WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, What?

[Almington]

Guessing he's probably talking about Cameron Hackett, a kid that Green Bay took in the futures draft this past year. Pretty big time prospect, and Wisconsin has been in touch with the kid. He's also a fourth round OHL pick, and is a serious risk to play up there. He's from Sault Ste. Marie., Ontario.

He would be a 2014 or 2015 recruit. BU, Michigan State, & North Dakota also have showed interest.

Why would he be in the ushl if he was seriously going to play MJ? Does the ohl team that holds his rights have a logjam at goalie? Would seems like the Canadian junior leagues would work just as well as the ushl.

 

[Chuck Schwartz]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

Why would he be in the ushl if he was seriously going to play MJ? Does the ohl team that holds his rights have a logjam at goalie? Would seems like the Canadian junior leagues would work just as well as the ushl.

Well, he's not really in the USHL either...Green Bay just owns his rights. He did play one game with them, but isn't on the active roster right now. Since he's not sure if he wants to play college or major junior at this point, there's no reason for him to give up his NCAA eligibility. He's young (only a 96), so he's got a few years before he has to make a decision.

 

[Chuck Schwartz]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

Nic Kerdiles released a statement tonight:

"I want to thank everyone for all the support. Just want to let you know that all your support has been helping my family and I a ton! Thank You!"

"I have the appeal tomorrow and should be informed either that night or hopefully no later then friday about the decision!"

 

[solovsfett]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

That might be the nicest thing you have ever said about any of my posts.

I didn't mean to be harsh in the past, I probably could have worded my arguments better. You're bringing up points that I've heretofore been too cynical or pessimistic to consider.

 

[Almington]

I didn't mean to be harsh in the past, I probably could have worded my arguments better. You're bringing up points that I've heretofore been too cynical or pessimistic to consider.

No need to apologize. While we have different view points about what the problem is, what we have never disagreed about is wanting UW to be a winning team and a perennial championship contender.

It's become clear to me that something isn't right, that these teams are underperforming compared to their talent level. On a player by player comparison no other program has a consistent advantage over the Badgers. That changes the question from "why are we not winning?" to "why are these teams underperforming relative to their talent level?" which results in completely different answers. Theoretically, if losing is your issue, recruiting more and better talent should solve that problem, provided that you can consistently do that (which is going to be very difficult given scholarship limitations and competition for top recruits).

If the problem is that the team underperforms relative to its talent level compared to other teams, recruiting more talent will solve the la k of winning issue, but only by treating a symptom and not the underlying problem. It wasn't until this weekend, as I suffered through yet another come from ahead loss that it dawned on me that the one constant for the past few seasons was the team underperforming relative to talent and the more I thought about that the clearer it became that EVERY team from 2006-07 to now has underperformed relative to talent we've just become very good at making excuses: early departures, injuries, inexperience, bad officiating, general bad luck. At some point you have to look past all of those excuses and try and find the common underlying cause.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

At some point you have to look past all of those excuses and try and find the common underlying cause.

Yep. And since these players turn over every few years, what is the only constant since 06?

Besides the Kohl Center of course.

The point I made at the end of the other thread in regards to Burish & Co. is how I feel about this. The players took over the leadership of that team and willed themselves to the next level, going from a very good team to an unstoppable team.

You just can't count on that kind of chemistry happening or that a perfect storm will come together. Most of the time, it will have to come from the head coach and we haven't seen him able to consistently get his team to play at an elevated level.

In addition, we've seen him drive off every staple of the Badger program since his arrival. Long time equipment manager. One of his assistants. Most importantly - Howie. Didn't he even fire the long-time receptionist?

He gets to choose his staff, and maybe there were good reasons to move on from these people. Maybe they were so used to the Sauer Country Club that they just couldn't function at the Eaves level of intensity. But you have to wonder about a work environment and a boss when there is so much turnover.

Take all of these things as a whole (including the team underachieving and recruiting/unbalanced class issues) and the arrow points to just one spot. Right up towards the top.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

It's become clear to me that something isn't right, that these teams are underperforming compared to their talent level.

Here's a list of the NCAA schools with the most players playing in the NHL last year:

Michigan (23 players)
Wisconsin (22)
BC (21)
North Dakota (17)
Michigan State (16)
Minnesota (15)

Perhaps Michigan State has a similar problem to what we have, but do you know what the rest of those schools have in common? They are CONSTANTLY in contention in their conferences, and rarely miss the NCAAs. We are RARELY in contention in the WCHA (to be fair, that's a problem we've had forever) and will frequently miss the NCAAs. We have the talent, and it is producing at the next level. There are only so many things that can be missing for us.

 

[markwojo]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

Just wanted to share that I crossed paths with Josh Engel. He is now coaching with the Milwaukee Junior Admirals, their Squirt team. My son's team scrimmaged the Jr Ad's in Josh's first game as their coach a couple weekends ago. He apparently just got the job as the prior coach had been let go a month into their season. I was a little suprised he had given up playing as he had been playing in the AHL and is still pretty young. I'm not sure you make a ton of money in the AHL though, so if he got a good job in the Milwaukee area and can dabble with coaching to stay in hockey (I think some of those AAA coaches can make a very nice secondary income) he may be better off financial. For what it is worth, we played to a 4-4 tie (it was the kind of tie your are disappointed in as I felt we had the better of the play)

 

[markwojo]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

I've always been a pretty staunch supporter of Eaves and think he is a really good coach. I've also been preplexed by the uneven results. While a championship and a championship game appearance are pretty darn good (and not that far off of my expectations for the ultimate goals for a program like Wisconsin), the valleys relative to those peaks have been pretty steep also. I have no doubt that the uneven classes have played a part in it starting from his first few years where he needed to take large classes and that has rolled through the program every 4 years with a real uneven cycle of either very young or very experienced teams. Going into this season, we were at the point where the pendulum swing toward the experienced and my expectation were also on the upswing. One week does not make a season so I will be watching to see how things really unfold though. I would have thought that by this point we might have been able to even out the classes a little, but the revolving door of kids not panning out or panning out to well and going pro early have not seen that happen.

Regardless of the how's and why's, I think this is a pretty critical year for turning the corner and maybe getting to a more concistant place. Kerdelies is a pretty darn good player so hopefully his appeal ends well and he can play sooner then later for the Badgers. Regardless, this is a pretty experienced team that should have more success then last year. I also think that the combination of Eaves track record of getting guys to the next level and the opening of a legit practice facility should lead to more success recruiting.

 

[Almington]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

Yep. And since these players turn over every few years, what is the only constant since 06?

Besides the Kohl Center of course.

The point I made at the end of the other thread in regards to Burish & Co. is how I feel about this. The players took over the leadership of that team and willed themselves to the next level, going from a very good team to an unstoppable team.

You just can't count on that kind of chemistry happening or that a perfect storm will come together. Most of the time, it will have to come from the head coach and we haven't seen him able to consistently get his team to play at an elevated level.

In addition, we've seen him drive off every staple of the Badger program since his arrival. Long time equipment manager. One of his assistants. Most importantly - Howie. Didn't he even fire the long-time receptionist?

He gets to choose his staff, and maybe there were good reasons to move on from these people. Maybe they were so used to the Sauer Country Club that they just couldn't function at the Eaves level of intensity. But you have to wonder about a work environment and a boss when there is so much turnover.

Take all of these things as a whole (including the team underachieving and recruiting/unbalanced class issues) and the arrow points to just one spot. Right up towards the top.

To me the next question is "Why haven't the players since the 06 team taken over leadership of this team?" or, I think a better way to put it "Why have the players not taken ownership of this program?"

As fans that last question is very, very frustrating because we want more than anything to take ownership of this program and have the success that we KNOW that it should yet their is NOTHING that we can do to directly improve the situation, it makes us feel completely helpless.

Eaves is the man at the top, and ultimately responsible for the overall program, but the players themselves must be held responsible for their performance on the ice. A head coach can only do so much to influence the outcome of any specific game.

Here's a list of the NCAA schools with the most players playing in the NHL last year:

Michigan (23 players)
Wisconsin (22)
BC (21)
North Dakota (17)
Michigan State (16)
Minnesota (15)

Perhaps Michigan State has a similar problem to what we have, but do you know what the rest of those schools have in common? They are CONSTANTLY in contention in their conferences, and rarely miss the NCAAs. We are RARELY in contention in the WCHA (to be fair, that's a problem we've had forever) and will frequently miss the NCAAs. We have the talent, and it is producing at the next level. There are only so many things that can be missing for us.

It's great to have a reputation for getting players to the next level, but does a culture exist among the players that this is more about getting to the next level (ie the NHL) and less about winning at UW? I don't have a answer to that, but I do know that teams GENERALLY take on the personality of their coaches.

I don't think that anyone doubts that Eaves is an excellent hockey coach and developer of talent, but I'm beginning to wonder if he'll ever be able to be anything more than a good head coach at the college level. I can't help but wonder what Gwozdecky might have been able to accomplish at UW over the last decade given what he has accomplished at DU with much more limited resources.

 

[markwojo]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

Here's a list of the NCAA schools with the most players playing in the NHL last year:

Michigan (23 players)
Wisconsin (22)
BC (21)
North Dakota (17)
Michigan State (16)
Minnesota (15)

Perhaps Michigan State has a similar problem to what we have, but do you know what the rest of those schools have in common? They are CONSTANTLY in contention in their conferences, and rarely miss the NCAAs. We are RARELY in contention in the WCHA (to be fair, that's a problem we've had forever) and will frequently miss the NCAAs. We have the talent, and it is producing at the next level. There are only so many things that can be missing for us.

Here's some results for those programs since '05/06:

wins
BC (190)
Michigan (188)
North Dakota (188)
Minnesota (156)
UW (154)
MSU (148)

Frozen four appearances
BC (5....3 titles and 2 runnerups)
North Dakota (5 ...1 runnerup)
Wisconsin (2...1 title and a runnerup)
Michigan (2...1 runnerup)
MSU (1....1 title)
Minnesota (1)

Times missing the NCAA tourney
Wisconsin (4)
Minnesota (3)
MSU (3)
BC (1)
Michigan (0)
North Dakota (0)

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

To me the next question is "Why haven't the players since the 06 team taken over leadership of this team?" or, I think a better way to put it "Why have the players not taken ownership of this program?"

Eaves is the man at the top, and ultimately responsible for the overall program, but the players themselves must be held responsible for their performance on the ice. A head coach can only do so much to influence the outcome of any specific game.

I'm certainly not suggesting that Eaves can influence the results once they are in game.

Why haven't players taken ownership? Maybe they haven't been given the same opportunity that Burish & Co. were.

I remember hearing at the time that Eaves was overbearing and that eventually Adam went to him and said "Enough!" Things needed to be different. After that, I recall that Eaves and Burish would have weekly meetings and that a balance and understanding was reached.

We haven't had another Burish so maybe Eaves has clamped down again and won't allow for the players to claim that level of ownership? Burish was special, even if some like to pooh pooh his importance. Who else would have the balls to look Eaves in his crazy-eyes and stare right back?

It's incumbent on any leader to give his people an environment where they have the best opportunity to succeed. Is this happening?

Who knows.

 

[Timothy A]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

I can't help but wonder what Gwozdecky might have been able to accomplish at UW over the last decade given what he has accomplished at DU with much more limited resources.

I have often wondered the same thing. That is what's been so frustrating to me. DU hasn't finish lower than 4th in the wcha since 2002. Their average finish is in the wcha is 2.8, UW's is 5.1. This year and next have to be stellar, considering UW has a lot of experience and experienced goaltending I have faith in.

I think being in the B6 will a positive for Eaves, he'll have a better chance of winning the league title and making the ncaa's due to an easier schedule (which should = more wins.)

The next 6 games are not easy, @UMD, CC and @ the rodents. Is 4-2 too much to expect?

 

[Innova]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

Nic Kerdiles released a statement tonight:

"I want to thank everyone for all the support. Just want to let you know that all your support has been helping my family and I a ton! Thank You!"

"I have the appeal tomorrow and should be informed either that night or hopefully no later then friday about the decision!"

So we probably won't hear anything today, one way or the other? I'm sure you will keep us updated Chuck.

 

[Chuck Schwartz]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

So we probably won't hear anything today, one way or the other? I'm sure you will keep us updated Chuck.

I'm not sure if we'll hear anything today or not. I'm sure as soon as the news breaks it will be everywhere.

 

[Innova]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

Chuck posted and update. Looks like Pulver paid for a hotel room that Nic stayed. The family eventually paid Pulver back, but that seems to be at the heart of the matter.

 

[Gandalf the Red]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

I'm certainly not suggesting that Eaves can influence the results once they are in game.

Why haven't players taken ownership? Maybe they haven't been given the same opportunity that Burish & Co. were.

I remember hearing at the time that Eaves was overbearing and that eventually Adam went to him and said "Enough!" Things needed to be different. After that, I recall that Eaves and Burish would have weekly meetings and that a balance and understanding was reached.

We haven't had another Burish so maybe Eaves has clamped down again and won't allow for the players to claim that level of ownership? Burish was special, even if some like to pooh pooh his importance. Who else would have the balls to look Eaves in his crazy-eyes and stare right back?

It's incumbent on any leader to give his people an environment where they have the best opportunity to succeed. Is this happening?

Who knows.

The thing I have noticed over the years is the way the team plays late in games, especially if they have a lead or are tied. And this part can't be atributed to the kids on the team, because it wouldn't be so consistent. As a fan, I often get the feeling that UW plays not to lose games, instead of playing to win games. I can think of some classic 2+ goal leads where they just sat back thinking the game was done and let the opponent dictate momentum and play until the final buzzer. I think Eaves' HORRIBLE record in OT doesn't do much to tell me I'm wrong. It's one thing to have some bad luck, another to have not won a conference game that went into OT since 2007. I never have a good feeling going into OT because the impression I get from them is they are sent on to the ice to not win the game, but to not lose the game instead.

Maybe I'm wrong, but season after season of seeing the same thing from the 200 level of the kohl center tells me this is a trend. It could be the overall style Eaves coaches that leads to this, because I've never heard a kid come out and say they are coached not to win, but the caution they take is obvious, to me at least. It could be Eaves' style, I don't know.

Eaves is a great recruiter and is obviously doing something right because there are a lot of UW players he coached collecting phat $ in the NHL right now, but something is missing. There have been too many underachieving teams in between stellar 06 & 10 performances.

 

[Gandalf the Red]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

Chuck posted and update. Looks like Pulver paid for a hotel room that Nic stayed. The family eventually paid Pulver back, but that seems to be at the heart of the matter.

A night or two in a hotel not paid back "promptly" is an improper loan? The NCAA is stretching it there. If they paid it back yesterday because this came up, yes that is bad. If they paid it back even by the end of the summer, the NCAA is a joke (ok more a joke than we already thought).

And I agree w/ Chuck's point in the article about Pulver, how incompetent can they be? It is their job to not put a kid in this situation by something THEY did. I hope he has a new family advisor by now, and any NCAA bound kid stays miles away from their clown shoes agency.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: WISCONSIN Hockey Vol. 22 - Let's not have another cheesy thread title... Wait, W

I'm certainly not suggesting that Eaves can influence the results once they are in game.

Why haven't players taken ownership? Maybe they haven't been given the same opportunity that Burish & Co. were.

I remember hearing at the time that Eaves was overbearing and that eventually Adam went to him and said "Enough!" Things needed to be different. After that, I recall that Eaves and Burish would have weekly meetings and that a balance and understanding was reached.

We haven't had another Burish so maybe Eaves has clamped down again and won't allow for the players to claim that level of ownership? Burish was special, even if some like to pooh pooh his importance. Who else would have the balls to look Eaves in his crazy-eyes and stare right back?

It's incumbent on any leader to give his people an environment where they have the best opportunity to succeed. Is this happening?

Who knows.

you know this could be a big part of what's went wrong...no Burish's, or someone like him to take control as you're saying, asking the Coaches to back off a bit but holding your fellow players accountable for what the Coaches are asking.

Burish like Steve Rohlik might be a once every 10-15 years type of leader. I thought Rhino had it but maybe not, that team underperformed badly in the playoffs.

I'm not sure what it will take but the late in game collapses and the lack of intensity in OT need to become a memory. I remember watching Michigan in the mid-to-late 90's when they had Morrison, Botterill, Knuble et al between 94-98 and they just never let up. I think the only time I saw Berenson call off the dogs was when they were up 8-4 over UW mid-way through the 3rd and that score was closer than the game actually was.

whatever it is that will spark it I hope the kids find a way to take ownership of the team. if they can do that, anything will be possible.

 

[Almington]

you know this could be a big part of what's went wrong...no Burish's, or someone like him to take control as you're saying, asking the Coaches to back off a bit but holding your fellow players accountable for what the Coaches are asking.

Burish like Steve Rohlik might be a once every 10-15 years type of leader. I thought Rhino had it but maybe not, that team underperformed badly in the playoffs.

whatever it is that will spark it I hope the kids find a way to take ownership of the team. if they can do that, anything will be possible.

If those true natural leaders are so rare, why do other teams have consistently high performance? Are they better at finding and recruiting those leaders, or have they instilled a culture that BUILDS the next leader to take over?