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Women's DI Rankings/Polls 2013-14

Re: Women's DI Rankings/Polls 2013-14

Did some research on my own and did some number crunching. I was interested to see what the TUC vs teams over .500 records are and then I did the same for TUC vs teams in this weeks top ten. Also through in the Strength of Schedule ranking in there too for good measure. (on a side, I find it interesting that the top 7 teams for SOS are all in the WCHA)

Lastly, the top 3 teams have played each other too which hurts their records a bit more than the other teams.
<p> </p>
<table style="width: 600px;">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td> </td>
<td style="text-align: center;" colspan="5" width="30%"><strong>vs. .500 teams</strong></td>
<td style="text-align: center;" colspan="5" width="30%"><strong>vs USCHO Top 10 (Jan. 20)</strong></td>
<td style="text-align: center;"> </td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="text-align: left;"><strong>Team</strong></td>
<td style="text-align: center;"><strong>GP</strong></td>
<td style="text-align: center;"><strong>W</strong></td>
<td style="text-align: center;"><strong>L</strong></td>
<td style="text-align: center;"><strong>T</strong></td>
<td style="text-align: center;"><strong>PCT</strong></td>
<td style="text-align: center;"><strong>GP</strong></td>
<td style="text-align: center;"><strong>W</strong></td>
<td style="text-align: center;"><strong>L</strong></td>
<td style="text-align: center;"><strong>T</strong></td>
<td style="text-align: center;"><strong>PCT</strong></td>
<td style="text-align: center;"><strong>SOS Rk</strong></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Minnesota</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">8</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">7</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">1</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">0</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.875</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">4</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">3</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">1</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">0</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.750</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">4</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Wisconsin</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">9</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">4</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">3</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.556</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">7</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">3</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">3</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">1</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.500</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>North Dakota</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">10</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">4</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">4</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.500</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">8</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">3</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">4</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">1</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.438</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">1</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Cornell</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">10</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">5</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">3</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.650</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">6</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.500</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">8</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Harvard</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">7</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">5</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">0</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.857</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">6</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">4</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">0</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.833</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">12</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Robert Morris</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">8</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">4</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.625</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">4</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">1</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">1</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.625</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">25</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Clarkson</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">10</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">5</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">4</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">1</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.550</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">5</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">3</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">0</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.400</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">15</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Boston University</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">7</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">3</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">4</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">0</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.429</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">5</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">1</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">4</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">0</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.200</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">18</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Boston College</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">7</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">3</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.429</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">5</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">1</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.500</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">20</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Mercyhurst</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">7</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">3</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.571</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">6</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.500</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">21</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Quinnipiac</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">8</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">3</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">3</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.438</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">6</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">1</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">3</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.333</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">22</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Minnesota Duluth</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">8</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">0</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">6</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.125</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">8</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">0</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">6</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.125</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">6</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Princeton</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">8</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">0</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">6</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.125</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">8</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">0</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">6</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.125</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">17</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Syracuse</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">8</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">1</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">5</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.250</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">5</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">1</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">4</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">0</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.200</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">28</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
 
Last edited:
Re: Women's DI Rankings/Polls 2013-14

HankScorpio said:
Did some research on my own and did some number crunching. I was interested to see what the TUC vs teams over .500 records are and then I did the same for TUC vs teams in this weeks top ten. Also through in the Strength of Schedule ranking in there too for good measure. (on a side, I find it interesting that the top 7 teams for SOS are all in the WCHA)

Lastly, the top 3 teams have played each other too which hurts their records a bit more than the other teams.
<table style="width: 600px;">
<tr>
<td>*</td>
<td style="text-align: center;" colspan="5" width="30%"><strong>vs. .500 teams</strong></td>
<td style="text-align: center;" colspan="5" width="30%"><strong>vs USCHO Top 10 (Jan. 20)</strong></td>
<td style="text-align: center;">*</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="text-align: left;"><strong>Team</strong></td>
<td style="text-align: center;"><strong>GP</strong></td>
<td style="text-align: center;"><strong>W</strong></td>
<td style="text-align: center;"><strong>L</strong></td>
<td style="text-align: center;"><strong>T</strong></td>
<td style="text-align: center;"><strong>PCT</strong></td>
<td style="text-align: center;"><strong>GP</strong></td>
<td style="text-align: center;"><strong>W</strong></td>
<td style="text-align: center;"><strong>L</strong></td>
<td style="text-align: center;"><strong>T</strong></td>
<td style="text-align: center;"><strong>PCT</strong></td>
<td style="text-align: center;"><strong>SOS Rk</strong></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Minnesota</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">8</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">7</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">1</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">0</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.875</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">4</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">3</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">1</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">0</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.750</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">4</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Wisconsin</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">9</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">4</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">3</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.556</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">7</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">3</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">3</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">1</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.500</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>North Dakota</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">10</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">4</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">4</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.500</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">8</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">3</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">4</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">1</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.438</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">1</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Cornell</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">10</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">5</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">3</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.650</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">6</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.500</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">8</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Harvard</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">7</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">5</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">0</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.857</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">6</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">4</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">0</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.833</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">12</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Robert Morris</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">8</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">4</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.625</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">4</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">1</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">1</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.625</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">25</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Clarkson</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">10</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">5</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">4</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">1</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.550</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">5</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">3</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">0</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.400</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">15</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Boston University</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">7</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">3</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">4</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">0</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.429</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">5</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">1</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">4</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">0</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.200</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">18</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Boston College</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">7</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">3</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.429</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">5</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">1</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.500</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">20</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Mercyhurst</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">7</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">3</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.571</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">6</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.500</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">21</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Quinnipiac</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">8</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">3</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">3</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.438</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">6</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">1</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">3</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.333</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">22</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Minnesota Duluth</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">8</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">0</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">6</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.125</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">8</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">0</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">6</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.125</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">6</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Princeton</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">8</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">0</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">6</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.125</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">8</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">0</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">6</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.125</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">17</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Syracuse</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">8</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">1</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">5</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">2</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.250</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">5</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">1</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">4</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">0</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">.200</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">28</td>
</tr>
</table>
Click to expand...

Very interesting. Two quick takeaways:

1 - Harvard should be ranked 2nd behind Minny based on this data.
2 - Top teams play a lot of teams of less than .500. In fact only three teams have played 10 games vs teams over .500, and most teams are at the 20 plus game mark.
 
Last edited:
Re: Women's DI Rankings/Polls 2013-14

OnMAA said:
Very interesting. Two quick takeaways:

1 - Harvard should be ranked 2nd behind Minny based on this data.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. You're repeating one of the fallacies of the Pairwise, namely that every possible set of games against teams over .500 or TUCs are equal. They aren't. North Dakota's 10 games against teams over .500 include two against Minnesota and four against Wisconsin. The ten games in total are a much tougher schedule than the seven games Harvard has played against teams over .500. It's very difficult to tell who should be ranked higher based only upon a presentation like this because there are too many moving parts that need to be constantly compared to each other and change every time you do.

This is why the iterative process of KRACH is so useful. It moves all of those parts and then recalculates. Then it does it again and again until the pieces stop moving.
 
Re: Women's DI Rankings/Polls 2013-14

And for what it's worth, you could run KRACH using only the universe of teams over .500 and the games they have played against each other. Or any other subset of teams you'd like. You'd lose a lot of precision because of the much smaller sample sizes but if those are the games you really care about you can do it.
 
Re: Women's DI Rankings/Polls 2013-14

OnMAA said:
Very interesting. Two quick takeaways:

1 - Harvard should be ranked 2nd behind Minny based on this data.
2 - Top teams play a lot of teams of less than .500. In fact only three teams have played 10 games vs teams over .500, and most teams are at the 20 plus game mark.
Click to expand...

Couple problems with that. While I agree that Harvard has some good wins against top teams, they also have losses to RPI and Yale, not the most impressive, so that would drag them back down a bit. I would be happy with Harvard and Cornell swapping places in rankings.

Also, these 14 teams are the only teams that are currently above .500, so it's really kind of their records against each other. You really need to take in their competition into account. For example, yes Duluth has a 0-6-2 record against .500 teams but six of those games (0-4-2) were against the top-3 ranked teams. While Robert Morris split with BU and Won/Tied against Quinnipiac. North Dakota has had as many games against top-6 opponents as Robert Morris has had against .500+ teams.

Just wanted to provide some numbers to add to the conversation about the rankings. Seems like more and more the pairwise seems to be off in it's own little world. But I know that horse is beyond dead so I won't go there lol.
 
Re: Women's DI Rankings/Polls 2013-14

OnMAA said:
Two quick takeaways:
1 - Harvard should be ranked 2nd behind Minny based on this data.
Click to expand...

Eeyore said:
Not necessarily. You're repeating one of the fallacies of the Pairwise, namely that every possible set of games against teams over .500 or TUCs are equal. They aren't. North Dakota's 10 games against teams over .500 include two against Minnesota and four against Wisconsin. The ten games in total are a much tougher schedule than the seven games Harvard has played against teams over .500. It's very difficult to tell who should be ranked higher based only upon a presentation like this because there are too many moving parts that need to be constantly compared to each other and change every time you do.
Click to expand...

HankScorpio said:
Couple problems with that. While I agree that Harvard has some good wins against top teams, they also have losses to RPI and Yale, not the most impressive, so that would drag them back down a bit. I would be happy with Harvard and Cornell swapping places in rankings.
Click to expand...

My comment was more as a "fun" statement, looking at the data simplistically, rather than an opinion. Agree with both of you that it takes more than just a few numbers/small data sample to make a valuable/meaningful ranking. Fully Agree that Harvard should not be ranked second. Heck, even though they are leading the ECAC right now, I don't think they will be the top ECAC seed when it is all said and done. (Witness I have them ranked lower than most in my ranking for TTT's exercise, based more heavily on recent scores and seeing them live recently).
 
Re: Women's DI Rankings/Polls 2013-14

USA Today/USA Hockey Magazine Women's College Hockey Poll

January 28, 2014

Team Points (First Place Votes) Last Poll Record
1 University of Minnesota 190 (19) 1 24-1-1
2 University of Wisconsin 170 2 21-3-2
3 Harvard University 123 5 16-2-2
4 University of North Dakota 122 4 16-5-3
5 Clarkson University 115 6 19-4-3
6 Cornell University 108 3 14-3-4
7 Boston College 83 8 18-4-3
8 Robert Morris University 73 7 20-4-2
9 Quinnipiac University 34 10 16-4-6
10 Mercyhurst University 26 RV 15-7-3

Others receiving votes: Boston University 1

http://www.uscho.com/rankings/usa-today-womens/
 
Re: Women's DI Rankings/Polls 2013-14

February 10/14

1 Minnesota
2 Wisconsin
3 Cornell
4 North Dakota
5 Clarkson
6 Harvard
7 Boston College
8 Mercyhurst
9 Robert Morris
10 Quinnipiac
 
Re: Women's DI Rankings/Polls 2013-14

USCHO.com Division I Women's Poll
February 17, 2014

Team (First Place Votes)
1 Minnesota (15)
2 Wisconsin
3 Cornell
4 Clarkson
5 Boston College
5 Harvard
7 North Dakota
8 Mercyhurst
9 Quinnipiac
9 Robert Morris

Others receiving votes: Boston University 13, Syracuse 2, Minnesota-Duluth 1, Northeastern 1

http://www.uscho.com/rankings/d-i-womens-poll/
 
Re: Women's DI Rankings/Polls 2013-14

northhockey said:
Exactly! At least UND hasn't lost to Lindenwood
Click to expand...

That might not matter as results against real weak teams get thrown out for RPI purposes. (Have no idea where that line is, but pretty safe bet that Lindenwood would be below it)
 
OnMAA said:
That might not matter as results against real weak teams get thrown out for RPI purposes.
Click to expand...
Not true. Wins that lower the RPI get thrown out. Losses or ties that hurt the RPI are not discarded.
 
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