ExileOnDaytonStreet
Drunkard
Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time
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WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time
- Thread starter Chuck Schwartz
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Chuck Schwartz
New member
Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time
I doubt anyone here is satisfied with mediocre, quite the contrary actually. The constant negativity is taxing however.
I doubt anyone here is satisfied with mediocre, quite the contrary actually. The constant negativity is taxing however.
Chuck Schwartz
New member
Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time
Eaves will change his lines this week. Flipping centers on the top two lines.
Kerdiles-Lee-Barnes
LaBate-Zengerle-Mersch
Eaves will change his lines this week. Flipping centers on the top two lines.
Kerdiles-Lee-Barnes
LaBate-Zengerle-Mersch
solovsfett
Registered User
Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time
well put. I think this season does prove emphatically that the roster is just bereft of talent. Even the guys that were alleged to have skills to elevate are not doing so, rather than elevating they're stagnating or playing pedestrian hockey.
but that's been said already
as to the line changes Chuck mentioned, I like em, Zengerle needs a jump start (a hell of a lot of his points last year seemed to come from working with Schultz, Eaves needs to find another combo for him, maybe this will help) and Kerdiles should get time with other players until he finds linemates that click with his style
well put. I think this season does prove emphatically that the roster is just bereft of talent. Even the guys that were alleged to have skills to elevate are not doing so, rather than elevating they're stagnating or playing pedestrian hockey.
but that's been said already
as to the line changes Chuck mentioned, I like em, Zengerle needs a jump start (a hell of a lot of his points last year seemed to come from working with Schultz, Eaves needs to find another combo for him, maybe this will help) and Kerdiles should get time with other players until he finds linemates that click with his style
Timothy A
Let's go RED!
Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time
It isn't like every time a D gets the puck at the point the defender is automatically in position to block. The faster the puck is moved the more likely the shooing lane is better. A low wrister from the point is less likely to get blocked because the defender doesn't get the slappah wind up time to get into optimal blocking position and the shooter has their head up. My point was to pass twice, get the puck "ahead" of the defenders, and toss it on net.
Has Eaves ever tried the umbrella PP? You create a 2 on 2 in the slot and a 3 on 2 up high. Park 2 F in front of the net, 3 high in an arc, pass, pass, shoot. You've got 2 guys in position to tip or pound the rebound in. If they choose to have only 1 defender in the slot for 2 F's and play 3 on 3 up high, you work the 2 on 1 down low. This is Howie's PP 101.
I see Eaves is flipping Lee and Zengerlee. Gotta try something. I'd kinda like to see Lee centering Mersch and Kerdiles. You are kinda saddling Zengerlee with not much help, but Kerdiles makes a lot of subtle plays that Lee and Mersch can take advantage of.
It isn't like every time a D gets the puck at the point the defender is automatically in position to block. The faster the puck is moved the more likely the shooing lane is better. A low wrister from the point is less likely to get blocked because the defender doesn't get the slappah wind up time to get into optimal blocking position and the shooter has their head up. My point was to pass twice, get the puck "ahead" of the defenders, and toss it on net.
Has Eaves ever tried the umbrella PP? You create a 2 on 2 in the slot and a 3 on 2 up high. Park 2 F in front of the net, 3 high in an arc, pass, pass, shoot. You've got 2 guys in position to tip or pound the rebound in. If they choose to have only 1 defender in the slot for 2 F's and play 3 on 3 up high, you work the 2 on 1 down low. This is Howie's PP 101.
I see Eaves is flipping Lee and Zengerlee. Gotta try something. I'd kinda like to see Lee centering Mersch and Kerdiles. You are kinda saddling Zengerlee with not much help, but Kerdiles makes a lot of subtle plays that Lee and Mersch can take advantage of.
G
Gurtholfin
Guest
Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time
As are the party line talking points saying that there is no fire, when in fact there is.
Hopefully the new line combos wake people up.
As are the party line talking points saying that there is no fire, when in fact there is.
Hopefully the new line combos wake people up.
Almington
Blood Boiling with Rage and Hate
The talent level of the players isn't the problem, it is the rigid system that they are forced to play in. Given that players produce before getting to UW and produce after playing at UW, but somehow at UW they are bereft of talent doesn't make any sense, nor the fact that even as the players change, the new players have the same low talent that the departing players did.
solovsfett
Registered User
Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time
I don't know all of their pre-UW stats but off the top of my head I'm thinking of guys like littlex2, dahl, meuer, barnes, labate, lee (although this year he's put up more points than I'd expected), navin, woods. Navin I know had a ton of points prior to UW so I don't know what's up with him, but the rest? again, I don't recall their stats prior to college
in regard to the players being forced to play a rigid system I 100% agree. in Eaves' first season I remember someone coming on this board after a game against I think Maine, and stated that the UW players were skating like robots. I think they still do. they've been sapped of a lot of creativity from what I've been seeing.
10 years is about 6 years more than enough time to get your players here and create your atmosphere with the team and expectations and systems. For a while I thought, wait until Eaves can bring in the Parise's and the types he won Gold with @ WJC. as it turns out, those guys either don't want to play here (save Parise who actually would have) or Eaves is just whiffing on them.
****...it's going to be a loooooooong time before Dvorak and Malone are here and even then they'd better have a **** good supporting cast
I don't know all of their pre-UW stats but off the top of my head I'm thinking of guys like littlex2, dahl, meuer, barnes, labate, lee (although this year he's put up more points than I'd expected), navin, woods. Navin I know had a ton of points prior to UW so I don't know what's up with him, but the rest? again, I don't recall their stats prior to college
in regard to the players being forced to play a rigid system I 100% agree. in Eaves' first season I remember someone coming on this board after a game against I think Maine, and stated that the UW players were skating like robots. I think they still do. they've been sapped of a lot of creativity from what I've been seeing.
10 years is about 6 years more than enough time to get your players here and create your atmosphere with the team and expectations and systems. For a while I thought, wait until Eaves can bring in the Parise's and the types he won Gold with @ WJC. as it turns out, those guys either don't want to play here (save Parise who actually would have) or Eaves is just whiffing on them.
****...it's going to be a loooooooong time before Dvorak and Malone are here and even then they'd better have a **** good supporting cast
SatNightFever
New member
Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time
Been a long time since I have been on the USCHO boards...would like to hear what you guys have to say....
I was always a big supporter of Eaves, but I have to agree with the majority (or so it seems) here that believe he is a significant portion of the problem. My question is two fold....1 - will the B10HC be a big enough draw for recruits and a "potential" new coach? I say probably......And 2 - who would be a viable target that you would like to see the Badgers go after if Eaves ever leaves/is not retained.
Thanks all for their thoughts....
Been a long time since I have been on the USCHO boards...would like to hear what you guys have to say....
I was always a big supporter of Eaves, but I have to agree with the majority (or so it seems) here that believe he is a significant portion of the problem. My question is two fold....1 - will the B10HC be a big enough draw for recruits and a "potential" new coach? I say probably......And 2 - who would be a viable target that you would like to see the Badgers go after if Eaves ever leaves/is not retained.
Thanks all for their thoughts....
Almington
Blood Boiling with Rage and Hate
Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time
Season before coming to UW:
Derek Lee 21-56-77 followed by 12-47-59 in the BCHL.
Jefferson Dahl 16-24-40 in 56 games USHL
Tyler Barnes 35-33-68 in 60 games USHL
Brendan Woods 14-12-26 in 56 games USHL
Joesph Labate came direct from MN HS (Burnsville IIRC) and Brad Navin Cam in drectly from WI HS, both would likely have benefited from some USHL seasoning for a season before attending UW.
Ryan Little was recruited as a Defenseman and only converted to a forward while at UW,
Sean Little and Kegan Meuer did not have great offensive numbers, but they are also not playing on the top 2 lines and were NEVER expected to.
I don't know where you think all of these Parise type players are hiding because their are zero top end guys that the staff isn't in contact with. With only 18 scholarships to go around between ~25 players I don't know how much better Eaves can do on the recruiting front, it isn't as if UW is being blown out on the recruiting front, they win as much as to be expected when they go head to head with the UND, UMN, UMI, DU, BU and BC for the top end players. To believe that UW will win every recruiting battle is as absurd as believing that UW will win every game.
Eaves recruited teams have never lacked for talent, experience and cohesion sure, but never talent. The issue has not been getting quality talent to campus with Eaves, but what happens to that talent once it is on campus.
The BTHC is going to have zero impact on recruiting going forward regardless of who the coach is, what conference UW in changes nothing for UW.
Season before coming to UW:
Derek Lee 21-56-77 followed by 12-47-59 in the BCHL.
Jefferson Dahl 16-24-40 in 56 games USHL
Tyler Barnes 35-33-68 in 60 games USHL
Brendan Woods 14-12-26 in 56 games USHL
Joesph Labate came direct from MN HS (Burnsville IIRC) and Brad Navin Cam in drectly from WI HS, both would likely have benefited from some USHL seasoning for a season before attending UW.
Ryan Little was recruited as a Defenseman and only converted to a forward while at UW,
Sean Little and Kegan Meuer did not have great offensive numbers, but they are also not playing on the top 2 lines and were NEVER expected to.
I don't know where you think all of these Parise type players are hiding because their are zero top end guys that the staff isn't in contact with. With only 18 scholarships to go around between ~25 players I don't know how much better Eaves can do on the recruiting front, it isn't as if UW is being blown out on the recruiting front, they win as much as to be expected when they go head to head with the UND, UMN, UMI, DU, BU and BC for the top end players. To believe that UW will win every recruiting battle is as absurd as believing that UW will win every game.
Eaves recruited teams have never lacked for talent, experience and cohesion sure, but never talent. The issue has not been getting quality talent to campus with Eaves, but what happens to that talent once it is on campus.
The BTHC is going to have zero impact on recruiting going forward regardless of who the coach is, what conference UW in changes nothing for UW.
solovsfett
Registered User
Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time
thanks for the stats, so Barnes Lee and to an extent Dahl are underperforming or being coached out of their creativity or some of both. although with Dahl I don't get the impression he was ever expected to score.
I'm not sure where you get that I think Eaves should land all the Parise's in the world. If I need to elucidate my comments re the WJC I mean that I expected him to land a few more of those guys over the years. that the acknowledged high-end guys like say an Earl and Pavelski are pretty big exceptions for Eaves, not the rule. Turris was another exception. He gets these guys maybe one here and one there and on rare occasions can get two to play together for a season or two. That's not what I expected in 2003 and it's not what I expect now. I expect a bit better than that. and better than that is how DU, BC, MN and Nodak have been operating on the recruiting front. UW has had some losses on that front. Riley Smith, Ryan Walters to name just two. that's pretty important. if one or both of those guys lands at UW that might be enough to change our current outlook based on W/L records
I'm curious...how does Chuck feel about these kids and how they've turned out? JoeyV?
thanks for the stats, so Barnes Lee and to an extent Dahl are underperforming or being coached out of their creativity or some of both. although with Dahl I don't get the impression he was ever expected to score.
I'm not sure where you get that I think Eaves should land all the Parise's in the world. If I need to elucidate my comments re the WJC I mean that I expected him to land a few more of those guys over the years. that the acknowledged high-end guys like say an Earl and Pavelski are pretty big exceptions for Eaves, not the rule. Turris was another exception. He gets these guys maybe one here and one there and on rare occasions can get two to play together for a season or two. That's not what I expected in 2003 and it's not what I expect now. I expect a bit better than that. and better than that is how DU, BC, MN and Nodak have been operating on the recruiting front. UW has had some losses on that front. Riley Smith, Ryan Walters to name just two. that's pretty important. if one or both of those guys lands at UW that might be enough to change our current outlook based on W/L records
I'm curious...how does Chuck feel about these kids and how they've turned out? JoeyV?
Gandalf the Red
Cardinal and White Wizard
Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time
Perhaps Eaves is afraid that is he opens things up and lets some of these talented players be creative and use their skills that it will mean that his "system" is not all that wonderful and he should reconsider what he is doing. There are many people in the world who have had something work, and think it will continue to work into the future because of the previous success.
I think there is more talent on this team than others are saying, we just aren't allowed to see it maximized because of the way Eaves coaches currently.
As for passing and shooting on the PP, there were several times this weekend where to my eye a pass was made when a shot was the obvious choice. I don't want them just flinging random shots toward the net just because, but never flinging random shots on net and then losing the puck out of the zone after a passing marathon is equally as useless. Especially on a 4 on 3 or 5 on 3, the chances of the defenders clearing the puck has decreased, why they don't shoot more in those situations and crash the net is a mystery to me.
I'm no hockey genius, I'll freely admit that, but after watching a couple hundred badger games the last 7 years, even an amateur begins to wonder what is happening.
Perhaps Eaves is afraid that is he opens things up and lets some of these talented players be creative and use their skills that it will mean that his "system" is not all that wonderful and he should reconsider what he is doing. There are many people in the world who have had something work, and think it will continue to work into the future because of the previous success.
I think there is more talent on this team than others are saying, we just aren't allowed to see it maximized because of the way Eaves coaches currently.
As for passing and shooting on the PP, there were several times this weekend where to my eye a pass was made when a shot was the obvious choice. I don't want them just flinging random shots toward the net just because, but never flinging random shots on net and then losing the puck out of the zone after a passing marathon is equally as useless. Especially on a 4 on 3 or 5 on 3, the chances of the defenders clearing the puck has decreased, why they don't shoot more in those situations and crash the net is a mystery to me.
I'm no hockey genius, I'll freely admit that, but after watching a couple hundred badger games the last 7 years, even an amateur begins to wonder what is happening.
Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time
look at the roster again, there is not more talent than is showing, this team is what it is the very good goaltending is actually covering up the lack of skill on this team. on a good team tyler barnes should be a third line winger. there is no lack of creativity just a lack of high end skill
look at the roster again, there is not more talent than is showing, this team is what it is the very good goaltending is actually covering up the lack of skill on this team. on a good team tyler barnes should be a third line winger. there is no lack of creativity just a lack of high end skill
sweatpants
Registered User
Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time
I agree with everything Gurt has said in this thread.
I agree with everything Gurt has said in this thread.
gojackets
New member
Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time
Does anyone know...according to this link the SCSU @ Wisconsin series is being played in phoenix on March 8 & 9....is this true??
http://events.azcentral.com/phoenix_az/events/hockey
Does anyone know...according to this link the SCSU @ Wisconsin series is being played in phoenix on March 8 & 9....is this true??
http://events.azcentral.com/phoenix_az/events/hockey
G
Gurtholfin
Guest
Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time
No, it's at the Alliant Energy Center Coliseum here in Madison.
KC was unavailable, so they put it there instead.
No, it's at the Alliant Energy Center Coliseum here in Madison.
KC was unavailable, so they put it there instead.
WisconsinWildcard
The plural of anecdote is not data
Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time
Are we seriously blaming Eaves for guys having their production at the D1 level less then what they produced in juniors or high school....AGAIN? We already had this conversation before and it is beyond retarded to expect production not to decrease at every step up the pyramid of hockey as you step up in weight class and are playing the next level.
Don't believe me? Here 4 guys point per game numbers:
Heatley 2.5 in AJHL, 1.46 at UW, & .99 at the NHL level
Toews 1.7 at Shattucks, 1.11 at North Dakota, .90 in the NHL
Kessel 2.35 with USDT-U18, 1.30 at Minny, .72 in the NHL
Crosby 2.8 at Shuttucks, 2.5 in QMJHL, and 1.4 in the NHL
Eaves problem is not systems, developmental, or any other malarchy you want to blame him for. His problem has been the roster is always short one (or more) of those guys that have that ability you can't teach in as much as you either have it or you don't. Whether it is not getting enough of the Kessel, Toews, or Heatleys of the world, or having them leave to soon....that is the real problem. It's not the X's and the O's, it's the Jimmy's and the Joe's.
Are we seriously blaming Eaves for guys having their production at the D1 level less then what they produced in juniors or high school....AGAIN? We already had this conversation before and it is beyond retarded to expect production not to decrease at every step up the pyramid of hockey as you step up in weight class and are playing the next level.
Don't believe me? Here 4 guys point per game numbers:
Heatley 2.5 in AJHL, 1.46 at UW, & .99 at the NHL level
Toews 1.7 at Shattucks, 1.11 at North Dakota, .90 in the NHL
Kessel 2.35 with USDT-U18, 1.30 at Minny, .72 in the NHL
Crosby 2.8 at Shuttucks, 2.5 in QMJHL, and 1.4 in the NHL
Eaves problem is not systems, developmental, or any other malarchy you want to blame him for. His problem has been the roster is always short one (or more) of those guys that have that ability you can't teach in as much as you either have it or you don't. Whether it is not getting enough of the Kessel, Toews, or Heatleys of the world, or having them leave to soon....that is the real problem. It's not the X's and the O's, it's the Jimmy's and the Joe's.
Almington
Blood Boiling with Rage and Hate
Every players numbers will decrease as they move up in talent level, the issue is that point-per-game junior players come to UW and have their production completely fall off a cliff. While every program has players who can't adjust to the next level, it seems that Eaves has one of those players EVERY single season. Either the talent identification or the talent development or the overall system isn't working and in any case the responsibility is Eaves and Eaves alone as the head of the program.
Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. XXIV - Craziest Season Of All Time
I agree this all falls at Eaves feet in the end as he is the CEO. I disagree that other programs don't have guys just not pan out at a similar frequency.
I agree this all falls at Eaves feet in the end as he is the CEO. I disagree that other programs don't have guys just not pan out at a similar frequency.
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