WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, What?

[markwojo]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

Don't mean to put you on the spot, but one can only think you are mentioning Zach Stepan......I could be wrong

That would be a logical person to guess.

 

[Chuck Schwartz]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

I guess what I'm saying is I'm off the Eaves bandwagon. I was on-board hardcore from year 1 through year 7. year 7 I began to have some questions but still had faith. the last 4 years (including this season) I've lost confidence that he can get this team where they need to be, a year in and year out contender.

So let me get this straight, you didn't have confidence in Eaves getting the team 'where they need to be' after year 7 even though they played in the national championship game in year 8 and won 28 games?

 

[solovsfett]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

So let me get this straight, you didn't have confidence in Eaves getting the team 'where they need to be' after year 7 even though they played in the national championship game in year 8 and won 28 games?

after the first 4 years I thought things were going great and the team was headed in the right direction. Unfortunately 2 years after the NCAA championship I began to feel that wasn't the case and the missed NCAA's, lack of forward scoring depth (and what I thought was a strange recruiting angle with too many grinders from Wisconsin, I'll just say it) began to prove my bad feeling correct.

Look, I don't like saying it but I feel it must be said. He's not cutting it. Not at a school that once was (and STILL SHOULD BE) a perennial power. I don't think average is acceptable and I don't think watching a team full of 8-9 grinding forwards is fun and they certainly won't win hardware with a line-up like that. what's more I think the scenario I laid out could come to fruition easily. miss the NCAA's again this year, 5 of 7 years, then they've got 1, just 1 year to try and make the NCAA's with an upperclassmen team. then it's 2 consecutive years of excuses about youth.

If you ask me about 2010 I'll be honest with you. I kind of feel that team overachieved. the defense may have been the greatest single collection in UW history but at forward they had Stepan and Smith and the mercurial Davies and the drop-off after that was significant, they didn't have the depth needed. I didn't expect them to win more than 1-2 games in the NCAA's that year and they surprised me. but they lost, they got smoked. and in doing so they exposed another problem that I've not addressed. the goalie played like **** that night. would that have happened if Howie was still around?

I'm not a Sauer guy but those graphs below are telling. I really wish you were around to have seen those 80's or early 90's teams. Scoring was never a problem and the goaltending was almost always spectacular. they'd smoke the hell out anything Eaves has put on the ice including the 06 team (who I hold a special place for as I loved that senior class' work ethic and attitude). People say that's no longer achievable but I disagree. DU, Nodak, Michigan, BC (the powers like Wisconsin last was way back in the early 90's) are pretty ****ed consistently good to great and seemingly always in contention.

I don't care about football or basketball @ UW nearly as much as hockey, as such and having had tickets since 1984 and watched greatness at the Dane County Colesium I want more and expect more. A LOT more. Winning consistently needs to once again be the norm and UW needs a coach that at a minimum demands that and sets a workable plan to do it. go back to recruiting Canada heavily and get a 4-6 forwards, keep mining Minnesota and get back into Michigan as well.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

If you ask me about 2010 I'll be honest with you. I kind of feel that team overachieved. the defense may have been the greatest single collection in UW history but at forward they had Stepan and Smith and the mercurial Davies and the drop-off after that was significant, they didn't have the depth needed. I didn't expect them to win more than 1-2 games in the NCAA's that year and they surprised me. but they lost, they got smoked. and in doing so they exposed another problem that I've not addressed. the goalie played like **** that night. would that have happened if Howie was still around?

Exactly how I felt about that team. Never felt like a championship team and in the end, they weren't.

The rest of your post was spot on as well.

 

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

Sorry, calling MAJOR BS on this.

The Badgers won every elimination game that actually mattered. They also won the 3rd place game against Minnesota that clinched the #1 overall seed.

They were the national champs and no one else has any legitimate claim.

Pretty sure that the Gophers would gladly trade the MacNaughton and the Sioux would gladly trade the Broadmoor for what we got.

Agreed. I would gladly swap a Broadmoor (or a MacNaughton...or both) for a National Title.

To put this into perspective, using my Greatest Teams of All-Time Formula for the 2005-2006 season, Wisconsin was #1 (#42 All-Time) at 170.8531 Points. The next highest team was BU (#73 All-Time) at 149.33 Points. FWIW, Minnesota was 3rd (#106 All-Time) at 135.3386 Points, and North Dakota was 4th (#163 All-Time) at 115.0058 Points. IMO, 21+ points is a significant gap between 1st and 2nd from that season. To me, that says that Wisconsin was clearly the best team in 2005-2006.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

Agreed. I would gladly swap a Broadmoor (or a MacNaughton...or both) for a National Title.

To put this into perspective, using my Greatest Teams of All-Time Formula for the 2005-2006 season, Wisconsin was #1 (#42 All-Time) at 170.8531 Points. The next highest team was BU (#73 All-Time) at 149.33 Points. FWIW, Minnesota was 3rd (#106 All-Time) at 135.3386 Points, and North Dakota was 4th (#163 All-Time) at 115.0058 Points. IMO, 21+ points is a significant gap between 1st and 2nd from that season. To me, that says that Wisconsin was clearly the best team in 2005-2006.

Nerd.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

Exactly how I felt about that team. Never felt like a championship team and in the end, they weren't.

The rest of your post was spot on as well.

thanks Gurt, ...2010 was an odd year, at times I couldn't tell if it was smoke and mirrors or if the team was that good.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

thanks Gurt, ...2010 was an odd year, at times I couldn't tell if it was smoke and mirrors or if the team was that good.

We were good, very good even. Just not great.

Still, had someone done us the favor and eliminated BC...

 

[Chuck Schwartz]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

If you ask me about 2010 I'll be honest with you. I kind of feel that team overachieved. the defense may have been the greatest single collection in UW history but at forward they had Stepan and Smith and the mercurial Davies and the drop-off after that was significant, they didn't have the depth needed. I didn't expect them to win more than 1-2 games in the NCAA's that year and they surprised me. but they lost, they got smoked. and in doing so they exposed another problem that I've not addressed. the goalie played like **** that night. would that have happened if Howie was still around.

I don't disagree with a lot of things you say, I just thought it was interesting that you said you had no faith in Eaves to get the team where they needed to be, and then he led them to the NCAA championship game.

You may not have thought that was a very good team, but I said from the outset of that season that I felt it was a national championship caliber club. You're underselling the hell out of the talent that was assembled on that roster. There's no question in my mind that Wisconsin rolled out the best defensive core in the history of the program that season. McDonagh, Gardiner, Smith, and Goloubef have all played in the NHL and Schultz could have if he wanted to and would be if there was no lockout. Additionally, McDonagh, Gardiner, Schultz, and Smith look like they're on pace to become stars in the league at some point if they continue on the track they are on.

Where you're underselling the team the most is offensively. Sure, Craig Smith and Derek Stepan are off to fast starts in the NHL and were outstanding players on that team. Michael Davies was also great and recorded a 50 point season (bet most don't remember that). But how can you forget Hobey Baker award winner Blake Geoffrion? Another 50 point producer who was great on faceoffs and provided much more leadership than he was given credit for. One of the best kids you'll ever meet. He's the straw that stirred the drink offensively for that club.

I fail to see how a team that was tied for the NCAA lead in goals scored that season with 171 (and 40 more than any other WCHA team) didn't have offensive depth. If they didn't have offensive depth, they must have had Gretzky suiting up in someones uniform up front that I missed along the way.

For reference, the 2009-10 team had seven double digit goal scorers. The 2005-06 team only had six double digit goal scorers. The 2009-10 team had ten, 20 point scorers. The 2005-06 team had nine 20 point scorers. The 2009-10 team had four fifty point scorers, the 2005-06 team only had two.

Did they win a title? No...but that's not entirely surprising in a one and done playoff situation. Boston College was a darn fine team that season and played better that day. But to discredit how good that team was is disingenuous.

"I say, hey look, man, tell me you don't like my firm, tell me you don't like my idea, tell me you don't like my ------- neck tie, but don't tell me that team overachieved."

 

[Badger Booster]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

If you ask me about 2010 I'll be honest with you. I kind of feel that team overachieved. the defense may have been the greatest single collection in UW history but at forward they had Stepan and Smith and the mercurial Davies and the drop-off after that was significant, they didn't have the depth needed. I didn't expect them to win more than 1-2 games in the NCAA's that year and they surprised me. but they lost, they got smoked. and in doing so they exposed another problem that I've not addressed. the goalie played like **** that night. would that have happened if Howie was still around?

Well, Chuck beat me to the punch, but I read this and was thinking "Wait, didn't Geoffrion win the Hobey Baker that year?" He also is a good example (though perhaps an exception rather than rule) of a forward getting a lot better as his career progressed as a Badger.

The 2010 team was fun to watch, was championship-worthy and their loss to BC really stung.

 

[Almington]

I don't disagree with a lot of things you say, I just thought it was interesting that you said you had no faith in Eaves to get the team where they needed to be, and then he led them to the NCAA championship game.

You may not have thought that was a very good team, but I said from the outset of that season that I felt it was a national championship caliber club. You're underselling the hell out of the talent that was assembled on that roster. There's no question in my mind that Wisconsin rolled out the best defensive core in the history of the program that season. McDonagh, Gardiner, Smith, and Goloubef have all played in the NHL and Schultz could have if he wanted to and would be if there was no lockout. Additionally, McDonagh, Gardiner, Schultz, and Smith look like they're on pace to become stars in the league at some point if they continue on the track they are on.

Where you're underselling the team the most is offensively. Sure, Craig Smith and Derek Stepan are off to fast starts in the NHL and were outstanding players on that team. Michael Davies was also great and recorded a 50 point season (bet most don't remember that). But how can you forget Hobey Baker award winner Blake Geoffrion? Another 50 point producer who was great on faceoffs and provided much more leadership than he was given credit for. One of the best kids you'll ever meet. He's the straw that stirred the drink offensively for that club.

I fail to see how a team that was tied for the NCAA lead in goals scored that season with 171 (and 40 more than any other WCHA team) didn't have offensive depth. If they didn't have offensive depth, they must have had Gretzky suiting up in someones uniform up front that I missed along the way.

For reference, the 2009-10 team had seven double digit goal scorers. The 2005-06 team only had six double digit goal scorers. The 2009-10 team had ten, 20 point scorers. The 2005-06 team had nine 20 point scorers. The 2009-10 team had four fifty point scorers, the 2005-06 team only had two.

Did they win a title? No...but that's not entirely surprising in a one and done playoff situation. Boston College was a darn fine team that season and played better that day. But to discredit how good that team was is disingenuous.

"I say, hey look, man, tell me you don't like my firm, tell me you don't like my idea, tell me you don't like my ------- neck tie, but don't tell me that team overachieved."

I began to question Eaves because of the fact that team didnt win ANYTHING with the talent that team had. A defensive corp that would make many NHL teams jelous, 2 excelent scoring lines, two veteran checking lines that were not generally going to make mistakes and a pair of experienced goaltenders.

Given the talent that team had, I would have expected them to have won SOMETHING to put in the trophy case that year and they didn't win squat. Great collection of talent, completely ununified team.

Hard to blame the goalie for any loss where you get shutout, regardless of how many goals the other team scores.

 

[markwojo]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

Debating the '06 or '10 teams and or how they compared to each other is beyond silly. The '06 team is simply stunning with how many guys have skated in the NHL and pro hockey with pretty good results. That team was deep and Els was a wall. In my opinoin, the '10 was more talented and by a fair margin...the difference was Guddy and Bennett were no Elliott and the BC team they ran into was a little better then the version they beat in '06.

The debate has little to do with '06 or '10, it is how far the drop off is in all the years around it and how/can Eaves level off the depth of those valleys.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

I don't disagree with a lot of things you say, I just thought it was interesting that you said you had no faith in Eaves to get the team where they needed to be, and then he led them to the NCAA championship game.

You may not have thought that was a very good team, but I said from the outset of that season that I felt it was a national championship caliber club. You're underselling the hell out of the talent that was assembled on that roster. There's no question in my mind that Wisconsin rolled out the best defensive core in the history of the program that season. McDonagh, Gardiner, Smith, and Goloubef have all played in the NHL and Schultz could have if he wanted to and would be if there was no lockout. Additionally, McDonagh, Gardiner, Schultz, and Smith look like they're on pace to become stars in the league at some point if they continue on the track they are on.

Where you're underselling the team the most is offensively. Sure, Craig Smith and Derek Stepan are off to fast starts in the NHL and were outstanding players on that team. Michael Davies was also great and recorded a 50 point season (bet most don't remember that). But how can you forget Hobey Baker award winner Blake Geoffrion? Another 50 point producer who was great on faceoffs and provided much more leadership than he was given credit for. One of the best kids you'll ever meet. He's the straw that stirred the drink offensively for that club.

I fail to see how a team that was tied for the NCAA lead in goals scored that season with 171 (and 40 more than any other WCHA team) didn't have offensive depth. If they didn't have offensive depth, they must have had Gretzky suiting up in someones uniform up front that I missed along the way.

For reference, the 2009-10 team had seven double digit goal scorers. The 2005-06 team only had six double digit goal scorers. The 2009-10 team had ten, 20 point scorers. The 2005-06 team had nine 20 point scorers. The 2009-10 team had four fifty point scorers, the 2005-06 team only had two.

Did they win a title? No...but that's not entirely surprising in a one and done playoff situation. Boston College was a darn fine team that season and played better that day. But to discredit how good that team was is disingenuous.

"I say, hey look, man, tell me you don't like my firm, tell me you don't like my idea, tell me you don't like my ------- neck tie, but don't tell me that team overachieved."

good points, however my view was that I had lower expectations of that team considering the 07, 08, 09 years. not fair maybe and certainly not all of the guys were on those prior teams but I'm being honest in saying they did surprise me by making the FF and then the Championship game.

part of it I guess is generally you get a feeling early when something special is brewing. I got that feeling in Eaves' first season w/the Burish crew, then they made the NCAA's in year 2, year 3 and then bam!

I haven't had that feeling since then.

it's the same feeling we had in the late 80's heading up to the 1990 championship, they had a bunch of talented guys that were beginning to coalesce into a machine.

but 2010 is one year and in the bigger picture if they miss the ncaa's for a 5th time in 7 years they're in big trouble, and to add to that you state 2013 is the worst recruiting class UW has brought in under Eaves...not good.

 

[Chuck Schwartz]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

Multiple sources including Pete Johnson indicating Eaves has hired former Badger Matt Walsh.

 

[Badger Booster]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

Multiple sources including Pete Johnson indicating Eaves has hired former Badger Matt Walsh.

Seems to fit what they needed at this point. Locally-based former Badger defenseman (& Madison native) that is able to take the job on short notice. Not exactly sure what Coach-in-Chief is, but has USA Hockey credentials. It gets someone in there and can worry about next year at a later time.

 

[Chuck Schwartz]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

Pete Johnson has since deleted his tweet to me saying that Walsh is the guy who has been hired. That said, a Madison media member told me earlier in the day that he had heard it was Walsh as well (not Baggot).

I'd be shocked if Walsh isn't the guy given the two people who told me the info.

Don't know much about him at this point other than he played for the Badgers in the early 80's, he's USA Hockey's Central District Coach-In-Chief and is based out of Janesville.

He's also listed as an assistant coach for Janesville's PeeWee A team. It would appear that he has a son on the team as there is a Sam Walsh listed on the player roster.

 

[Chuck Schwartz]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

University confirms the hiring of Walsh. LINK

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

Don't know much about him at this point other than he played for the Badgers in the early 80's, he's USA Hockey's Central District Coach-In-Chief and is based out of Janesville.

He's also listed as an assistant coach for Janesville's PeeWee A team. It would appear that he has a son on the team as there is a Sam Walsh listed on the player roster.

He's a really good youth coach. Sent my son to his checking/defenseman camp a couple of times. Also coached my son during a couple of summers with a high end youth camp/league. Great at explaining fundamentals and commands the ice as a coach. That's with youth players though, will have to see how that translates to the college level.

He was also the lead at a couple of my USA Hockey coaching certification seminars. Was very good in that role and I feel like I learned from what he had to say.

He wrote an instructional book for USA Hockey on Advanced Body Contact and Defense. Good book and quite useful.

I have a lot of respect for him and I like this choice to get us through this season. He could really help the defense.

 

[UWisco]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

Q: Will Walsh be behind the bench this weekend?



My predictions for this weekend:

Friday UW-4 Purple Cows-1
Saturday UW-3 Purple Cows-2

Really anything but a sweep is depressing.

 

[Innova]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

Game on Dish tonight? I searched through the guide, but didn't see it.