World Soccer X: Duh, duh, duh, duh...The Champions!

[blockski]

Re: World Soccer X: Duh, duh, duh, duh...The Champions!

Ok, so is Watford going to sue Acuvue because Jay DeMerit is out with a contact lens injury? Surely, putting in your contacts isn't behavior prohibited by his contract. I'll bet Acuvue has lots of money, too.

What if Gooch tore up his knee slipping in a puddle of water outside rainy RFK yesterday?

If the law prevents the club from collecting, that's all the more reason to have insurance.

 

[Terrierbyassociation]

Re: World Soccer X: Duh, duh, duh, duh...The Champions!

We're not going to agree. So let's agree to disagree.

I hope someone borrows your car and wrecks it, but of no fault of theirs.

 

[Terrierbyassociation]

Re: World Soccer X: Duh, duh, duh, duh...The Champions!

Ok, so is Watford going to sue Acuvue because Jay DeMerit is out with a contact lens injury? Surely, putting in your contacts isn't behavior prohibited by his contract. I'll bet Acuvue has lots of money, too.

What if Gooch tore up his knee slipping in a puddle of water outside rainy RFK yesterday?

If the law prevents the club from collecting, that's all the more reason to have insurance.

You're ignoring the point intentionally. Why should the USSF profit using club players if they won't even pay the clubs when the players are injured while profiting the federation?

 

[bronconick]

Re: World Soccer X: Duh, duh, duh, duh...The Champions!

Even the NHL run by that incompetent dwarf insures its players during international events.

 

[Terrierbyassociation]

Re: World Soccer X: Duh, duh, duh, duh...The Champions!

Even the NHL run by that incompetent dwarf insures its players during international events.

All I'm saying is the USSF should be paying for the insurance: all the feds should be. It's only fair.

 

[blockski]

Re: World Soccer X: Duh, duh, duh, duh...The Champions!

We're not going to agree. So let's agree to disagree.

I hope someone borrows your car and wrecks it, but of no fault of theirs.

It would be nice if they paid for it, but I don't think I'd have any legal recourse.

If I were smart and knew that I'd be lending my car out a lot and there's potential for damage, I'd probably get some pretty good insurance for that car so that if it's totalled, I'm somewhat compensated.

You're ignoring the point intentionally. Why should the USSF profit using club players if they won't even pay the clubs when the players are injured while profiting the federation?

Why should the USSF be liable? They didn't force Gooch out there, I'm pretty sure he was representing his country voluntarily. And, as Boom notes, Milan ought to have expected that something like this could happen.

All I'm saying is the USSF should be paying for the insurance: all the feds should be. It's only fair.

But you can't cry about that after the fact, can you?

 

[Terrierbyassociation]

Re: World Soccer X: Duh, duh, duh, duh...The Champions!

Also they borrow the car without asking.

Again, FIFA disallows club contracts from denying permission to play internationally. So basically it's circular reasoning. The clubs can't do anything about it because the people who want to steal their players (because really, that's what it is, it's theft) write the rules.

And this is something I've been railing about for years, not recently. And before injuries.

Besides Fernando Torres, I could care less about this on a personal level. Oh, and the FA actually pays the clubs compensation.

 

[jmh]

Re: World Soccer X: Duh, duh, duh, duh...The Champions!

The possibility that a high-level player might get injured while on national team duty is something that clubs take into account (or, at least, should take into account) when deciding whom to sign and how much to pay them. If they don't like that risk, they should sign different players.

 

[Craig P.]

Re: World Soccer X: Duh, duh, duh, duh...The Champions!

The USSF profits greatly from using club players.

And they pay the players accordingly, or did you miss when we almost had to send a team of scrubs to Port of Spain because of a dispute over the player contract for national team play?

I'd feel a lot more sympathetic to Milan's case if they hadn't buried Onyewu on the bench. As it is, their real loss in this situation is highly speculative.

 

[JohnN]

Re: World Soccer X: Duh, duh, duh, duh...The Champions!

Does anyone know what kind of legal protection the NBA and NHL teams have for this type of situation? If Alex Ovechkin were to get hurt playing in the Olympics, I imagine something has been worked out in advance.


I tend to agree with Terrierbyassociation on this issue. As the borrowing party, the national federations should have insurance policies on their players, not the other way around.

In this particular case, however, considering the type of injury it was and the fact it happened very late in the second game in five days, a lack of playing time this fall was probably a factor in the injury.

 

[Terrierbyassociation]

Re: World Soccer X: Duh, duh, duh, duh...The Champions!

The possibility that a high-level player might get injured while on national team duty is something that clubs take into account (or, at least, should take into account) when deciding whom to sign and how much to pay them. If they don't like that risk, they should sign different players.

That's absurd. You want teams to put things to chance? I'm sorry, the top leagues of Europe and South America can't put that to chance. There aren't enough MLS guys they can sign and the level of football is terrible in the MLS anyways.

This is stupid. All I am saying is the clubs should be paid compensation if the players are injured. The international game has changed dramatically: at one point about 40 years ago the game of soccer was dominated by international teams: everything that soccer was earned by international teams. Now the game is dominated by the club game and the sport has radically changed.

But the way the laws of the game were written don't take into account that change.

Craig you are arguing semantics. I know the players are paid by the feds. But its a tiny amount and my issue was the clubs aren't paid to use the players.

This isn't about Gooch. It's about what his injury represents legally in the football world.

Which has changed radically since they wrote the rules.

 

[jmh]

Re: World Soccer X: Duh, duh, duh, duh...The Champions!

The USSF profits greatly from using club players.

And the clubs profit from having their players play in international matches, through the players getting high-level experience (leading to the players' skills improving, leading to the team being better, leading to better opportunities at various prizes and whatnot) and through better marketing opportunities for international players (American fans are more likely to buy Milan merchandise due to Onyewu playing there; fans local to a club are more likely to buy a player's shirt if he's playing internationally, especially if the club is in the player's home country). So yes, the clubs *are* receiving revenue because their players are playing internationally.

 

[Jimjamesak]

Re: World Soccer X: Duh, duh, duh, duh...The Champions!

I'd feel a lot more sympathetic to Milan's case if they hadn't buried Onyewu on the bench. As it is, their real loss in this situation is highly speculative.

And I'd be a lot more sympathetic if it didn't smell of a large rich club trying to pry some money from a large money making federation. If Gooch was playing for Nigeria you know AC Milan wouldn't be asking for anything. This issue isn't about all National Federations paying for players injuried in international games. It's only about the ones that can afford it.

 

[Jimjamesak]

Re: World Soccer X: Duh, duh, duh, duh...The Champions!

And the clubs profit from having their players play in international matches, through the players getting high-level experience (leading to the players' skills improving, leading to the team being better, leading to better opportunities at various prizes and whatnot) and through better marketing opportunities for international players (American fans are more likely to buy Milan merchandise due to Onyewu playing there; fans local to a club are more likely to buy a player's shirt if he's playing internationally, especially if the club is in the player's home country). So yes, the clubs *are* receiving revenue because their players are playing internationally.

Bingo. Think Manchester United didn't know that when they signed JS Park? How about Fulham when they signed McBride and Dempsey? The clubs are making just as much money from the international exposure of the players.

 

[Patman]

Re: World Soccer X: Duh, duh, duh, duh...The Champions!

That's absurd. You want teams to put things to chance? I'm sorry, the top leagues of Europe and South America can't put that to chance. There aren't enough MLS guys they can sign and the level of football is terrible in the MLS anyways.

This is stupid. All I am saying is the clubs should be paid compensation if the players are injured. The international game has changed dramatically: at one point about 40 years ago the game of soccer was dominated by international teams: everything that soccer was earned by international teams. Now the game is dominated by the club game and the sport has radically changed.

But the way the laws of the game were written don't take into account that change.

Craig you are arguing semantics. I know the players are paid by the feds. But its a tiny amount and my issue was the clubs aren't paid to use the players.

This isn't about Gooch. It's about what his injury represents legally in the football world.

Which has changed radically since they wrote the rules.

You know what, that's exactly what insurance is for and if the clubs don't like it then they can go and stuff it.

 

[bronconick]

Re: World Soccer X: Duh, duh, duh, duh...The Champions!

Does anyone know what kind of legal protection the NBA and NHL teams have for this type of situation? If Alex Ovechkin were to get hurt playing in the Olympics, I imagine something has been worked out in advance.


I tend to agree with Terrierbyassociation on this issue. As the borrowing party, the national federations should have insurance policies on their players, not the other way around.

In this particular case, however, considering the type of injury it was and the fact it happened very late in the second game in five days, a lack of playing time this fall was probably a factor in the injury.

http://www.ctvolympics.ca/hockey/news/newsid=13719.html

Sounds like there's a deal between the NHLPA and Hockey Canada and USA hockey that would cover *most* of this season.

Guess the key part would be

Come the actual Games next February, players will be fully covered under the terms of the Olympic agreement, with the cost assumed by a number of stakeholders, including national federations, NHL clubs, and the International Ice Hockey Federation.

The fact that the NHL owners don't want to continue with that agreement is one of the future sticking points in the next CBA.

Considering that any European club that I've heard of likely makes more money then any NHL team, I think they can sack up and buy some insurance themselves, even if the USSF and FIFA don't kick in.

 

[Craig P.]

Re: World Soccer X: Duh, duh, duh, duh...The Champions!

I'm not necessarily opposed to some sort of pooled compensation arrangement for clubs. I do think that if such a thing should exist, it should be funded by both the national feds <em>and</em> the clubs.

 

[Terrierbyassociation]

Re: World Soccer X: Duh, duh, duh, duh...The Champions!

You know what, that's exactly what insurance is for and if the clubs don't like it then they can go and stuff it.

The issue is who pays for that insurance. Why should the clubs pay for the insurance for international play? The countries should pay for the insurance if they want to use the club players.

Why should the clubs pay for insurance when the countries actually benefit from using them?

Pay to play. Pay for the insurance and the clubs are still losing out because they're losing someone they pay for that they might not necessarily be able to replace.

England FA does things the right way and pays. Not all feds do.

 

[blockski]

Re: World Soccer X: Duh, duh, duh, duh...The Champions!

I'm not necessarily opposed to some sort of pooled compensation arrangement for clubs. I do think that if such a thing should exist, it should be funded by both the national feds <em>and</em> the clubs.

I think this much is obvious - the players should be insured. Who pays (and benefits, in the case of injury) for that would be worth more discussion.

The point of insurance, however, is to buy it before the bad stuff happens. From a legal and fairness perspective, I'm unmoved by Milan's argument. From a fan's perspective, I find it funny that the main reason Gooch's stock rose so highly was because of his performance on the National team - not to mention the fact that they want compensation for a guy they haven't been playing because he won't be able to play.

 

[AMC]

Re: World Soccer X: Duh, duh, duh, duh...The Champions!

That red card on Ghana was weak. He wasn't the last man.