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World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

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Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

At least my manager and management are competent. Hicks and Gillette are killing your team. I'm not a Pool fan, but I do respect them. I respect the old days of Shankley. (He's on my list of fave managers behing Cloughie and Fergie.) However, you have to admit the Pool is struggling. Why in the heck did you give up Xavi Alonso and what possesed you to hire Roy Hodgson? The only reason you made Europe is because Pompey didn't file the paperwork for the UEFA license in time. The Pool needs to get in that time machine and get Shanks, Daglish and Souness.
 
Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

Liverpool simply needs to sell the team to competent owners who actually have the cash to own a team.

It's Xabi Alonso, and he was sold because he wanted out after a row with Rafa over missing a Champions League match to attend the birth of his daughter.

We hired Roy because he was the only competent manager willing to basically accept a team that finished 7th in the table and was getting 0 cash to buy new players.
 
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Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

Congrats, you picked a team an ocean away that's been good your entire life.
What, you mean like you did?
I love punks like you, talking trash about accomplishments you have no part of.
What, you mean like you did?
Despite it all, Liverpool has more European Cups (and has come very close to two more Cups) and has as many top league titles.
what possesed you to hire Roy Hodgson?
He's, um, a good manager?
 
Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

What, you mean like you did?What, you mean like you did?He's, um, a good manager?

Liverpool finished 7th the year I started to follow them for the 98-99 season. I only followed them for Michael Owen, not for glory.

How is stating facts talking trash? I said despite him bashing Liverpool they've managed to win just as many titles as United, and have more European Cups. That's after what, 21 years since Liverpool has been truly up there for the title?

That's not talking trash in response.

And Hodgson is a good manager and even if Liverpool had finished in the top 4, I believe Rafa needed to go as he had lost the locker room.
 
Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

A couple of things after talking about the MLS after the World Cup with a couple of friends who are lot more soccer savvy than myself.

The MLS schedule is good because:

-The off season allows some of the better players to travel to more prestigious leagues ala Landon to showcase their talents.

-Having a summer schedule permits foreign teams from coming over and playing exhibitions. Displaying teams, stadiums, fans, etc of the MLS could undoubtedly lead to players looking more favorably at playing in America.

-Unlike European teams, the MLS would have to compete with the NFL, NBA, NCAA and NHL for fans if there were a more typical football schedule.

The more interesting part of the conversation to me was does the North American soccer system need to be more centralized? As in do developmental leagues have the resources available to allow for a promotion/demotion system similar to the EPL?

When the MLS grows enough could perhaps the top-2 in the USL be promoted and the bottom-2 in the MLS be demoted? Or is the commitment by cities and teams to build soccer-specific stadiums too integral on top division play to allow for demotion?

Or could it be seen as an incentive for smaller market teams to invest more into the teams knowing that with good play they are able to reach the MLS?

With the US being practically the only nation that calls footballl soccer, does the league need to be rebranded? Major League Soccer definitely takes off of American sports model of naming, but to market the league better internationally would a top league named something like American Football Association? Or rather does actual football or the lack of international interest make this difficult?
 
Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

the problem with promotion/relegation is support structure... soccer is still not all that popular in the US... its better, sure... but its not to the level of these nations that support such a system. We've seen issues with the nominal second-division of domestic soccer in the past year... further most of the national systems are borne out of past-eras.

I'm not going to say its impossible... never such thing as impossible. I don't think owners will want to submit themselves to it.

I think a promotion/relegation system would have to come out of some crisis (unlikely) or a pre-planned arrangement in a new league.

In general promotion/relegation makes sense since it allows for the efficiencies of markets whether it be support or management.
 
Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

Now that the World Cup is over. I can go back to bashing City for all of their money getting them a lousy Europa League spot

Yes, because finishing in our highest league position in many many many years, and making a Cup semi to boot is a terrible terrible failure.:rolleyes:
 
Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

A couple of things after talking about the MLS after the World Cup with a couple of friends who are lot more soccer savvy than myself.

The MLS schedule is good because:

-The off season allows some of the better players to travel to more prestigious leagues ala Landon to showcase their talents.

-Having a summer schedule permits foreign teams from coming over and playing exhibitions. Displaying teams, stadiums, fans, etc of the MLS could undoubtedly lead to players looking more favorably at playing in America.

-Unlike European teams, the MLS would have to compete with the NFL, NBA, NCAA and NHL for fans if there were a more typical football schedule.

The more interesting part of the conversation to me was does the North American soccer system need to be more centralized? As in do developmental leagues have the resources available to allow for a promotion/demotion system similar to the EPL?

When the MLS grows enough could perhaps the top-2 in the USL be promoted and the bottom-2 in the MLS be demoted? Or is the commitment by cities and teams to build soccer-specific stadiums too integral on top division play to allow for demotion?

Or could it be seen as an incentive for smaller market teams to invest more into the teams knowing that with good play they are able to reach the MLS?

With the US being practically the only nation that calls footballl soccer, does the league need to be rebranded? Major League Soccer definitely takes off of American sports model of naming, but to market the league better internationally would a top league named something like American Football Association? Or rather does actual football or the lack of international interest make this difficult?


MLS is in a catch-22 that has no short or medium term solution.

They will never get more attention nationally or internationally without getting considerably higher quality players and they won't be able to get higher quality players without getting considerably more attention [i.e. money] nationally and internationally.

In the meantime, it is what it is and will likely stay that way for awhile unless they continue expanding at an unsustainable rate and go bankrupt in the next ten years with 32 franchises. [sound familiar?]
 
Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

I don't know if promotion/relegation will ever happen in the US, it's just something that doesn't happen here. I know, I know, ignorant Americans who can't change, but it just seems so ingrained in the US that there's the big boy league, and all the smaller league teams are affiliated with teams in that league.
 
Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

Liverpool finished 7th the year I started to follow them for the 98-99 season. I only followed them for Michael Owen, not for glory.
Oh wow, 7th, you're really scraping the bottom of the barrel with that one. And 3rd, 4th, and 3rd the three years before that. (And they'd, you know, won the most titles of any English team.) It must've been just like following S****horpe United.
And Hodgson is a good manager and even if Liverpool had finished in the top 4, I believe Rafa needed to go as he had lost the locker room.
And yeah, about that, maybe you should stop whining about how much money your team has to spend when they just poached a manager from a team that actually doesn't have enough money to contend for the league title, and when they're consistently in the top five in player salaries.
 
Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

Oh wow, 7th, you're really scraping the bottom of the barrel with that one. And 3rd, 4th, and 3rd the three years before that. (And they'd, you know, won the most titles of any English team.) It must've been just like following S****horpe United.And yeah, about that, maybe you should stop whining about how much money your team has to spend when they just poached a manager from a team that actually doesn't have enough money to contend for the league title, and when they're consistently in the top five in player salaries.

Link on player salaries? I do know that Liverpool has I believe spent 2 million dollars more than they've sold on player acquisitions in I believe the last 5 years...something ridiculous like that. I bet Fulham has spent more.
 
Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

Promotion and relegation won't work (or won't happen) for two reasons:

1) The franchise system. Owners of a franchise, in effect, own part of the league. A Pro/Rel system would ask those owners to willingly put their clubs in a position where they can lose that. Because what happens to them if they lose out, and suddenly MLS decides to cancel the experiment? What do they stand to lose if they fall out and it takes a few years to get back in a market where there are already 4 strong professional leagues in other sports? ARe they going to do that just so they can fit in internationally?

2) America's a huge country. How would lower leagues function? USL works because it is largely regionalized (see also: minor league baseball and hockey). Can the US support a second or third tier soccer league that can potentially stretch from Vancouver to Puerto Rico?
 
Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

A couple of things after talking about the MLS after the World Cup with a couple of friends who are lot more soccer savvy than myself.

The MLS schedule is good because:

-The off season allows some of the better players to travel to more prestigious leagues ala Landon to showcase their talents.

-Having a summer schedule permits foreign teams from coming over and playing exhibitions. Displaying teams, stadiums, fans, etc of the MLS could undoubtedly lead to players looking more favorably at playing in America.

-Unlike European teams, the MLS would have to compete with the NFL, NBA, NCAA and NHL for fans if there were a more typical football schedule.

Yes, playing in the summer is the right time to do it in the US.

The more interesting part of the conversation to me was does the North American soccer system need to be more centralized? As in do developmental leagues have the resources available to allow for a promotion/demotion system similar to the EPL?

When the MLS grows enough could perhaps the top-2 in the USL be promoted and the bottom-2 in the MLS be demoted? Or is the commitment by cities and teams to build soccer-specific stadiums too integral on top division play to allow for demotion?

Or could it be seen as an incentive for smaller market teams to invest more into the teams knowing that with good play they are able to reach the MLS?

With the US being practically the only nation that calls footballl soccer, does the league need to be rebranded? Major League Soccer definitely takes off of American sports model of naming, but to market the league better internationally would a top league named something like American Football Association? Or rather does actual football or the lack of international interest make this difficult?

Promotion and Relegation will never happen anytime in the foreseable future.

And the name 'Major League Soccer' isn't great, but the problem with it isn't the term for the sport. We call it soccer here, that's just the way it is. Calling it football would only confuse people more and sure wouldn't bring too many new fans.

My biggest complaint is with the way people use MLS as an acronym - particularly when they say/write "The MLS." Think about it.

MLS is in a catch-22 that has no short or medium term solution.

They will never get more attention nationally or internationally without getting considerably higher quality players and they won't be able to get higher quality players without getting considerably more attention [i.e. money] nationally and internationally.

In the meantime, it is what it is and will likely stay that way for awhile unless they continue expanding at an unsustainable rate and go bankrupt in the next ten years with 32 franchises. [sound familiar?]

There's nothing unsustainable about MLS expansion - the league has costs controlled and is extremely stable. Combine that with their partnership with the USSF through SUM, and they've got a great foothold into all levels of soccer here in the US.

If anything, expansion makes for stronger teams. You never get a second chance to make a first impression - the success of Seattle, Toronto, and now Philadelphia in filling stadiums shows that the league has learned a great many lessons.

I don't know if promotion/relegation will ever happen in the US, it's just something that doesn't happen here. I know, I know, ignorant Americans who can't change, but it just seems so ingrained in the US that there's the big boy league, and all the smaller league teams are affiliated with teams in that league.

It's not the culture that's the problem - promotion and relegation (in the truest sense) requires a completely different financial structure for the league. MLS (and all of the other US/Canadian leagues) is not set up for it.

More over, it's a solution looking for a problem. Pro/rel solves the issue of too many teams trying to sort themselves into leagues and levels of play. USL is falling apart at the seams. This is not a problem American soccer has to deal with.

MLS's franchise and single entity structure ensures the league as a whole is stronger than any one team. That enabled the league to survive the 2001 recession where it lost 2 teams. The structure isn't changing anytime soon.
 
Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

On the subject of promotion and relegation, I'd highly recommend Wikipedia's summary of how both soccer and baseball's governing bodies evolved in England and the US, respectively.

Geography, professionalism, and monopoly all factor in.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Promotion_and_relegation#Historical_comparisons

Those factors (and how deeply ingrained some of them are, like professionalism and the association of sports and education in the US) make any substantive change for MLS highly unlikely.
 
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