World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

[J.D.]

Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

The game dictated the cards. not vice-versa.

Completely agree. The ref tried taking control with early cards, but the players ultimately decided that's how they wanted to play. Too easy to blame the ref here. The players were to blame.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

Two line pass and offsides aren't exactly the same thing. Since hockey still has offsides.

Yes, but the soccer "offsides" rule is a whole lot more like hockey's ex-two-line-pass rule: intended to prevent long headman passes and cherrypicking. If soccer ever institutes a rule where the ball has to precede the offense into the penalty box, you may have a point...

Just trying to work out in my head what would happen to soccer if you did get rid of offside. Obviously, the primary effect is that the offense could let players linger upfield. The defense would have to counter that by marking, so it would become the offense who dictates their location, rather than the other way around. The midfield would have to shift backwards as well, to support the deeper defense and provide for outlet passes. This would allow the offense to move even more players upfield, pinning the defense deep in its own zone. It would therefore be more difficult for the defense to get the ball back upfield. Of course, once they did then THEY would become the new offense, pinning the other team in its end.

I think the net result would be fewer possession changes with longer extended possessions in each defensive third, which means much less midfield play in general. In short, it would become more like lacrosse (or basketball) - switching frantically back and forth between two half-court offenses with nothing much happening at midfield. Me no likey.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

Germany should win Most Entertaining Team. Uruguay did have that 0-0 draw against Irel... check that France.

Meh. Germany lost to Serbia. I put Germany as the only other team anywhere close to Uruguay in the Most Entertaining category.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

Completely agree. The ref tried taking control with early cards, but the players ultimately decided that's how they wanted to play. Too easy to blame the ref here. The players were to blame.

I agree, except that I felt the ref was a little too reluctant to hand out reds later in the game. Once half the players on the field had a yellow, his only option was the "nuclear" one. I felt like there were several plays that could have warranted cards late in the 2nd half (especially considering how the game had been called up to that point) but the ref seemed to be going out of his way to justify not giving them.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

The US plays Brazil on August 10th and then Poland during the early October window. What do people think? Guys like Howard, Bocanegra and Cherundolo were some of our best World Cup players. Do they get a swan song or is it time to say thank you to everyone who won't be around in 2014 and go with the younger guys?

Actually, the only player that was on this squad who is pretty much guaranteed not to be around in 2014 is Marcus Hahnemann, and only because he's age prohibitive at 38 (although his USMNT history is fairly interesting - he was capped in 1994 and then not again until 2003 when he started pwning at Reading). Now, that's not to say that they'll all be back. I doubt we'll see more than a handful of the older guys on this team, but some of them, if they're still in good shape, could still be helpful through 2014.

GK - We're pretty deep here, but Howard and Guzan are the ones to stick with as the top guys moving forward. The question here is whether you start grooming Guzan (who's 25) to be the man in 2014 or whether you stick with Howard as long as he's holding onto the top spot. Guzan is, ironically, being somewhat hindered by an American, Brad Friedel, being ahead of him on the depth chart at Aston Villa.

D - Not sure DeMerit is going to be in the fold much longer, but I can see Cherundolo and Bocanegra hanging around for a few more years at least, if not into Brazil. We need some serious development in the back - I wouldn't mind seeing Edgar Castillo and Omar Gonzalez get a little more time with the USMNT. Gooch had a terrible World Cup but he was still in recovery and had zero time in the first squad for Milan - we're lucky he was even fit enough to be on the roster, but he'll be a rock moving forward, I think.

M - Very impressed with Bradley, Feilhaber, and Torres right now, and I think we can count on seeing Donovan, Dempsey, and Edu through the next cycle as well. I feel like we're on the cusp of having a really exceptional midfield with guys like Sacha Kljestan, Robbie Rogers, and Dax McCarty ready to develop. Plus Freddy Adu is there if he ever regains the promise he had when he was a prodigy - he's only 20. Not quite ready to throw Ricardo Clark on the scrap heap just yet, he's got potential but he probably shouldn't have been on this squad, let alone starting in the Round of 16.

F - I said it after all four games in this World Cup: Brian Ching should have been on this squad, but moving forward he's not a long term option. I also wanted to see more Edson Buddle during the tournament but he's probably not a long term answer either - he might be able to stick around for a few years. Hopefully, Altidore and Davies can develop into rock star strikers for this team, but I'd like to see more of Gomez in the next couple of years at least based solely on his performance with Pachuca.

 

[LynahFan]

Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

I'm hoping NONE of these guys are on the team next time, because we've found so many players who are just that much better!

(oh, and world peace)

 

[Puck Swami]

Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

Anyone know where countries display their World Cup trophies? Capital buildings? National musuems?

The trophy has an interesting history of where it's been stored....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_World_Cup_Trophy

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

Edson Buddle... weren't they just tyring to capture lightning in a bottle with him? He's done very well for the Galaxy this year, but its not like he's had much big time experience. How many caps did he even have going into 2010?

Meanwhile, Paul retires on top.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

True, but it seemed like half the cards he gave out were on weak-*** plays and other times he wouldn't give a yellow when it was more than deserved.

I'm not sure which ones were weak-***, but sometimes those types of fouls do merit yellow cards. For instance, Capdevila's challenge in the second half. He barely clipped the Dutch guy's heels, but it was enough to prevent a good chance, so it's a yellow.

The US plays Brazil on August 10th and then Poland during the early October window. What do people think? Guys like Howard, Bocanegra and Cherundolo were some of our best World Cup players. Do they get a swan song or is it time to say thank you to everyone who won't be around in 2014 and go with the younger guys?

The team selection for the Brazil friendly will be interesting. The EPL starts on the 14th, so I wonder if Bob ( or whoever replaces him) will want to call in Holden, Howard, and any other guys who earn EPL transfers over the summer (Bradley, Donovan, Altidore?). I'd honestly rather have them stay in England if it assures them of a starting role on the weekend, not sure that's fair to fans who buy tickets though. It's a tough one.

 

[blockski]

Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

Yes, but the soccer "offsides" rule is a whole lot more like hockey's ex-two-line-pass rule: intended to prevent long headman passes and cherrypicking. If soccer ever institutes a rule where the ball has to precede the offense into the penalty box, you may have a point...

Just trying to work out in my head what would happen to soccer if you did get rid of offside. Obviously, the primary effect is that the offense could let players linger upfield. The defense would have to counter that by marking, so it would become the offense who dictates their location, rather than the other way around. The midfield would have to shift backwards as well, to support the deeper defense and provide for outlet passes. This would allow the offense to move even more players upfield, pinning the defense deep in its own zone. It would therefore be more difficult for the defense to get the ball back upfield. Of course, once they did then THEY would become the new offense, pinning the other team in its end.

I think the net result would be fewer possession changes with longer extended possessions in each defensive third, which means much less midfield play in general. In short, it would become more like lacrosse (or basketball) - switching frantically back and forth between two half-court offenses with nothing much happening at midfield. Me no likey.

My recollection is that in the limited experiments without offside, this is exactly what happened. The play essentially vacated the midfield. Possession was entirely defensive and offense consisted of nothing but long balls forward.

I think changes to offside should just be in interpretation. A simple one would be to allow a player to be 'in contact' with the defender to be onside, rather than fully even. i.e. there has to be space between the defender and the attacking player for him to be offside.

That, and perhaps no offside within the last 18 yards? It does seem somewhat absurd that a tap-in goal on a broken defensive clearance can be called offside.

 

[Hammer]

Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

I liked the replay that showed the guy rolling on the ground holding his foot actually stepped on the other guy. So, we have the 'minor contact death roll', the 'imagined contact shot by a sniper' and now the 'step on the other guy, reverse foul'. What is the injury, he hurt the bottom of my foot by putting his foot in the way?

The evolution of soccer???

Don't forget Ghana's "I'm in the penalty box and I'm dead" against USA in extra time.

 

[joegrav]

Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

I think the game is fine, just needs officials to enforce the rules as they are written. This dour defensive shift in tactics is just a trend, eventually it will fade away. (I hope.)

Maybe. Pretty much all sports are copycat sports. All it will take is one team to come out playing a 3-4-3 and fly around, and use those tactics to win Euro 2012, the Champions League, or the next World Cup.

I bet Brazil will be a free-flowing attacking team by 2014... if they're not, their fans will riot. Haha

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

Don't forget Ghana's "I'm in the penalty box and I'm dead" against USA in extra time.

Don't know why, but this reminds me of the "bring out the dead" scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

 

[Hammer]

Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

The guy acted like he was in a coffin and rigor mortis had set it, with his arms sticking straight up. It was ridiculous.

 

[WeWantMore]

Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

Spanish journalists are reporting that De Jong's challenge on Alonso yesterday broke Alonso's ribs.

That'll teach him to put his chest out there like that.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

Spanish journalists are reporting that De Jong's challenge on Alonso yesterday broke Alonso's ribs.

That'll teach him to put his chest out there like that.

How long after watching that did you stop and think "oh crap, I'm going to have to defend this guy on USCHO..."?

 

[Terrierbyassociation]

Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

Alonso was a warrior. Played 86 minutes.

 

[Badger Abroad]

Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

Yes, but the soccer "offsides" rule is a whole lot more like hockey's ex-two-line-pass rule: intended to prevent long headman passes and cherrypicking. If soccer ever institutes a rule where the ball has to precede the offense into the penalty box, you may have a point...

Just trying to work out in my head what would happen to soccer if you did get rid of offside. Obviously, the primary effect is that the offense could let players linger upfield. The defense would have to counter that by marking, so it would become the offense who dictates their location, rather than the other way around. The midfield would have to shift backwards as well, to support the deeper defense and provide for outlet passes. This would allow the offense to move even more players upfield, pinning the defense deep in its own zone. It would therefore be more difficult for the defense to get the ball back upfield. Of course, once they did then THEY would become the new offense, pinning the other team in its end.

I think the net result would be fewer possession changes with longer extended possessions in each defensive third, which means much less midfield play in general. In short, it would become more like lacrosse (or basketball) - switching frantically back and forth between two half-court offenses with nothing much happening at midfield. Me no likey.

Obviously the point of the whole change would be to reduce the play at midfield and increase the time in the offensive/defensive zones. I certainly wouldn't like the play to be "switching frantically back and forth" either, but I don't know whether it would get as bad as lacrosse or basketball. I would think that because in soccer it is inherently harder for the offense to keep control of the ball the result might not be as drastic as you fear. I certainly could be wrong about this and most games are not as congested in the middle as what we saw in Spain-Holland.

Of course the other upside would be that the game would be easier to officiate, because one of the hardest calls to make would be removed, allowing the linesmen to actually pay attention to whether the ball went in the goal.

 

[jerphisch]

Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

In addition to something changing with the offsides rule, soccer needs some sort of back court violation rule like basketball. Every time the ball was sent back to the keeper from mid-field or beyond yesterday I wanted to choke somebody. Once you cross midfield you should be have to continue play with offense in mind.

 

[Kepler]

Re: World Cup Soccer XVII: There can only be ONE!!!11!!!

In addition to something changing with the offsides rule, soccer needs some sort of back court violation rule like basketball. Every time the ball was sent back to the keeper from mid-field or beyond yesterday I wanted to choke somebody. Once you cross midfield you should be have to continue play with offense in mind.

And eliminate offsides entirely.