because we drew Czechia in the first game and they wore down badly as the group stage progressed.

It's possible, but they already know where South Africa is playing all three of its games. Maybe they won't do that for Group A, I don't know.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

It's possible, but they already know where South Africa is playing all three of its games. Maybe they won't do that for Group A, I don't know.

I'm pretty sure group A is the exception with a set schedule to guarantee the host is in the first game, the rest are drawn randomly...

 

[Priceless]

Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

I'm pretty sure group A is the exception with a set schedule to guarantee the host is in the first game, the rest are drawn randomly...

When is the schedule drawn? I thought it was done by seeds, and that process isn't addressed in the FIFA procedures.

 

[pirate]

Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

Craig, I'm telling you this from a professional point of view as a referee: Stop. Shut up. Please, you're way off on this.

The responsibility for that call was from the referee, not his assitant. To expect any AR to see through 20 players and see that handling of the ball on the far post is ridiculous. To even speculate that he saw anything is ridiculous. Ther fault lays upon the referee for not being in a deeper position on the free kick, closer to the goal line, instead of being out towards the top of the penalty arc. Had the referee been in the correct position none of this mess would be happening.

You mean the same guy that missed 2 players offsides on the same kick? The replay I saw showed there weren't 20 players between the AR and Henry when he touched the ball, they drew an arrow on the screen to show that. It was Irish TV so I'm not saying the arrow was straight

Do you think the AR was properly positioned once the ball, Henry and the last defender proceeded towards the goal? Seems to me he was out of position.

I don't disagree that the ref should have been in a better spot but he was the one with half a dozen guys between him and the ball. Wouldn't it be realistic to expect the AR to have his eyes on the last defender and the ball and then raise his flag when the player touched the ball two times and there was no whistle...perhaps the ref sees the same thing, perhaps not, I thought the AR was there to support in instances like that.

I'm not a professional ref, but I'm travelling tomorrow and am booked in a Holiday Inn Express (only game in town), I'll see if I disagree with myself Friday morning.

 

[jmh]

Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

How exactly do we get screwed with this too? Do you really want to play the seeded team 1st?

Depends on which it is, I'd imagine. If it's a "traditional slow starter" (Italy and Brazil, right?) or a team with chemistry/coaching/goaltending issues (Argentina in this situation, I'd say), I'd want to play them first, but if it's a team with old or injury-prone core players (like Czech Republic in 2006) or if it's the host team, then I'd want to play them later.

 

[J.D.]

Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

How could you possibly punish Henry for that? That doesn't make any sense.

The draw is what it is. Is it perfect? No, but I don't see any huge problems with it other than I don't think the host should necessarily be given a top seed.

 

[Rolevio]

Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

And just to waste everyone's time and kill productivity: Link

First draw I did with this and got "Group A: South Africa, USA, Paraguay, Slovenia." One can hope.

Of course the fourth one was Argentina, USA, Ivory Coast, Portugal

 

[Craig P.]

Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

Craig, I'm telling you this from a professional point of view as a referee: Stop. Shut up. Please, you're way off on this.

The responsibility for that call was from the referee, not his assitant. To expect any AR to see through 20 players and see that handling of the ball on the far post is ridiculous. To even speculate that he saw anything is ridiculous. Ther fault lays upon the referee for not being in a deeper position on the free kick, closer to the goal line, instead of being out towards the top of the penalty arc. Had the referee been in the correct position none of this mess would be happening.

Jim, I've seen the photos. The assistant had a view of the foul as positioned, the referee didn't, and at least one of the refs who posts on BigSoccer (I have no idea how good he is) claims that he talks about those types of fouls with his assistants in pregames.

I don't know anything about this personally, but literally everything I'm seeing secondhand is that only a very few refs will take a deeper position on a free kick like that, it's not something that's widely espoused. Consequently, IMO, there's no justification for calling the referee's position incorrect. About the most you can say is, this presents an excellent case for changing the current thinking on how the referee positions himself on offensive zone dead balls.

 

[Craig P.]

Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

It's possible, but they already know where South Africa is playing all three of its games. Maybe they won't do that for Group A, I don't know.

They know that because the seeds are fixed in position 1 in each group, and South Africa is fixed in A1.

My understanding is that the non-seeds will draw for position within the group as well as the group itself.

 

[Priceless]

Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

First draw I did with this and got "Group A: South Africa, USA, Paraguay, Slovenia." One can hope.

I got that, except the 4th member was Switzerland. The Mexicans drew Italy and France.

 

[jmh]

Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

Fact: The host nation has never failed to advance from the group stage of the World Cup.

(Nitpick: Except for 1934 and 1938, when there was no group stage, only a single-elimination tournament, but in both cases the host did win at least their first match.)

 

[realet]

Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

And just to waste everyone's time and kill productivity: Link

Good Lord. My first draw on that site gave me this:

Group E: Italy, United States, Ghana, Slovakia

Does that seem familiar to you guys for some reason?

 

[Jimjamesak]

Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

Jim, I've seen the photos. The assistant had a view of the foul as positioned, the referee didn't, and at least one of the refs who posts on BigSoccer (I have no idea how good he is) claims that he talks about those types of fouls with his assistants in pregames.

I don't know anything about this personally, but literally everything I'm seeing secondhand is that only a very few refs will take a deeper position on a free kick like that, it's not something that's widely espoused. Consequently, IMO, there's no justification for calling the referee's position incorrect. About the most you can say is, this presents an excellent case for changing the current thinking on how the referee positions himself on offensive zone dead balls.

It's weird because every thing I've heard many assessors and referees was that the referee was in the wrong position and to ask the AR to make that call is crazy.

And I can say from firsthand experience, as an AR, there is no way I would be able to make that call. At that speed I would've had to have been a) running to the goal line (only Usain Bolt could be standing and waiting to that call), b) trying to remember who was in an offside position when the ball was kicked (although with practice this is somewhat easy), and c) look through upwards of 10 players and both goalposts from about 40 yards (standard international width of field is 74yds., /2, is 37 plus 4yds. for the other half of the goal is 41 yards) to see that. Why should that be my call when the referee should've been looking right at it from 15 yards away and should've been able to see that if he wasn't so central and out wider.

 

[Priceless]

Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

The best bet is obviously to draw South Africa, but short of that the best bet may be to be in Argentina's group (or Brazil). That guarantees we don't draw a South American team and gives us a 3/5 chance of avoiding the Ivory Coast and Cameroon, and means we'd get the #22, 28 or 37 in the rankings.

 

[Jimjamesak]

Re: World Soccer XI: To South Africa, and Beyond!

Good Lord. My first draw on that site gave me this:

Group E: Italy, United States, Ghana, Slovakia

Does that seem familiar to you guys for some reason?

My draw:

Group A: South Africa, North Korea, Chile, Denmark
Group B: Italy, Honduras, Algeria. Slovenia
Group C: Holland, USA, Uruguay, Portugal
Group D: England, Australia, Cameroon, France
Group E: Argentina, New Zealand, Ivory Coast, Greece
Group F: Germany, Mexico, Paraguay, Slovakia
Group G: Spain, Japan, Nigeria, Serbia
Group H: Brazil, South Korea, Ghana, Switzerland

So you'd have two ridiculous groups in Groups A and E and three Groups of Death in C, D, and H.

Basically, out of the 5 very good teams in pot 2 (USA, Mexico, South Korea, Japan, and Australia), 2-3 are basically going to get screwed with their draws.