Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XX - Growth Through Experience

[Almington]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XX - Growth Through Experience

you mean little, little, meuer, dahl, hartzog, and .... yeah I hear ya. Condon was low-balled apparently. and for out-of state guys UW couldn't land Reilly Smith, and...either wasn't interested in Ben Hanowski or whiffed...

that bs and it needs to stop immediately. meaning Eaves has to change the recruiting tactics now and they need to work asap (like w/in 2-3 years) or we're looking at 2002-3 all over again.

Seriously, you expect Eaves to be able to predict the future with every recruit? How would you fix recruiting? You have 18 scholarships to spread across 26+ players and saying get more talented players isn't a solution- HOW would you get more offensively talented players to attend UW?

As for consistency, in my experience the number ONE factor in on-ice consistency is coaching staff consistency since the players turn over so quickly. How many assistants has Eaves gone though in 10 years? How many have those other schools gone through? Isn't Hackstol STILL with his first set of assistants? Pearson was at UMI for 20+ years before he left to take the MTU job. Gwoz has turned over assistant coaches, but at a fairly slow pace. Both BU and BC have 1st assistant coaches who are long tenured at the school. It seems that Eaves is turning over assistants on almost a yearly basis. That type of turn over is going to hurt with both recruiting and with the on-ice product.

How many different assistant coaches has Johnson had as the woman's coach over the same time period? A total of 3 (not including Peter Johnson who was an assistant during the 09-10 season while Mark was HC for the US Olympic team). That is the type of continuity that is needed on the men's side to get more consistent on the ice.

 

[markwojo]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XX - Growth Through Experience

Take a deep breath before jumping head long off the bandwagon. Once Smith and Murray left, if your expectations were anything more then battling for the last home ice spot and something a little over .500, well you just weren't being realistic. Lengthy injuries to Lee and McCabe did not help in the least either. We can argue whether that should ever be the case at UW given the history, facilities, game day atmosphere, ect, but the fact is virtually every team in the country goes through some ups and downs. That is the nature of the beast where success gets you losing kids to the NHL, Canadian Juniors can come in real late and pick off a kid the Summer before they are to show up, and to put it bluntly...there are many very attractive options for good hockey players to go to school in addition to UW.

All that said, this team is not that far off. For those of you that want to sing the virtues of the '06 title team, you must have forgotten how aweful we were in '02-03 (Burish had 6 assists in 19 games) and how '03-'04 was pretty mediocre when the rest of the backbone of the national title team was taking it's lumps as underclassmen. The '06 title team was the culmination of a journey for an awesome upperclass that did not look so awesome their first couple years on campus. Trick was, you injected a couple game breakers in Earl and Pavs who got the benefit of playing with a big group of upperclassmen that had been through the battles. Call me crazy, but when you interject Kerdies, Zullnick and Wittchow next fall....the Badger may be real close to the same thing as the '04-05 team...still not sniffing a title...but plenty of pieces in place to grow into a title contender the following season.

Ramage has been real disappointing this season...he is real bad a times. Rumpel is the furthest thing from our problems at this point. Yes, I did not like Hanowski's second goal as his angle was aweful and a decent Pee Wee could have hit that net, but he has been in general very solid this season and will only get better. Simonelli and Faust are both decent and show some flashes....if Ramage were playing like a junior captain should...they would be even better. McCabe has the tools to be very special, but his injury really stunted what he might have been at this point otherwise. Barnes, Zengerle, & Mersch are good to very good college players already. LaBate, Paape, Meuer, and Woods have some tools and in the next couple seasons likely grow into very good college players. Add in Zullnick and Kerdies and you have an excellent top 3 lines.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XX - Growth Through Experience

Seriously, you expect Eaves to be able to predict the future with every recruit? How would you fix recruiting? You have 18 scholarships to spread across 26+ players and saying get more talented players isn't a solution- HOW would you get more offensively talented players to attend UW?

As for consistency, in my experience the number ONE factor in on-ice consistency is coaching staff consistency since the players turn over so quickly. How many assistants has Eaves gone though in 10 years? How many have those other schools gone through? Isn't Hackstol STILL with his first set of assistants? Pearson was at UMI for 20+ years before he left to take the MTU job. Gwoz has turned over assistant coaches, but at a fairly slow pace. Both BU and BC have 1st assistant coaches who are long tenured at the school. It seems that Eaves is turning over assistants on almost a yearly basis. That type of turn over is going to hurt with both recruiting and with the on-ice product.

How many different assistant coaches has Johnson had as the woman's coach over the same time period? A total of 3 (not including Peter Johnson who was an assistant during the 09-10 season while Mark was HC for the US Olympic team). That is the type of continuity that is needed on the men's side to get more consistent on the ice.

consistency in assistant coaches like Year 1 through 4? weren't there about 4 different assistants in that time? and that team was on a dramatic arc upwards. Suter, Earl, Pavelski, Skille (3rd liner I'd add on that NCAA team), high marquee guys committed quickly. back then it didn't seem to matter that ward and hynes and whomever else were only around for about 2 seasons.

as for changing recruiting how about fixing the major problem. stop playing cheap, and stop offering to average players. as a hypothetical what would happen if you send this entire team to Jeff Jackson, Gwoz or Lucia right now and how many get sent packing? How many? I'd say 10-12. so right there I'm saying it and have said it, the team is stockpiled w/average players and grinders, players w/limited ceilings. STOP recruiting those types for the love of god. maybe Eaves now thinks he's Bo Ryan and can take 5 of us out of the stands and magically make us great

landing Grimaldi, Fasching, Cammaratta (yeah, yeah UW had not shot), Jordan Schmaltz (if it was OZ leaving that put him off why didn't he follow Oz o tOSU?) would help but I have no idea if Eaves goes after these guys hard and is whiffing on them or what. I do recall Chuck or someone stating they'd moved away from recruiting top flight talent at forward but I don't recall why (this was about 07ish)

Also, how about getting the average players that there's such an over abundance of to develop?

right now UW is being out-recruited by: BC, BU, Denver, Minnesota, UND, Michigan, Notre Dame and quite possibly CC, UNO, UMD and Miami as well. that's ridiculous.

 

[BUmutt]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XX - Growth Through Experience

Hey Badgers fans. Here is my article on Nic Kerdiles. Hope you like it. Also, please share this with as many people as you can. Would be greatly appreciated.

http://thehockeywriters.com/nic-kerdiles-california-dreamin/

 

[MW4Bucky&SNC]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XX - Growth Through Experience

I'm not going to go back and read everything everyone has to say because I know the debate is getting interesting. Last night was an inexcusable embarassment. Yes the officiating was horse **** but you still have to react with some composure. After the easy missed call immediately leading up to the first goal and the call against Ramage that anyone with a functioning brain knows was awful they completely lost their focus and composure. The Woods' hit was North Dakota dirty and just has no place in this program.

Now, to the overarching subject. Here is my personal philosophy for a program set up to legitimately contend regularly like the Badgers are. A National Championship gets you 4 years of a heat-free seat and a Frozen Four gets you 2. Next year if we are looking at a team who is headed for another NCAA-free season I have no problem throwing a few logs in the fire under his seat. Do others have certain bench marks as to how much time certain accomplishments give you?

 

[Buck 'em]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XX - Growth Through Experience

Well, I gues I have a slightly different take on last night's game. To me, the Badgers looked pretty sharp early in the game, controlling the puck in the offensive zone and generating scoring opportunities. Even the crowd was more energetic than recent games. And Lee didn't look sharp early - there were plenty of juicy-looking rebounds, but the Badgers didn't convert.

I think the turning point was the no-call on SCSU's first goal, combined with Ramage getting booted. From my vantage-point, I thought the hit was clean, but I haven't seen a replay. Either way, the air just came out of the team after that, and they played like crap the rest of the game. MW4 is correct - they just lost composure and it showed.

I did learn something last night: I always thought the goalie was like any other player if he's handling the puck outside of the crease. That's obviously not the case.

As far as coaching goes, I agree with others that the recent departures have been significant. No need to look any further than OSU and Osiecki's success.

There's no question this season has been a dissapointment, but, frankly, I didn't expect much to begin with.

"Wisconsin Hockey - let's drive that fan bus over the cliff!"

 

[Almington]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XX - Growth Through Experience

consistency in assistant coaches like Year 1 through 4? weren't there about 4 different assistants in that time? and that team was on a dramatic arc upwards. Suter, Earl, Pavelski, Skille (3rd liner I'd add on that NCAA team), high marquee guys committed quickly. back then it didn't seem to matter that ward and hynes and whomever else were only around for about 2 seasons.

as for changing recruiting how about fixing the major problem. stop playing cheap, and stop offering to average players. as a hypothetical what would happen if you send this entire team to Jeff Jackson, Gwoz or Lucia right now and how many get sent packing? How many? I'd say 10-12. so right there I'm saying it and have said it, the team is stockpiled w/average players and grinders, players w/limited ceilings. STOP recruiting those types for the love of god. maybe Eaves now thinks he's Bo Ryan and can take 5 of us out of the stands and magically make us great

landing Grimaldi, Fasching, Cammaratta (yeah, yeah UW had not shot), Jordan Schmaltz (if it was OZ leaving that put him off why didn't he follow Oz o tOSU?) would help but I have no idea if Eaves goes after these guys hard and is whiffing on them or what. I do recall Chuck or someone stating they'd moved away from recruiting top flight talent at forward but I don't recall why (this was about 07ish)

Also, how about getting the average players that there's such an over abundance of to develop?

right now UW is being out-recruited by: BC, BU, Denver, Minnesota, UND, Michigan, Notre Dame and quite possibly CC, UNO, UMD and Miami as well. that's ridiculous.

How many of those top flight players was UW able to land because of their previous relationship with Eaves at the NTDP? I don't think that Eaves has stopped offering to the top end players, I think that it's just that their are not enough top end players to go around. You seem to think that EVERY top player should want to go to UW, that isn't a realistically expectation. Your solution to improve the recruiting is to not offer to anyone who isn't a top end forward is completely ludicrous. You have this mistaken belief that Eaves wan't going to focus on top end talent, and that's obserd. My recolection was that Eaves wasn't going to focus so much on the one-and-done players in favor of more 3 and 4 year players, which isn't the wrong view IMHO. Their are so few top-10 NHL draft picks that even consider the NCAA route that not focusing your recruiting efforts on them isn't going to set a program back.

How do you propose that Eaves get more top level players to come to UW or do you propose that the team just suit up one line and see how that goes? What other school has an AD that goes around claiming that "I'm not a Hockey guy" and publicly calling out the hockey alumni in a blatant attempt to guilt/extort donations? When TV coverage has completely tanked since the 05-06 season? As long as the athletic department continues treating the hockey program as a second rate program other school will be able to use that in recruiting against UW.

PK struggles are not the result of a lack of talent, but a lack of experience. The issue is that ALL of the forwards are dramatically inexperienced and that they have NO ONE to watch and learn from. Teaching and learning comes from more than just the coaching staff, upperclassmen teach the underclassmen and the knowledge continues to propagate within the program, when you don't have that balance you lose that teaching tool and it becomes harder to improve going forward because you are always going back to square one and it takes time to get back to the level you were at previously.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XX - Growth Through Experience

How many of those top flight players was UW able to land because of their previous relationship with Eaves at the NTDP? I don't think that Eaves has stopped offering to the top end players, I think that it's just that their are not enough top end players to go around. You seem to think that EVERY top player should want to go to UW, that isn't a realistically expectation. Your solution to improve the recruiting is to not offer to anyone who isn't a top end forward is completely ludicrous. You have this mistaken belief that Eaves wan't going to focus on top end talent, and that's obserd. My recolection was that Eaves wasn't going to focus so much on the one-and-done players in favor of more 3 and 4 year players, which isn't the wrong view IMHO. Their are so few top-10 NHL draft picks that even consider the NCAA route that not focusing your recruiting efforts on them isn't going to set a program back.

How do you propose that Eaves get more top level players to come to UW or do you propose that the team just suit up one line and see how that goes? What other school has an AD that goes around claiming that "I'm not a Hockey guy" and publicly calling out the hockey alumni in a blatant attempt to guilt/extort donations? When TV coverage has completely tanked since the 05-06 season? As long as the athletic department continues treating the hockey program as a second rate program other school will be able to use that in recruiting against UW.

PK struggles are not the result of a lack of talent, but a lack of experience. The issue is that ALL of the forwards are dramatically inexperienced and that they have NO ONE to watch and learn from. Teaching and learning comes from more than just the coaching staff, upperclassmen teach the underclassmen and the knowledge continues to propagate within the program, when you don't have that balance you lose that teaching tool and it becomes harder to improve going forward because you are always going back to square one and it takes time to get back to the level you were at previously.

I don't think I'm mistaken. I'm 90% certain that Chuck or someone w/more knowledge of the recruiting game stated Eaves chose to move away from targeting high-end high-risk players (and by that I don't just mean just the Sam Gangers and Pat Kane's, though I'm sure Eaves feels burned by those experiences) back in 07 or thereabouts as he was probably unhappy w/early departures. problem is the other teams that go for these guys and get them will win more plain and simple.

but it's not just high-end Parise types. he's also not landing the Pavelski's and Earl's over the last 5-6 years and it shows up in games like last night where St. Cloud had 0 to fear from UW forwards not named Zengerle.

and point out where in my statements I said they should *solely* recruit high-end guys. I basically said stop recruiting 10 little's every two years so the team is stacked with 3 4th lines, that's a recipe for average to below-average teams.

further: on the championship team Jack Skille was a 3rd line guy. that's exactly how deep a team needs to be with talent to win it all. UW isn't in the ball park for that today, and it will take 2-3 more classes of good to great recruits to get there.

the team is young but that doesn't explain entirely what's transpired this year. the Burish Class is an excellent example of this. they played like vets from the get-go because they were internally motivated to kick-***, they stuck together, AND they were more talented than many had thought. We all know there was a rift between Eaves and the upperclassmen, and the frosh (Burish, Mac et al) and the upperclassmen so I don't think those frosh were learning from the upperclassmen, rather they led by example of hard-work and the upperclassmen either got on board or sulked and caused problems in the lockeroom

so what I'm saying is if you've got it you've got it and the significance of your experience is between getting 18-21 wins and getting 25-28 wins.

what UW has now is 16 wins *IF* they win tonight and split the final 3 series (and I don't see that happening anymore). that's more than a lack of experience. that's a dearth of talent.

 

[MadCityRich]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XX - Growth Through Experience

I've posted, edited and deleted 5 times....I don't know what to say that hasn't been said. We didn't expect too much this year, but not this. I'm very surprised. The team seems dead, the crowds are dead. Probably one of the most frustrating seasons for me as a fan <strike>in many years</strike>as long as I can remember

 

[The Rube]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XX - Growth Through Experience

What are you saying? That we need to adjust something with our Minnesotans? Is THAT what you're saying? As if simply changing something with that part of our team would be enough coz they're so, so important. Your arrogance is stunning.

Is it that if we had more Minnesota kids we'd be better? Or that we should have less Minnesota kids? Recruit more Iron Range kids so we can have more grit? Now you're not gonna tell me we need more kids from Edina (rhymes with?) coz they're a bunch of prima-donna crybabies. So confusing.

Um, none of the above. I'm saying that with more kids leaving WI early, it's like what MN has gone through the past few years. You really try too hard to create something out of nothing.

 

[Almington]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XX - Growth Through Experience

I don't think I'm mistaken. I'm 90% certain that Chuck or someone w/more knowledge of the recruiting game stated Eaves chose to move away from targeting high-end high-risk players (and by that I don't just mean just the Sam Gangers and Pat Kane's, though I'm sure Eaves feels burned by those experiences) back in 07 or thereabouts as he was probably unhappy w/early departures. problem is the other teams that go for these guys and get them will win more plain and simple.

but it's not just high-end Parise types. he's also not landing the Pavelski's and Earl's over the last 5-6 years and it shows up in games like last night where St. Cloud had 0 to fear from UW forwards not named Zengerle.

and point out where in my statements I said they should *solely* recruit high-end guys. I basically said stop recruiting 10 little's every two years so the team is stacked with 3 4th lines, that's a recipe for average to below-average teams.

further: on the championship team Jack Skille was a 3rd line guy. that's exactly how deep a team needs to be with talent to win it all. UW isn't in the ball park for that today, and it will take 2-3 more classes of good to great recruits to get there.

the team is young but that doesn't explain entirely what's transpired this year. the Burish Class is an excellent example of this. they played like vets from the get-go because they were internally motivated to kick-***, they stuck together, AND they were more talented than many had thought. We all know there was a rift between Eaves and the upperclassmen, and the frosh (Burish, Mac et al) and the upperclassmen so I don't think those frosh were learning from the upperclassmen, rather they led by example of hard-work and the upperclassmen either got on board or sulked and caused problems in the lockeroom

so what I'm saying is if you've got it you've got it and the significance of your experience is between getting 18-21 wins and getting 25-28 wins.

what UW has now is 16 wins *IF* they win tonight and split the final 3 series (and I don't see that happening anymore). that's more than a lack of experience. that's a dearth of talent.

We want the same thing: UW to be a perennial power. You are frustrated about this year, we all are. I get that. The fact of the matter is that claiming that recruiting is the problem and needs to be fixed isn't constructive. You seem to believe that Eaves isn't going after the talent forwards - that absolutely IS NOT the case. Do you know why those forwards are choosing to go elsewhere rather than to UW? Demanding better recruiting isn't going to magically make it better. Eaves doesn't offer to "average" players because he wants them over the elite players, but because he needs enough players to field a team.

Eaves is landing the Earl and Pavs types: The Stepans and C. Smiths the difference is that whereas Gilbert and Burrish stayed for a senior seasons, those players left after 2. Their are only so many top level players to go around and UW has landed just as many of them as any other school. The problem is that EVERY player on the team is going through major growing pains at the same time. Pavs was a 21 Year old Frosh, was is Zengerle. The difference between 18 and 21 is huge and shouldn't be discounted.

The 05-06 team had 5 seniors and 8 Junior on it, much more experienced group of players. Even in the 03-04 season when those players were So and Fr, the team still have tri-captains in Borque, Besser and Woz. Seniors who had bought into what Eaves was doing and lead the team. Talk about re-writing history with respect to the Burrish class and the 03-04 season. Licari and Degenheart were examples of the "average players" who you want Eaves to stop offering spots to.

Anyone who thinks that having only 3 upperclassmen AND bringing in players direct from High School won't show up on the ice in the on-ice performance is fooling themselves. That is the reason that the PK is last in the league: it isn't about talent, it's about learning a system and playing the system mistake free. You make mistakes on the PK and the chances the other team scores dramatically increases.

I believe that losing Oz to OSU has hurt the program much, much more than many people realize; partly because of what Oz was able to do, and partly because of the void has not been filled.

I'm done with this, i'm sick of your whining about the problem that the recruiting and claiming that Eaves isn't trying. Does anyone REALLY believe that firing Eaves and bringing in different coach is going to magically fix things? I don't.

 

[Almington]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XX - Growth Through Experience

Um, none of the above. I'm saying that with more kids leaving WI early, it's like what MN has gone through the past few years. You really try too hard to create something out of nothing.

I'm actually wondering if the "problem" is much more like MN than any of us know...

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XX - Growth Through Experience

We want the same thing: UW to be a perennial power. You are frustrated about this year, we all are. I get that. The fact of the matter is that claiming that recruiting is the problem and needs to be fixed isn't constructive. You seem to believe that Eaves isn't going after the talent forwards - that absolutely IS NOT the case. Do you know why those forwards are choosing to go elsewhere rather than to UW? Demanding better recruiting isn't going to magically make it better. Eaves doesn't offer to "average" players because he wants them over the elite players, but because he needs enough players to field a team.

Eaves is landing the Earl and Pavs types: The Stepans and C. Smiths the difference is that whereas Gilbert and Burrish stayed for a senior seasons, those players left after 2. Their are only so many top level players to go around and UW has landed just as many of them as any other school. The problem is that EVERY player on the team is going through major growing pains at the same time. Pavs was a 21 Year old Frosh, was is Zengerle. The difference between 18 and 21 is huge and shouldn't be discounted.

The 05-06 team had 5 seniors and 8 Junior on it, much more experienced group of players. Even in the 03-04 season when those players were So and Fr, the team still have tri-captains in Borque, Besser and Woz. Seniors who had bought into what Eaves was doing and lead the team. Talk about re-writing history with respect to the Burrish class and the 03-04 season. Licari and Degenheart were examples of the "average players" who you want Eaves to stop offering spots to.

Anyone who thinks that having only 3 upperclassmen AND bringing in players direct from High School won't show up on the ice in the on-ice performance is fooling themselves. That is the reason that the PK is last in the league: it isn't about talent, it's about learning a system and playing the system mistake free. You make mistakes on the PK and the chances the other team scores dramatically increases.

I believe that losing Oz to OSU has hurt the program much, much more than many people realize; partly because of what Oz was able to do, and partly because of the void has not been filled.

I'm done with this, i'm sick of your whining about the problem that the recruiting and claiming that Eaves isn't trying. Does anyone REALLY believe that firing Eaves and bringing in different coach is going to magically fix things? I don't.

Degenhart and Licari played their roles on the 4th line EXACTLY as they were supposed to. UW doesn't need 2-3 lines of these guys which is exactly what they have now.

Obviously we see this team much differently than each other, I'm fine with that.

you know what I'm sick of? you putting words in my mouth.

I asked you to show me where I said UW should solely recruit high-end players (as opposed to *more* high-end players and less average players which is what I said) and you have nothing.

Now I'm going to ask you to illustrate and/or point out where I said "Eaves isn't trying". Unless you refer to targeting high-end forward recruits which I've explained Eaves has moved away from mostly.

and also point out to me where I said Eaves should be fired.

You can't do it so shut yer yap about my posts unless you want to rip me for what I ACTUALLY POSTED (because you disagree to whatever extent which would be fine) as opposed to making things up as you go.

I don't want Eaves fired but I DO want pressure placed on him like the kind all good coaches at high-level universities experience when they're not living up to expectations. this is year 2 in a row w/no NCAA's and road wcha playoffs. that's what you get when this happens, the pressure of expectations and the added weight of not meeting them.

getting blown the hell out of your own building 5-1 to a team that's not going to make the ncaa's unless they magically win the F5 is terrible and not explainable solely by "youth" and lack of leadership. those are excuses and alibi's right? they not only got blown out they looked like they DIDN'T belong on the ice with St. Cloud and for vast stretches in St. Cloud it appeared the same in at least one of those 2 road games. they looked awful. plain and simple.

too compound that you had guys like Woods acting like class "A" goons out there. I'm sorry but I'm going to call it out on here.

in 03-04 when they looked terrible you could see the frosh really had something good going. I'm not going to simply believe they have something going for next year when I don't see it with this current group. sorry.

 

[Almington]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XX - Growth Through Experience

you know what I'm sick of? you putting words in my mouth.

I'm not

I asked you to show me where I said UW should solely recruit high-end players (as opposed to *more* high-end players and less average players which is what I said) and you have nothing.

You said:

stop playing cheap, and stop offering to average players.

stop recruiting 10 little's every two years so the team is stacked with 3 4th line

So you want Eaves to stop recruiting average players over the top end players. My point is that Eaves IS still trying to get the top end players and that he fills in with average players so that the team can field 4 full lines. If he doesn't fill with average players then he HAS to only play with the top end players. It is the only logical conclusion to what you said.

Do you REALLY believe that Eaves wouldn't take the players that would give the team the best chance to win? Particularly considering that he has brought in a string of d-men who no one expected to stay all 4 years and forwards like Stepan and Smith?

Now I'm going to ask you to illustrate and/or point out where I said "Eaves isn't trying". Unless you refer to targeting high-end forward recruits which I've explained Eaves has moved away from mostly.

My point is that their is a difference between RECRUITING a player and LANDING a player. Eaves is RECRUITING all of the top talent available. Back after Turris' year at UW and with the whole Kessel issue, Eaves made it sound like he wasn't that interested in spending a significant amount of time trying to land the one-and-done players, of which there are at most 1 or 2 a season. Players like that can really mess with a team's chemistry and they are often focused more on where they are going than helping the team win now.

and also point out to me where I said Eaves should be fired.

You said:

Eaves has to change the recruiting tactics now and they need to work asap (like w/in 2-3 years) or we're looking at 2002-03 all over again.

"Looking at 2002-03" implies going through a coaching change transition and that Eaves is no longer the coach. I don't know how else to read that.

I don't want Eaves fired but I DO want pressure placed on him like the kind all good coaches at high-level universities experience when they're not living up to expectations. this is year 2 in a row w/no NCAA's and road wcha playoffs. that's what you get when this happens, the pressure of expectations and the added weight of not meeting them.

Pressure in the form of "Start winning or you're fired"? That's generally how these things work in coaching at high-level/high expectation positions.

I didn't say that you wanted Eaves fired today, my point was that replacing Eaves isn't going to be some magic bullet that will suddenly make the team a perennial NCAA team.

getting blown the hell out of your own building 5-1 to a team that's not going to make the ncaa's unless they magically win the F5 is terrible and not explainable solely by "youth" and lack of leadership. those are excuses and alibi's right? they not only got blown out they looked like they DIDN'T belong on the ice with St. Cloud and for vast stretches in St. Cloud it appeared the same in at least one of those 2 road games. they looked awful. plain and simple.

It's about understanding WHY something happened and diagnosing the underlying cause. I didn't see an untalented team, I saw a young team that went completely off the rails when things went wrong - EXACTLY what you would expect from a young and inexperienced team.

too compound that you had guys like Woods acting like class "A" goons out there. I'm sorry but I'm going to call it out on here.

Something that you'd expect from an immature and emotional teenager: to lash out when faced with a perceived unfair situation.

in 03-04 when they looked terrible you could see the frosh really had something good going. I'm not going to simply believe they have something going for next year when I don't see it with this current group. sorry.

That team had a 5 senors and an experienced junior goalie to stabilize the team, this group doesn't have that same core to keep them from going off the rails (particularly when one of the few upperclassmen gets tossed when he shouldn't have.

Yes, we see this team differently. I see potential for the future and hold on to my hope for next year. You just see reasons why things won't get better: you really are UW's version of Scooby, just no where near as funny.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XX - Growth Through Experience

Um, none of the above. I'm saying that with more kids leaving WI early, it's like what MN has gone through the past few years. You really try too hard to create something out of nothing.

Re-read my post, or at least the part that you quoted and tell me that you think I was serious about what I said.

An awful lot of Minnesotans really struggle with recognizing sarcasm. Maybe the inherent dooshytis and resulting constant ridicule from others has you guys constantly on the defensive to the point that you can't recognize when someone is just having fun with you.

I went on to agree with your premise. Sheesh. You'd think you guys would've developed a sense of humor as a defense mechanism by now.

When I said "Okay, seriously...," that was a clue that the preceding comments were a joke and that what followed was, well, me being serious.

Talk about trying to create something out of nothing...

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XX - Growth Through Experience

Almington get serious. you are reading my posts and implying things that aren't there. Re-read all of your responses to the quotes you pulled. You've taken a point I'm making and run full speed into a conclusion I haven't made. You're trying to push my statements into a box you want me to fit in. Well, you can believe it if you want to but my statements are pretty clear.

So as a whole, I don't have the inclination to go point by point like you do. we disagree. enough said. but I will say this, if you're wanting to start w/the back-handed jabs at me personally it will be a one-sided affair. I'm not into that so go nuts.

 

[bucky15]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XX - Growth Through Experience

Hey Badgers fans. Here is my article on Nic Kerdiles. Hope you like it. Also, please share this with as many people as you can. Would be greatly appreciated.

http://thehockeywriters.com/nic-kerdiles-california-dreamin/

Thanks, wonderful article! Sounds like a good kid.

 

[bucky15]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XX - Growth Through Experience

Positive note..........

Somone brought Ryan MacMurchy up in a post below.

Ryan MacMurchy!! HE FIGHTS, HE FIGHTS, HE FIGHTS!....no wait he scores now and a lot.

Leading the league in Norway in points.

http://www.eliteprospects.com/league_home.php?leagueid=15

Lucky guy is playing/living on the coast of Norway and doing very well.

 

[burd]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XX - Growth Through Experience

All coaches at the D1 level are big on discipline and running a system, but Eaves is defined by it. When UW transitioned from Sauer, that's what they needed most, and Eaves delivered in spades. But it is very difficult for a young, inexperienced team to show the benefits of his kind of leadership and coaching. I know that's true of all coaches and almost cliche', but with Eaves it's magnified. And I think he's a good coach.

As far as recruiting, other than small-town kids from Warroad or Roseau or kids from western Canada, all of whom identify a little with UND (and assistant coaches from there), I really cannot see why many recruits would not choose UW. Great hockey tradition, cool town, and a great college atmosphere. To say nothing of special deals on athletic shoes . . .

 

[markwojo]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey: Vol. XX - Growth Through Experience

Jordan Schmaltz (if it was OZ leaving that put him off why didn't he follow Oz o tOSU?) would help but I have no idea if Eaves goes after these guys hard and is whiffing on them or what. I do recall Chuck or someone stating they'd moved away from recruiting top flight talent at forward but I don't recall why (this was about 07ish)

Also, how about getting the average players that there's such an over abundance of to develop?

right now UW is being out-recruited by: BC, BU, Denver, Minnesota, UND, Michigan, Notre Dame and quite possibly CC, UNO, UMD and Miami as well. that's ridiculous.

You do realize the Schmaltz family ties to North Dakota are extremely deep? Overlooking those ties to play for argueably the assistant coach with the best track record for getting guys to the NHL in the college game and getting to stay home is one thing, following that guy who is going to give up some of the hands on work with the D to be the head guy in Columbus, Oh is a little different. When Oz left, the pull of the family ties along with a stable coaching staff which also has a decent history of producing NHL dmen was a logical step...not that you or I have to like it.

The schools you list are not exactly something to be ashamed of. There are a lot of really good choices for great hockey players to go to college.