Wisconsin vs Total Recall

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Left unsaid is the absurdity of voting for judges at all, let alone doing so on a partisan basis.

One could say the same about a unicameral legislature but to each their own. That is Wisconsin's choice and it's really none of your business how they choose to run their government.

 

[unofan]

One could say the same about a unicameral legislature but to each their own. That is Wisconsin's choice and it's really none of your business how they choose to run their government.

Seriously, that's the comment that illicits that response? This entire board has people commenting on 100s of topics that are of no direct concern to them.

It's still an asinine choice. It's like choosing the referees by a vote of the fans.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Seriously, that's the comment that illicits that response? This entire board has people commenting on 100s of topics that are of no direct concern to them.

It's still an asinine choice. It's like choosing the referees by a vote of the fans.

Because all the other possible ways states and the Feds choose judges makes complete sense.

 

[unofan]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Because all the other possible ways states and the Feds choose judges makes complete sense.

At least the feds and the states using the Missouri Plan make the attempt to shield the judiciary from the political process.

While the retention system under the Missouri Plan can be hijacked from time to time, it's still way, way better than direct elections.

 

[Patman]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

At least the feds and the states using the Missouri Plan make the attempt to shield the judiciary from the political process.

While the retention system under the Missouri Plan can be hijacked from time to time, it's still way, way better than direct elections.

The judiciary have often made themselves a key player and advocate in the political process. The only difference is how immediate are they responsible to the whims of the populace.

I will agree that non-voting situations provide for more stability. Judges in those scenarios however operate in relation to the political class in those cases which leads to a cloistered culture in making decisions.

Ideally a judge is the ultimate impartial trying to be the best they can. We know that's not the case so the question is how does one deal with the issue.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

non-voting situations provide for more stability.

depends upon who is picking the judges. it seems to me that having a panel of lawyers pick judges is worse than voting for judges, since the potential conflicts of interests in that situation is very high.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Now that the 2011 reforms have had some time to develop a track record, how are things going in Wisconsin?

The fight over Governor Walker's union reforms and the attempt to recall him and other state legislators seems like ancient history. But they have paid off for Wisconsin taxpayers, saving the state nearly $2 billion since the reforms went into effect. [emphasis added]

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

He deserves a lot of credit, but I think his fellow republicans deserve a significant amount of that credit for keeping him in check- since they've opposed some of his more obnoxious spending ideas.

I didn't think it was possible for a R-majority legislature to be so strongly against a republican governor's plan for private school vouchers, but here we are.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

He deserves a lot of credit, but I think his fellow republicans deserve a significant amount of that credit for keeping him in check- since they've opposed some of his more obnoxious spending ideas.

I didn't think it was possible for a R-majority legislature to be so strongly against a republican governor's plan for private school vouchers, but here we are.

I'm more than a little surprised that so few progressives have said that if we don't rein in public employee payroll expenses soon, we won't have any money left over to do anything else. i've seen a few who acknowledge it forthrightly, surprisingly few. If you want to feed the hungry and clothe the naked and house the homeless, that takes a lot of money, money that easily can be raised bygrandfathering all existing pension participants and converting all new employees to 401k style plans, limiting existing pensions only to base salary, no overtime in the formula, stuff like that. Billions more dollars to finance the progressive agenda, far easier than to try to raise taxes again when everyone's budget is strained. Detroit should be the canary in the coal mine for them.

Most people would go along with a shift in resources, and they'd co-opt the right by getting the money they want without another battle over taxes.

The Democrat who did this in Rhode Island (I can't remember her name or office right now, it was something like Treasurer but that's not it) is now a leading candidate in the primary campaign for governor there, her reforms were very popular. Not quite as extensive as Walker's were, but still quite significant nonetheless.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

even if the operations of many departments of the federal government are suspended, state government employees are still working, right?

One of the more visible manifestations of the government shutdown has been the closing of national parks and memorials. But at least one state governor is pushing back.

Scott Walker, the Republican governor of Wisconsin, directed the state Department of Natural Resources (DNR) to keep open—using whatever legal means possible—several parks which the National Park Service ordered closed.

"We respect the magnitude of the process the federal government has had to undertake to close its properties and certain activities on properties they own and manage," Wisconsin DNR Secretary Cathy Stepp explained in a letter to employees. "However, after close review and legal consult, DNR has clarified areas where the federal procedures are overreaching by ordering the closure of properties where the state has management authority through existing agreements."

Wisconsin's case is essentially that many of the properties ordered to be closed were at least partially funded and operated by the state. One of those properties in question was a Mississippi River boat launch, which the U.S. Fish and Wildlife services barricaded following the shutdown. "In essence, what they were doing is expecting us to enforce closing the Mississippi River," Ms. Stepp told the Hill newspaper. "First of all, how do you even implement something as gigantic as that?" You don't, if you're Wisconsin. And state authorities reopened the launch shortly thereafter.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Scott Walker writing in today's Wall Street Journal:

Exit polls [from the recall election] showed that roughly one in six voters who cast their ballots for me in the June 2012 recall also planned to vote for Mr. Obama a few months later. These Obama-Walker voters constituted about 9% of the electorate.

Polls show that about 11% of the people in Wisconsin today support both me and the president. There are probably no two people in public life who are more philosophically opposite—yet more than one in 10 approve of us both.

There are independent, reform-minded voters in every state. In times of crisis, they want leadership—from either party. What I have learned is that if you step forward and offer a reform agenda that is hopeful and optimistic, they may give you a shot. More important, if you deliver, they will stick with you.

In the states, Republicans focus on improving education, caring for the poor, reforming government, lowering taxes, fixing entitlements, reducing dependency, improving health care, and creating jobs and opportunity for the unemployed.

Republicans need to do more than simply say no to Mr. Obama and his party's big-government agenda. They can offer Americans positive solutions for the nation's challenges—to reduce dependency, and create hope, opportunity, and upward mobility for all citizens. They need to make not just the economic case for conservative reforms but the moral case as well—showing how conservative policies and ideas will make America not only a more prosperous society but a more just and fair one as well.

When I faced the need to reform collective bargaining in the government, I wanted to win, but I wasn't afraid to lose and didn't worry about getting re-elected. That was profoundly liberating.

Too many people in politics today spend their time trying not to lose instead of trying to do the right thing. They would better serve the country by worrying more about the next generation than the next election.

Americans reward leaders who offer positive solutions, keep their promises and get results.

I was particularly struck by these words: "Republicans need to make the moral case for conservative reforms, showing how conservative poicies and ideals will make America a more just and fair society."

I think that is the crux of the Republican problem today, and why so many people who self-identify as "conservative" also reject the Republican "brand." Every conservative I know is a compassionate, caring, generous person who shares his/her time talent and treasure with those less fortunate.

There is something creepy about career politicians using public resources to buy votes. Both parties do it; and most of us, I think, would prefer that neither party did.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Scott Walker writing in today's Wall Street Journal:



I was particularly struck by these words: "Republicans need to make the moral case for conservative reforms, showing how conservative poicies and ideals will make America a more just and fair society."

I think that is the crux of the Republican problem today, and why so many people who self-identify as "conservative" also reject the Republican "brand." Every conservative I know is a compassionate, caring, generous person who shares his/her time talent and treasure with those less fortunate.

There is something creepy about career politicians using public resources to buy votes. Both parties do it; and most of us, I think, would prefer that neither party did.

This part of Scrot's quote is particularly funny...

"In the states, Republicans focus on improving education, caring for the poor, reforming government, lowering taxes, fixing entitlements, reducing dependency, improving health care, and creating jobs and opportunity for the unemployed."


I guess if you say it enough, you hope enough people will believe it to get you (re) elected.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

I have to chuckle any time Walker talks about entitlements. He's made his nut in this state by tackling some big spending issues, and in the long run maybe that's for the best. But between his (thankfully, failed) vision of how private school vouchers would work and his practice of handing out tax credits on a company-by-company basis (ever wonder how you get those deals handed to you from the governor?) as opposed to simply lowering taxes for entrepreneurial businesses... one has to question if he really is against entitlements as much as he is against certain people getting entitlements.

He's capable of talking-the-talk when it comes to politicians needing to do what's right instead of what's convenient. I might even be willing to believe that he's better than the majority of politicians in that regard. But ****ed if he isn't still a politician like the rest of them: willing to throw the moral decision away in a heartbeat so long as he can appease his base.

 

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

I have to chuckle any time Walker talks about entitlements. He's made his nut in this state by tackling some big spending issues, and in the long run maybe that's for the best. But between his (thankfully, failed) vision of how private school vouchers would work and his practice of handing out tax credits on a company-by-company basis (ever wonder how you get those deals handed to you from the governor?) as opposed to simply lowering taxes for entrepreneurial businesses... one has to question if he really is against entitlements as much as he is against certain people getting entitlements.

He's capable of talking-the-talk when it comes to politicians needing to do what's right instead of what's convenient. I might even be willing to believe that he's better than the majority of politicians in that regard. But ****ed if he isn't still a politician like the rest of them: willing to throw the moral decision away in a heartbeat so long as he can appease his base.

Sad but true for most if not all. I'm a big fan of Walker and what he's done but at the same time, I am so sick of tax breaks for specific companies whether is May Clinic forcing MN to invest billions in infrastructure or tax credits from moundsview to get the medtronic expansion. Its not hte way government should work. It should be fair, to keep the playing field level. The problem is without going pretty low across the board you're never going to win battles for jobs compared to other places.

 

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

It sure would be nice to have a governor like Walker instead of the bluthering idiot we have over here.

 

[burd]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

I have to chuckle any time Walker talks about entitlements. He's made his nut in this state by tackling some big spending issues, and in the long run maybe that's for the best. But between his (thankfully, failed) vision of how private school vouchers would work and his practice of handing out tax credits on a company-by-company basis (ever wonder how you get those deals handed to you from the governor?) as opposed to simply lowering taxes for entrepreneurial businesses... one has to question if he really is against entitlements as much as he is against certain people getting entitlements.

He's capable of talking-the-talk when it comes to politicians needing to do what's right instead of what's convenient. I might even be willing to believe that he's better than the majority of politicians in that regard. But ****ed if he isn't still a politician like the rest of them: willing to throw the moral decision away in a heartbeat so long as he can appease his base.

Walker ran on job creation. He made fun of Illinois' business and budget situation. But since he was elected, Wisconsin has lagged behind Minnesota, Michiagan, Iowa, Illinois and the national average in job creation.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

As I said earlier, .....

I think that is the crux of the Republican problem today, and why so many people who self-identify as "conservative" also reject the Republican "brand." Every conservative I know is a compassionate, caring, generous person who shares his/her time talent and treasure with those less fortunate.

There is something creepy about career politicians using public resources to buy votes. Both parties do it; and most of us, I think, would prefer that neither party did.

 

[Foxton]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

As I said earlier, .....

That fresh fish your selling isn't getting many buyers.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Walker ran on job creation. He made fun of Illinois' business and budget situation. But since he was elected, Wisconsin has lagged behind Minnesota, Michiagan, Iowa, Illinois and the national average in job creation.

Oh I agree that he's lagging in that regard. But I will begrudgingly admit that the budget is in better shape (not that it'll stay that way if our economy keeps lagging behind our neighbors).

 

[burd]

Re: Wisconsin vs Total Recall

Oh I agree that he's lagging in that regard. But I will begrudgingly admit that the budget is in better shape (not that it'll stay that way if our economy keeps lagging behind our neighbors).

It is true, isn't it, that success/failure is a complicated and mixed bag and rarely as clear-cut as partisans want to believe. And we all tend to be partisan, despite our own self-perceptions.

All but me.