Wisconsin Hockey Part 3: Just win, baby!

[GoBucky36]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Part 3: Just win, baby!

Its kind of hard to beat a team like SCSU when you are trying to kill a powerplay all the time.
I think the team played well, they just had a lot of bad luck with penalties.
I dont question the leadership of Geoffrion. Id chalk this loss up to the Badgers simply taking far too many penalties.
Hopefully they will play with a chip on their shoulders against Denver today.

 

[The Hallucination]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Part 3: Just win, baby!

The difference being that the 06 team had won 4 in a row before that and was en route to giving up 9 goals in the final 10 games of the year. They were peaking at the right time, had an edge and were playing their game at a high level. Now I realize that they are different teams and that this team will need to score to win, but they might want to start scoring against teams other than Tech or UAA.

I think a lot of us are looking for some sign that this team is going to elevate their game and get on some sort of a roll... something that will be necessary to win a title. The hour is getting late to still be waiting.

Another difference: playing in the 3rd place game in '06 actually helped the Badgers, strangely enough, when the rodents ended up in the 3rd place game as well and beating them locked up #1 overall and secured the GB regional. Here, the Badgers needed to win a game, any game, this weekend to lock up a one seed (#1 overall had already been eliminated as a possibility as I understand it), and as it worked out, I would've much rather they took care of business against SCSU than leaving it for a 3rd place game against a very good and potentially PO'ed Denver team. Not sure what the scenarios for slipping past #4 overall looked like though, and if any of them are still in play today, so I don't know whether we're likely to slip out of a 1 seed if we lose.

All that aside, if the team shows up appropriately motivated and ready to play, and locks up a 1 seed with a win this afternoon, I'll choose to be optimistic that it's the start of a winning streak. And this is the time of year for a winning streak.

And if my [possibly inaccurate: I've spent much more time blowing my nose the last three days than using the pairwise predictor, so I'm going off what I've read/heard] pairwise ramblings didn't give it away, yeah, I'm not that concerned about WCHA playoff titles. Sure, it's kinda nice, but securing the best possible seed to make an NCAA run is my top priority for the team in any year.

 

[DPlaya]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Part 3: Just win, baby!

I think finishing is not teachable. Either you have it, Heatley, Kariya, Vanek, Reinprecht, Granato, Toews, Oshie, et al or you don't. and this extends to all the other WCHA teams.

I mean who are you afraid to see go against your team on a breakaway, or who are you most weary of your team facing as an individual player? the only player this season I can mention is Rhett Rakshani (sp?) from DU. none of the rest of the 8 teams has a player like that really. Roe? sometimes. Connolly x2? sometimes. The difference is the players on that first list didn't show up sometimes. they were noticeably creating havoc every game.

Scoring-wise this UW team has far exceeded my expectations. But if you asked me who the snipers are, who can you count on in the clutch, I'm not sure I'd have an answer for you.

next season...however...might be a different story. This Zengerle kid looks like he's got sniper-type talent.

Agreed on the point that although there are always things you can help players improve upon, you can't really teach someone to finish. Some players just naturally position themselves better than others, and have the scoring gift.

Zengerle is more of a distributor than a scorer from what I was told by Salmon Arm's Head Coach last season when we traded e-mails.

 

[Innova]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Part 3: Just win, baby!

Another difference: playing in the 3rd place game in '06 actually helped the Badgers, strangely enough, when the rodents ended up in the 3rd place game as well and beating them locked up #1 overall and secured the GB regional. Here, the Badgers needed to win a game, any game, this weekend to lock up a one seed (#1 overall had already been eliminated as a possibility as I understand it), and as it worked out, I would've much rather they took care of business against SCSU than leaving it for a 3rd place game against a very good and potentially PO'ed Denver team. Not sure what the scenarios for slipping past #4 overall looked like though, and if any of them are still in play today, so I don't know whether we're likely to slip out of a 1 seed if we lose.

All that aside, if the team shows up appropriately motivated and ready to play, and locks up a 1 seed with a win this afternoon, I'll choose to be optimistic that it's the start of a winning streak. And this is the time of year for a winning streak.

And if my [possibly inaccurate: I've spent much more time blowing my nose the last three days than using the pairwise predictor, so I'm going off what I've read/heard] pairwise ramblings didn't give it away, yeah, I'm not that concerned about WCHA playoff titles. Sure, it's kinda nice, but securing the best possible seed to make an NCAA run is my top priority for the team in any year.

Looks like we have the #3 overal seed locked up: http://www.playoffstatus.com/ncaahockey/ncaahockeytournseedprob.html

 

[The Hallucination]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Part 3: Just win, baby!

Looks like we have the #3 overal seed locked up: http://www.playoffstatus.com/ncaahockey/ncaahockeytournseedprob.html

I've now run scenarios on pairwise predictor this morning that have us as low as 5 overall if we lose.

For example, if we lose and the following teams win, I get us a 2 seed at number 5 overall:
Miami
NMU
St. Lawrence
Cornell
BC
UND
RIT

I'm also fairly sure at this point, though I haven't checked everything, that the CCHA, ECAC, and AH tournaments have relatively little impact on our seed at this point. I think they keys, if we lose, are who wins HE and WCHA. If we lose, we do not want UND to win, and we'd prefer Maine beats BC. I haven't run enough scenarios to say those things for sure, but they seem to be true in what I have run.

ETA: Reading a few other bracketology posts confirms that others have reached similar conclusions- we lock up 3 overall with a win, but can fall if we lose. My purpose in running pairwise predictions this morning was to determine, if we lose, what impact other games have on whether we drop... so don't ask me who else is in/out in those scenarios, I was just looking for ones where we drop to 5 overall, and then did a bit of checking on what results in UND at 3 overall and us at 4 overall. Conclusion: if we lose, we want UND to lose.

 

[RinkPig]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Part 3: Just win, baby!

You guys like to think he have the best defense in college hockey history, but yet you keep losing and losing lately... what ever you guys are smoking over there most be good stuff!

 

[Puck Swami]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Part 3: Just win, baby!

Golubef has been suspended for todays 3rd place game by WCHA for yesterday's contact to the head penalty.

 

[blockski]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Part 3: Just win, baby!

"All the negativity in this town sucks."

I tend to agree with Almington that we generated a ton of great chances. It seemed like every time we got the chance to the net, Lee saved it, and when he was down and beat, we missed the net. However, this is not a hiccup. I've now been complaining about this exact thing for years. Even in the "defensive team" years, we generated chances and didn't finish. I don't know how you teach finishing, but somehow Eaves isn't doing it.

Give me a break, it's college hockey. Perhaps the long term problem with finishing plays is due to the fact that these are college kids playing the game, not professionals.

None of the teams at the Final 5 this weekend have had anything close to their A games. To many mistakes and to much sloppy play from all 5 teams.

UW's play today may not have received an A due to the number small mistakes, but I see Lee (and the stupid post) as having won this game more for SCSU than UW doing anything specific to lose it.

Games like today happen, you generate great chance after great chance and catch a post here and the goalie makes a great save there and the next thing you know you have lost a 1-0 game. You try and learn from the mistakes and then put all the talk of puck luck and bad bounces out of you mind because you have to worry about the things that you can control and ignore those you can't.

I saw the effort I expect even if the desired results were not achieved.

Well said. Sometimes you don't get the breaks. I saw good skating and good play for the most part.

They are not playing with a chip on their shoulder. They need to.

99% of fan posts about a team's effort are complete bull****, and this board is no exception. You have no idea what's going on.

I sure as hell didn't see any lack of effort.

Even when things aren't going your way, or you're making mistakes on the ice, that doesn't mean you're not playing with effort or that you lack the requisite chip on the shoulder.

The ice was freaking tilted towards the St. Cloud end while I was watching. A post here, an amazing save there, and some bad penalty calls and you get a result like this.

In sports, it's possible for you to do everything correctly and still lose. You wouldn't think that's the case from reading the boards here.

 

[dvgmacdonald]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Part 3: Just win, baby!

So, since coach juggled the lines today & we've come out with 2 goals before Denver's first shot, does he stick with this chart in the NCAA's?

 

[srkbadger]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Part 3: Just win, baby!

"All the negativity in this town sucks."



Give me a break, it's college hockey. Perhaps the long term problem with finishing plays is due to the fact that these are college kids playing the game, not professionals.



Well said. Sometimes you don't get the breaks. I saw good skating and good play for the most part.



99% of fan posts about a team's effort are complete bull****, and this board is no exception. You have no idea what's going on.

I sure as hell didn't see any lack of effort.

Even when things aren't going your way, or you're making mistakes on the ice, that doesn't mean you're not playing with effort or that you lack the requisite chip on the shoulder.

The ice was freaking tilted towards the St. Cloud end while I was watching. A post here, an amazing save there, and some bad penalty calls and you get a result like this.

In sports, it's possible for you to do everything correctly and still lose. You wouldn't think that's the case from reading the boards here.

You honestly don't see a difference between yesterday and the effort put out in the first period against Denver? Night and day to me. But then again, you may be the only one who can judge effort correctly.

BTW, I've seen Turnbull do more in the first 20 minutes today than I've see from Johnson for the last month.

 

[bucky15]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Part 3: Just win, baby!

McBain scored his first career NHL goal this afternoon against Sid the Kid's Pens......in OT with 1 sec left to play.

 

[blockski]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Part 3: Just win, baby!

You honestly don't see a difference between yesterday and the effort put out in the first period against Denver? Night and day to me. But then again, you may be the only one who can judge effort correctly.

BTW, I've seen Turnbull do more in the first 20 minutes today than I've see from Johnson for the last month.

1. I'm not watching today's game.

2. There's a funny correlation in fans' perception of effort and a team's success. Evidence of actual causation is a bit fleeting, however.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Part 3: Just win, baby!

Well said. Sometimes you don't get the breaks. I saw good skating and good play for the most part.

99% of fan posts about a team's effort are complete bull****, and this board is no exception. You have no idea what's going on.

I sure as hell didn't see any lack of effort.

Thanks for setting us all straight. BTW, Eaves didn't agree with your assessment of the effort.

If you can't see the difference between good and bad effort, maybe you shouldn't correct those of us who can.

 

[blockski]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Part 3: Just win, baby!

Thanks for setting us all straight. BTW, Eaves didn't agree with your assessment of the effort.

If you can't see the difference between good and bad effort, maybe you shouldn't correct those of us who can.

If the coach says it, that's one thing. Just remember that he's saying things to achieve a desired outcome, not to offer unvarnished, objective analysis.

Fans? Sorry, don't buy it. Heard the same things after the UW basketball team's bad game in the Big Ten tourney. No effort? Do you think they were trying to shoot less than 20%?

Again, I can tell you the difference between good play and poor play. The effort, however, is different. I've seen plenty of teams that put a lot of effort into their play, but they're still not very good. Likewise, I've seen teams with lots of talent who can play well without effort.

The armchair quarterbacking of fans, however, is like predicting that the sun will rise in the morning.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Part 3: Just win, baby!

I think there's a fair amount of truth to that. And because some players have that ability they cause opponents to change their game, which acts like compounded interest. Reinprecht may not be the top star on your list or the best goal-scorer, but he had a way of destabilizing the other team's flow when he was on the ice. Part of that was his linemate, but he was creative in the offensive zone in a way that made coverage a real problem. He was a closer with the shot or the pass.

It's not that I'm a Reinprecht groupie, but he was an example of someone who could be a closer without wowing you with his stand-alone skills. Even without considering Heatley, he was rarely the most talented player on the ice. It takes something more and, as you say, few have it. Those two Hukalo OT goals against UND started with Reinprecht in the face-off circle, if I recall. Crunch time and he delivered.

Rhino could score and set-up. What I loved most about him is he had something else a lot of other players don't have recently (and this comes from real serious work alone on the pond or basement, etc) he could stick-handle in a phone booth as they say.

I remember Paul Braun or Howie mentioning when Rhino arrived they hadn't seen a badger beat so many gopher players one on one.

I think you're right on the 2 OT goals. Rhino was the set-up man. gotta recheck youtube cause my memory isn't too great on those...

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Part 3: Just win, baby!

The armchair quarterbacking of fans, however, is like predicting that the sun will rise in the morning.

As is the fact that a few posters in this thread will act like they know more than everyone else. "There, there son. You just don't understand the big picture like I do. Run along now."

If you were watching today's game, I bet you'd see the difference in the Badger's intensity. Granted, Denver seems disinterested, but we are flying today.

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Part 3: Just win, baby!

Thanks for setting us all straight. BTW, Eaves didn't agree with your assessment of the effort.

If you can't see the difference between good and bad effort, maybe you shouldn't correct those of us who can.

yep. I think what most of are saying (Including Eaves for a moment yesterday) is that this team isn't playing well enough right now to take it all.

we obviously want them too. but some of us don't see it based on the rat game, yesterday's game, or an entire season where the team didn't win 5-6 consecutive games

plain and simple. as fans we then take what we see and analyze it based on past performances, prior years, teams,etc.

I don't think there's anything wrong with having opinions on your favorite team, their chances, their talent, their coaching, their effort.

that's part of what defines the term "fan" which is short for fanatic.

I guess what I've been thinking personally is based on prior years, 1989-90, 2005-06, I think you can see when a team is on a mission. I'm not sure if this year's UW team can be put into that category, though I'd love to see them get on 4 game win streak at the end

 

[solovsfett]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Part 3: Just win, baby!

And now for the glass is 1/2 full angle.

5-1 UW after 2. And from what I'm hearing (I'm not watching) the effort is like the 3rd period yesterday through 2.

Also - of note, that REALLY surprised me as it didn't stand out previously. Both UW and DU have not lost consecutive games all season....

UW has no losing streaks then, and 4-games is their longest win streak...

food for thought

 

[Timothy A]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Part 3: Just win, baby!

Its kind of hard to beat a team like SCSU when you are trying to kill a powerplay all the time.
I think the team played well, they just had a lot of bad luck with penalties.
I dont question the leadership of Geoffrion. Id chalk this loss up to the Badgers simply taking far too many penalties.

UW only took 5 penalties yesterday. One was a 5 mintes, so uw took 7.5 penalties yesterday. I'd say that wasn't too many.

I think effort is easy too see. If you are flying, it looks like you have an extra guy out there, and if you aren't it looks like you're always outnumbered. To me that's the easiest thing too see. In the last half of the 3rd period, it looked like UW had an extra guy out there. Before that, UW had very few great scoring chances, and when those few did occur, they got stopped.

We can agree to disagree...we're all still UW hockey kin.

LET'S GO RED!

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey Part 3: Just win, baby!

Now THAT's how you want to go into the NCAA's. Nice win, but an even better effort. Hopefully they can sustain this for four more.

How nice was it to have announcers actually do these games in a professional manner? Hendrickson & LaP-whatever and Gorg(dude looks like a Gorg) did a nice job both today and yesterday. I know they're homers, but they don't make it so painfully obvious. Hopefully Dumb and Dumber will retire soon.