World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

[BoomGoestheDynamite]

Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

I'll admit that I watched at most an hour of World Cup, and that included the last half hour or so of today's game.

That being said, during the highlights of today's game, on Sportscenter, during one of the Netherlands' chances at a goal, there was a guy going on a 1-on-2, and he was harassed, although I don't think really fouled, and the Monday Morning QB's were asking themselves (paraphrased, although not by much):

MMQB1: He made a great effort, but do you think he should have gone down?
MMQB2: Yes, I think he should have, and get that red card.
MMQB1: I agree, but outstanding effort to keep his feet anyway.

That right there tells you all you need to know about this sport. That's *ing bull*. Contemplating whether or not to take a dive, so to speak, to draw a penalty? Embarrassing.

Yeah that ain't a dive. Robben was fouled twice on that play.

 

[The Rube]

Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

He was being fouled, the ref let him play advantage. If he would have gone down, he would have lost his breakaway chance but gained a free kick.

Think of it like a delayed penalty on a breakaway in hockey.

Forgive me for my distinction here, but there's a difference between going down when fouled and diving.

Ok, I guess I'm looking at the end result, and seeing a good oppportunity at a legit shot, which he missed, whereas he coulda gotten a freebie. From the physical play that I saw, was where I based my decision. It's just hard to fathom a supposed informed commentator (snce we all know that some commentators are know-nothings and some are great) recommend going down to draw a penalty, when the guy had a great opportunity to score anyway.

 

[jmh]

Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

Why is it that every picture of the celebration shows Puyol front and center?

Because he's AWESOME! He's Captain Caveman!

I didn't see it mentioned upthread, but the shirt Iniesta showed after he scored said "Dani Jarque Siempre Con Nosotros" or "Dani Jarque Always With Us" - a tribute to the late Espanyol captain Daniel Jarque, who passed away during preseason training last August and was reportedly a close friend of Iniesta.

 

[The Rube]

Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

Because he's AWESOME! He's Captain Caveman!

I didn't see it mentioned upthread, but the shirt Iniesta showed after he scored said "Dani Jarque Siempre Con Nosotros" or "Dani Jarque Always With Us" - a tribute to the late Espanyol captain Daniel Jarque, who passed away during preseason training last August and was reportedly a close friend of Iniesta.

I read about that. Way cool.

 

[J.D.]

Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

The refs are so bad, a lot of players feel the need to go to ground easily to get the call they deserve.

Some refs believe if you don't go down, its not a foul.

This mentality is so out of whack. Play the game and stay on your feet at all costs. It'd be nice if the players didn't make it look like WWE out there. It just makes it harder for the refs.

Robben's incessant crying and falling to the ground when there's minimal contact is maddening. That's not what the game should be about.

Webb really didn't have a chance in this game. You'd think a few early yellow cards would settle the game down, but the players ultimately decide how they're gonna play it.

First half was incredibly boring, so at least the play picked up a little from there. Not a great final, but not the worst. Bottom line for me is, there's no doubt the best team won the tournament (sorry New Zealand).

Changes I'd want to see:

1. Goal line technology
2. More lenient accumulation penalties
3. Offsides--if any part of the attacking player is level, he's not offsides. As some have pointed out, this makes it much more clear and easy to call.
4. Bigger emphasis on ridding the game of the diving/acting. If only lazy slide tackling wasn't allowed...

 

[joegrav]

Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

One last insomnia-riddled post-World Cup takeaway:

The battle between the US and Mexico for CONCACAF supremacy over the next four years is going to be incredibly entertaining. Both teams are not only improving in terms of young talent coming up, they're also both beginning to play more attractive styles.

Mexico's upcoming generation seems to have a lot more talent than the US's, but we'll see if we continue to have the upper hand.

2011 Gold Cup is going to be a very serious clash.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

I don't think cutting it down to 10 v. 10 really would help anything. Who do you think coaches would take out of their starting lineup? (Hint: It's not a defender). So instead of 4-4-2s, we would see 4-4-1s, and the game would be just as defensive I think. Sure, there would be more space on the field to operate, but I don't know how much that would really affect things.

I think the game is fine, just needs officials to enforce the rules as they are written. This dour defensive shift in tactics is just a trend, eventually it will fade away. (I hope.)

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

I just finally got around to seeing the rest of the match. What a disgrace. The official lost control of the game and the cards were the result. Terrible.

 

[JF_Gophers]

Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

I just finally got around to seeing the rest of the match. What a disgrace. The official lost control of the game and the cards were the result. Terrible.

I didn't mind the cards since he did a good job of not sending anyone off until late in the game. Although the chest kung fu kick deserved a red.

I didn't want the game decided on cards and for the most part it wasn't.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

I didn't mind the cards since he did a good job of not sending anyone off until late in the game. Although the chest kung fu kick deserved a red.

I didn't want the game decided on cards and for the most part it wasn't.

True, but it seemed like half the cards he gave out were on weak-*** plays and other times he wouldn't give a yellow when it was more than deserved.

If you receive a yellow, you play different. Far more cautious. That can definitely affect the outcome of the game. Especially when there are 13 given over a single game. That's just ridiculous.

Edit: Yes, that kung-fu kick probably should have been a send-off. But whatever. I'm glad the cup is over. It just added to my stress level.

 

[JF_Gophers]

Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

True, but it seemed like half the cards he gave out were on weak-*** plays and other times he wouldn't give a yellow when it was more than deserved.

If you receive a yellow, you play different. Far more cautious. That can definitely affect the outcome of the game. Especially when there are 13 given over a single game. That's just ridiculous.

A lot more cards probably were deserved. The Netherlands decided to play rough to try and break up Spain's passing. When you do that you risk taking a lot of fouls/cards.

The game dictated the cards. not vice-versa.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

1. Uruguay. Fun to watch. I love Suarez and Forlan, and having Uruguay succeed internationally feels right, like Navy becoming relevant in football again. I know who to root for in Copa America now w/ US not going.

Yes, this. If Uruguay doesn't win Most Entertaining Team it will be a crock.

In other news:

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-new...-bid-ethics-to-be-cleared-20100711-105ji.html

Football Federation Australia expects FIFA to clear it of allegations of offering illegal gifts and inducements in the bid to host the 2022 World Cup.

FFA chairman Frank Lowy has told The Associated Press he believes FIFA's ethics committee could publish its favourable report "within days."

Lowy says the episode has done the bid no credit, but insists FFA broke no rules.

FIFA started investigating last month after The Age newspaper reported that FIFA executive members who choose World Cup hosts were given jewellery and offered travel expenses.

Australia's government cleared the federation of further allegations about accounting practices and use of taxpayer funds.

The federation is suing the newspaper for defamation.

If this could continue for a long time - say, until December - it could be a big boost to the US bid.

 

[JohnN]

Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

A final World Cup comment, perhaps.

I think for the first time the ball really was an issue. A lot of pretty talented players simply could not get it up and down. This contributed to the boring nature of the tournament. The only defense anyone seemed to have for the ball was that it was perfectly round. Well, great. It was a perfectly round and boring ball. Sure, in the end the select few like Forlan could do wonders with it, but if guys like Ronaldo, Gerrard and Kaka can't control a ball, you're going to end up with a pretty boring product.



The US plays Brazil on August 10th and then Poland during the early October window. What do people think? Guys like Howard, Bocanegra and Cherundolo were some of our best World Cup players. Do they get a swan song or is it time to say thank you to everyone who won't be around in 2014 and go with the younger guys?

 

[pirate]

Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

This is so painfully obvious that it will never happen. The linesman would have so much of an easier time. Additionally I'd prefer mandatory subbing for those who can't answer a referees ten count when faking their injury.

Watching the guys cry every time someone stepped near them was just embarrassing.

I liked the replay that showed the guy rolling on the ground holding his foot actually stepped on the other guy. So, we have the 'minor contact death roll', the 'imagined contact shot by a sniper' and now the 'step on the other guy, reverse foul'. What is the injury, he hurt the bottom of my foot by putting his foot in the way?

The evolution of soccer???

 

[Kepler]

Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

I liked the replay that showed the guy rolling on the ground holding his foot actually stepped on the other guy. So, we have the 'minor contact death roll', the 'imagined contact shot by a sniper' and now the 'step on the other guy, reverse foul'. What is the injury, he hurt the bottom of my foot by putting his foot in the way?

The evolution of soccer???

There's also the 'neck-twisting recoil and hands clapped over ears in agony from the breeze of other guy's head missing yours by only 9 inches.'

 

[MountieBoyOz]

Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

Germany should win Most Entertaining Team. Uruguay did have that 0-0 draw against Irel... check that France.

 

[blockski]

Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

A final World Cup comment, perhaps.

I think for the first time the ball really was an issue. A lot of pretty talented players simply could not get it up and down. This contributed to the boring nature of the tournament. The only defense anyone seemed to have for the ball was that it was perfectly round. Well, great. It was a perfectly round and boring ball. Sure, in the end the select few like Forlan could do wonders with it, but if guys like Ronaldo, Gerrard and Kaka can't control a ball, you're going to end up with a pretty boring product.



The US plays Brazil on August 10th and then Poland during the early October window. What do people think? Guys like Howard, Bocanegra and Cherundolo were some of our best World Cup players. Do they get a swan song or is it time to say thank you to everyone who won't be around in 2014 and go with the younger guys?

Boring nature of the tournament?

This tournament was great.

 

[Badger Abroad]

Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

I don't think cutting it down to 10 v. 10 really would help anything. Who do you think coaches would take out of their starting lineup? (Hint: It's not a defender). So instead of 4-4-2s, we would see 4-4-1s, and the game would be just as defensive I think. Sure, there would be more space on the field to operate, but I don't know how much that would really affect things.

I think the game is fine, just needs officials to enforce the rules as they are written. This dour defensive shift in tactics is just a trend, eventually it will fade away. (I hope.)

Just an idea, and I haven't thought through the ramifications, but why shouldn't the offsides rule go the way of the two line pass. Offsides compresses the field, leaving less room to operate and it also has proven to be way too hard to officiate. The beginning of the final showed how crowded midfield became when both defensive lines moved forward.

I'm sure the rule will never be removed, but what besides tradition are the reasons for the rule?

 

[jmh]

Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

One last insomnia-riddled post-World Cup takeaway:

The battle between the US and Mexico for CONCACAF supremacy over the next four years is going to be incredibly entertaining. Both teams are not only improving in terms of young talent coming up, they're also both beginning to play more attractive styles.

Mexico's upcoming generation seems to have a lot more talent than the US's, but we'll see if we continue to have the upper hand.

2011 Gold Cup is going to be a very serious clash.

I'm also looking forward to this. Mexico has some real high-end talent coming through the system (so to speak) in Guardado and Dos Santos and Vela and Ochoa. On the other hand, I thought Bradley (Michael, that is) stood out big time this tournament, and Edu looked good when he had the chance, and I'm going to choose to continue to believe that Altidore will evolve into the player we all hope he will be. You're right, should be interesting.

The game dictated the cards. not vice-versa.

Agreed. Of all the cards, maybe two of them (Ramos, Heitinga's first one) were questionable. By and large they were heartily deserved.

Boring nature of the tournament?

This tournament was great.

I thought so too. Some great matches, albeit more controversy than FIFA would've liked what with phantom disallowed goals and the Suarez handball.

 

[JF_Gophers]

Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

I'm sure the rule will never be removed, but what besides tradition are the reasons for the rule?

Two line pass and offsides aren't exactly the same thing. Since hockey still has offsides.

Also an interesting variation of the offsides rule came up in the final. If you are in your own half of the field you are not offsides even if two players are not keeping you onside in the normal sense of the rule.

ETA: I should add the original rule was 3 men had to be beyond you to keep a player onsides. They went to 2 to try and improve offense.