Wisconsin Hockey 2019-2020: Time to Get Offensive

[MadCityRich]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey 2019-2020: Time to Get Offensive

Yep, you are one of the guys I want to drink with.

I don't drink anymore.....I don't drink anyless either.

EDIT: Have a great and safe Thanksgiving, boys. Don't eat too much, Friday is legs day.

[video]https://filmschoolrejects.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/hockey-players-optimize.gif[/video]

 

[digitalbooya]

You read that as backtracking? Lay off the thinner.
Achan is a 4th line type player imo on this team and on a championship level team.
Sorry you can’t handle different opinions. Must be tough to go through life that way.
I’ll let you acquaint yourself if you can to 73, 77, 81, 83, 90 And 06 winners and 82, 92 near misses for context on what it takes. Ring us back when you’ve absorbed a bit o’ history on what it took/takes.

Nah, I can handle your opinion. I’m just gonna let you know when it’s a bad one.

There it is. Like clockwork. Such an easy read. Lather, rinse, repeat. Remind me again, how are the 70s and 80s relevant to today? Hell, my sister is an 01’ birth and she’s in college now. You think any college kid gives a **** about what happened in the 70s and 80s? They probably don’t even care about the 90s, since they were toddlers at the time.

1) game isn’t the same
2) recruiting isn’t the same
3) media isn’t the same
4) university isn’t the same

Where’s the relevance? Jeff Sauer contributed to the downfall of hockey at UW. Mike Eaves borrowed metaphors that Badger Bob used and then YOU and others tore him apart for that for YEARS.

I was the first poster on this site to call out the “knock your socks off” dream coaching staff. It was extremely evident that Don Granato knew what he was doing and Tony Granato didn’t then and still doesn’t now.

As for knowing what it takes to be a championship team. Look up UWSP since 2014. Two runner-ups. Two national titles. One undefeated season. I know many of the players personally. Want to know a conversation I’ve never heard them talk about? How UWSP had four titles in 5 years from 1989-1993.

Maybe the point is: acknowledge that the history exists, but it has no relevance or meaningfulness to today’s program other than old man “pride” (remember the good ol’ days yar yar yar).

 

[digitalbooya]

Maybe we should bring Ringo in here to talk to the boys about Wisconsin Hockey history like he did for the team. It didn't help them win, but I bet they learned something they never knew.

If it's coming to name-calling, then **** off you ****ing mother****ers : (*sarcasm) who are accepting mediocrity (or worse) for Wisconsin Hockey for close to 15 years. 15 ****ing years!

In the past, we "old men" have seen the best college hockey in North America here in Madison and it hasn't been close for over a decade. You "young guys" haven't seen **** unless you're 20 or older if you can remember back to '06. So, the next time you decide to punk up and call names, I'm going to chase you down in my Golden Compass HD, detach my oxygen, and wrap my cane around your pencil neck.
Pardon us for yelling, "Get off my lawn" when we're told 4 years ago we'll get our socks blown off; not even close. My socks never got blown off, so I had to change them. As it turns out, the hype for this team over the summer was off the charts for nuttin', unless they run the table.

Bottom line boys, let us rant. It's not about " I remember when we used to...". It's about being accustomed to a successful, winning program, big crowds, fun crowds, not settling for a mediocre program.

24 and I went to plenty of games at the Kohl Center in 05-06. Watched the whole tournament. Got the “Twice as Nice” DVD and everything. Still watch every now and then. It’s crazy how much the game has changed, due to safety, in 14 seasons.

What’s funny about the big crowds comments is that the DCC would still be filled even today. 10k fans, right?

Nobody is arguing that the program needs to be better. That is obvious.

 

[solovsfett]

Nah, I can handle your opinion. I’m just gonna let you know when it’s a bad one.

There it is. Like clockwork. Such an easy read. Lather, rinse, repeat. Remind me again, how are the 70s and 80s relevant to today? Hell, my sister is an 01’ birth and she’s in college now. You think any college kid gives a **** about what happened in the 70s and 80s? They probably don’t even care about the 90s, since they were toddlers at the time.

1) game isn’t the same
2) recruiting isn’t the same
3) media isn’t the same
4) university isn’t the same

Where’s the relevance? Jeff Sauer contributed to the downfall of hockey at UW. Mike Eaves borrowed metaphors that Badger Bob used and then YOU and others tore him apart for that for YEARS.

I was the first poster on this site to call out the “knock your socks off” dream coaching staff. It was extremely evident that Don Granato knew what he was doing and Tony Granato didn’t then and still doesn’t now.

As for knowing what it takes to be a championship team. Look up UWSP since 2014. Two runner-ups. Two national titles. One undefeated season. I know many of the players personally. Want to know a conversation I’ve never heard them talk about? How UWSP had four titles in 5 years from 1989-1993.

Maybe the point is: acknowledge that the history exists, but it has no relevance or meaningfulness to today’s program other than old man “pride” (remember the good ol’ days yar yar yar).

History matters. Why do you think kids choose Duke, Kansas and Kentucky for basketball, Alabama for football and somehow after down years kids still choose Notre Dame and Michigan for football?

History. Tradition.

go tell Gary Suter, Chris Chelios, Paul Ranheim, Steve Tuttle, Mike Richter, CUJO, Duane Derksen, Chris Tancill, John Byce, Mark Johnson, Mike Eaves, Joe Pavelski, Andrew Schier, Brian Rafalski, Jason Zent, Danny Heatley, Steve Reinprecht, Dave Tanabe, Adam Burish, Ryan Mcmurchy, Derek Stepan et al that history doesn’t matter.

Get serious. It matters not to you maybe. But 6 championships and two runner up placements sells a program more than most.

Do you think Saban, Izzo, K et al don’t sell history and tradition?

That is why i’m ****ed. UW’s last 25 years has been 1 title, 1 runner up and mostly mediocre. There’s nothing to sell there.

If history doesn’t matter why do baseball players still idolize Ted Williams and Joe DiMaggio?

 

[digitalbooya]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey 2019-2020: Time to Get Offensive

History matters. Why do you think kids choose Duke, Kansas and Kentucky for basketball, Alabama for football and somehow after down years kids still choose Notre Dame and Michigan for football?

History. Tradition.

go tell Gary Suter, Chris Chelios, Paul Ranheim, Steve Tuttle, Mike Richter, CUJO, Duane Derksen, Chris Tancill, John Byce, Mark Johnson, Mike Eaves, Joe Pavelski, Andrew Schier, Brian Rafalski, Jason Zent, Danny Heatley, Steve Reinprecht, Dave Tanabe, Adam Burish, Ryan Mcmurchy, Derek Stepan et al that history doesn’t matter.

Get serious. It matters not to you maybe. But 6 championships and two runner up placements sells a program more than most.

Do you think Saban, Izzo, K et al don’t sell history and tradition?

That is why i’m ****ed. UW’s last 25 years has been 1 title, 1 runner up and mostly mediocre. There’s nothing to sell there.

If history doesn’t matter why do baseball players still idolize Ted Williams and Joe DiMaggio?

I think Saban can sell that he's won five national titles in that last 10 years and boasts an 87.3% win percentage. I think Izzo can sell that MSU hasn't missed the NCAA tournament since 1997. I think Coach K can sell two championships in the last 10 years and that they haven't missed the NCAA tournament since 1995. Even Harbaugh can sell that he coached a good NFL team for many years and he has a 73.4% win rate at the college level.

That's called relevant history to the here and now. These kids are not looking back at championships in the 70s and 80s. They are looking at recent years. Years where they were actually alive. Teams they grew up with.

Now look at UW's relevant history, which you generously put in your post. That is why the program is struggling now. It's because Sauer fell off at the end. It's because Eaves didn't know how to properly recruit when RELEVANT history was still there to be used. It's because Granato is probably the worst coach we've ever had for UW hockey and will likely sink the program lower because he thinks he's an AHL "farm development" coach.

Get serious. It matters not to you maybe. But 6 championships and two runner up placements sells a program more than most.

This is the problem I'm trying to point out to you. The history you are talking about doesn't matter to these potential incoming recruits.

Granato: "we have 6 national championships"
Recruit: Yeah, but that last one UW won was 14 seasons ago and you weren't the coach. The last NCAA tournament was in 2014. How are you going to help me become a better player? How are you going to make this team a winner when I am there?

Great answers to those questions are what sell the program to kids.

 

[wjefwhite]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey 2019-2020: Time to Get Offensive

Nah, I can handle your opinion. I’m just gonna let you know when it’s a bad one.

There it is. Like clockwork. Such an easy read. Lather, rinse, repeat. Remind me again, how are the 70s and 80s relevant to today? Hell, my sister is an 01’ birth and she’s in college now. You think any college kid gives a **** about what happened in the 70s and 80s? They probably don’t even care about the 90s, since they were toddlers at the time.

1) game isn’t the same
2) recruiting isn’t the same
3) media isn’t the same
4) university isn’t the same

Where’s the relevance? Jeff Sauer contributed to the downfall of hockey at UW. Mike Eaves borrowed metaphors that Badger Bob used and then YOU and others tore him apart for that for YEARS.

I was the first poster on this site to call out the “knock your socks off” dream coaching staff. It was extremely evident that Don Granato knew what he was doing and Tony Granato didn’t then and still doesn’t now.

As for knowing what it takes to be a championship team. Look up UWSP since 2014. Two runner-ups. Two national titles. One undefeated season. I know many of the players personally. Want to know a conversation I’ve never heard them talk about? How UWSP had four titles in 5 years from 1989-1993.

Maybe the point is: acknowledge that the history exists, but it has no relevance or meaningfulness to today’s program other than old man “pride” (remember the good ol’ days yar yar yar).

Its like women's hockey is now. There are only a few top programs with Wisconsin at the top. Back in the day, men's hockey had many fewer top programs and the talent was divided into a much smaller pool.

Everything now is watered down. Maine and Wisconsin have been outilers for a decade with long proud traditions. Minnesota is there too. Michigan too.

College Hockey is many times more competitive than in your so called glory days.

Getting to the top now requires a program to be better than at least 30 schools. In the past it was 15 or so.

 

[WiscTJK]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey 2019-2020: Time to Get Offensive

Thread is ugly. Certainly the history and tradition and 6 national titles needs to be included in discussion with recruits and it does matter.

I also understand the reality that we can't be as dominant as the seventies/ early eighties. However, we should expect and demand NCAA playoff teams every or almost every year. Certainly we should be in or near the top 16 every year.

Unlike football and bb, UW hockey has the ability to recruit top players / teams and realistically be in the hunt to win championships almost every year.

Until we get back consistent winning hockey, I will b1tch and complain like the other old farts here.

 

[gwhinwi]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey 2019-2020: Time to Get Offensive

Thread is ugly. Certainly the history and tradition and 6 national titles needs to be included in discussion with recruits and it does matter.

I also understand the reality that we can't be as dominant as the seventies/ early eighties. However, we should expect and demand NCAA playoff teams every or almost every year. Certainly we should be in or near the top 16 every year.

Unlike football and bb, UW hockey has the ability to recruit top players / teams and realistically be in the hunt to win championships almost every year.

Until we get back consistent winning hockey, I will b1tch and complain like the other old farts here.

Probably for the best that this thread is about to end.

I understand and love all of the passion from each of you. We are all Badgers and I love what this program means to all of us. Some of my best moments of watching sports have revolved around this program, from watching the Badgers win over UND in triple OT on a black and white TV, to watching Robbie Earl finish his hat trick in OT against UND, to being in the Resch Center watching Skille put away the winner, to being in the Bradley Center with my wife and my, then, 2 year old daughter to celebrate a national championship.

Things haven't been good of late and it is frustrating, but on this day I am thankful for the love of the program that you and I have.

It's not a good time right now, but this is when the puppies to learn how to start crawling up the hill.

 

[WiscTJK]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey 2019-2020: Time to Get Offensive

Probably for the best that this thread is about to end.

I understand and love all of the passion from each of you. We are all Badgers and I love what this program means to all of us. Some of my best moments of watching sports have revolved around this program, from watching the Badgers win over UND in triple OT on a black and white TV, to watching Robbie Earl finish his hat trick in OT against UND, to being in the Resch Center watching Skille put away the winner, to being in the Bradley Center with my wife and my, then, 2 year old daughter to celebrate a national championship.

Things haven't been good of late and it is frustrating, but on this day I am thankful for the love of the program that you and I have.

It's not a good time right now, but this is when the puppies to learn how to start crawling up the hill.

Yep agree completely. 2006 I saw all the playoff games live and it was spectacular. Something I'll never forget and probably won't happen again with both the regional and frozen four in Wisconsin.

 

[digitalbooya]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey 2019-2020: Time to Get Offensive

Until we get back consistent winning hockey, I will b1tch and complain like the other old farts here.

Its like women's hockey is now. There are only a few top programs with Wisconsin at the top. Back in the day, men's hockey had many fewer top programs and the talent was divided into a much smaller pool.

Everything now is watered down. Maine and Wisconsin have been outilers for a decade with long proud traditions. Minnesota is there too. Michigan too.

College Hockey is many times more competitive than in your so called glory days.

Getting to the top now requires a program to be better than at least 30 schools. In the past it was 15 or so.

Speaking of the women's hockey team, the sister I mentioned in the previous post really enjoys going to their games. Her and I have been to several games throughout the years, though lately it's been less with her and the rest of the family out in Indiana. She couldn't tell you jack squat about who the players are or how many national championships they have won, but she knows they are a winning team because my father, my grandmother, and myself always talk about how they are the best program on campus during the holiday gatherings.

And that's the whole point, right?

Winning = interest = people talk about it = people who wouldn't necessarily know about the team's success buy tickets = full crowd

Nobody is arguing against that this team should be NCAA tournament quality every single year. But I'm going to fire back on condescension from the older posters towards the younger posters and when I feel like someone has a poor opinion on something (ex. Achan is a 4th liner... he's a middle 6er that would look just fine on the 2nd line smh...).

Side note: My mother got me into hockey. She grew up going to games in the 70s, 80s, and the late 80s/early 90s as a student at UW where she met my father at her summer job. Both UW students. She got him to go to games. Funny enough, she doesn't like the women's game. Said the men's game is faster and more intense and an overall better experience. Us three had numerous tickets to men's games in 05-06 and season tickets from 06-08. My father and I would go to women's games a lot. My most memorable game was the 4OT 1-0 win over Harvard. Jinelle Zaugg all day.

 

[druzy192]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey 2019-2020: Time to Get Offensive

Sounds like some people are saying Wisconsin is having a hard time getting good recruits and that we don't have enough talent? Maybe I read that wrong.

In my opinion the talent is here right now. Not just the freshmen. And the speed. The team has the ability to win an NCAA championship if they get their dam heads straight and play right. Yeah I said that. More talent than the 2006 team. Yeah 2006 had more experience and that definitely counts. But this team top to bottom should win 2 out of every 3 games based on talent alone.

Goaltending may be a problem. Hard to say how good or bad they are bc they've been hung out to dry so many times.

Edit: this team can be fantastic if they get it together.

But again... quote from Dhoogie: "it be great to get a sweep"... or something similar. NO. God. Like the beautiful Bret Bielema used to say: "1-0". Just focus on the game in front of you.

 

[druzy192]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey 2019-2020: Time to Get Offensive

And some have suggested that the talent is spread out so thin that the Badgers can't be as dominant as back in the day? I disagree. We got the location for good recruits (Wisconsin, Minny, Illinois is huge, Michigan), we got the facilities, we got the campus, and we got 10,000-15,000 that will pack the Kohl if this team gets consistantly good again. Penn State, OSU and Notre Dam should have nothing on us. Yet they do.

This program is a sleeping freaking giant.

 

[MadCityRich]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey 2019-2020: Time to Get Offensive

Somebody please explain to me the success that North Dakota has year after year, decade after decade. 15,000 enrollment. Some say (not I) Greater Grand is a boring city and in the middle no where. Too many college hockey teams, talent spread out?

☆Well, "less" has not affected them.
☆4 coaches in 40 years.
☆The best hockey facility.
☆A WINNING culture with few gaps.
☆Average attendance 11,200 (97% capacity).

Like Joe Panos said, "Why not Wisconsin"?

 

[digitalbooya]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey 2019-2020: Time to Get Offensive

Somebody please explain to me the success that North Dakota has year after year, decade after decade. 15,000 enrollment. Some say (not I) Greater Grand is a boring city and in the middle no where. Too many college hockey teams, talent spread out?

☆Well, "less" has not affected them.
☆4 coaches in 40 years.
☆The best hockey facility.
☆A WINNING culture with few gaps.
☆Average attendance 11,200 (97% capacity).

Like Joe Panos said, "Why not Wisconsin"?

One could also argue that the most talented teams don't win it all every year. See: Minnesota in 05-06. With the right system in place and at least a few great players, a team can win a championship.

 

[digitalbooya]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey 2019-2020: Time to Get Offensive

Let's ****ing go boys, girls, and old farts! Game day is upon us! Kill the blue weasels!

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

the beautiful Bret Bielema

Now that’s a phrase you don’t see often.

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey 2019-2020: Time to Get Offensive

And some have suggested that the talent is spread out so thin that the Badgers can't be as dominant as back in the day?

I think it's pretty clear that it's the opposite. There is a lot more talent. But it's older, fully developed, talent that young skilled, but undeveloped players have to compete with.

A player like 18 yr old Turcotte would have been head and shoulders above most of the guys he faced and a dominant force on the ice several years ago when talent was more concentrated. And the guys on his level would have been much closer to him in age. Today though, he is not a more effective player than say, 24 yr. old Nate Sucese (PSU 6th overall in pts.) or 25yr old Devin Brosseau (Clarkson, 10th overall in pts) He just doesn't have the 6 more years of experience or the physical maturity they have, and the skill gap between him and them is not enough to overcome that deficiency on its own. Even though he will eventually be a much better player than either of those guys will ever be.

IMO, NCAA hockey is becoming the ECHL and that's not good. In the last 6 years there has been just one team to make the final with an average age of under 20 years 10 months. (The BU Fighting Jack Eichels - 20.7 yrs.) Six of the teams had an average age of nearly 22. The oldest was Q with an average age of 22.3. So older than having 100% traditional Seniors on the team.

By contrast in the preceding 6 years, 7 of 12 teams averaged under 20 years 10 months, and the oldest were senior laden teams Duluth and Miami at 21.5.

Wisconsin has an average age of 20 years, 10 months although the oldest players don't/rarely play. They have 9 regular skaters that are 19 or younger. The oldest skaters are the five '97 born players. By contrast #1 MnSt has 15 players that are '95 and '96 born, 5 or 6 years older than the majority of our skaters. This trend toward older and older players combined with the fact that the talent gap between the best drafted NCAA bound players and the top undrafted 21 year olds coming in to NCAA, is much less than it used to be by quite a bit, has created much less of an advantage, (in fact it may very well be a large disadvantage) for the bluebloods that continually bring in young high draft picks, and then lose them after a year or two. Which used to be 2 or 3 or 4 yrs. much more often, but thanks in large part to the NHL CBA that incentivises teams for bringing in younger players, that has changed as well.

Whether any of the teams like BC, BU, MN, MI or UW will be able to compete regularly at the top now or in the future with 18 yr old stars is pretty uncertain. Especially when they can't hang on to them.

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey 2019-2020: Time to Get Offensive

Somebody please explain to me the success that North Dakota has year after year, decade after decade. 15,000 enrollment. Some say (not I) Greater Grand is a boring city and in the middle no where. Too many college hockey teams, talent spread out?

☆Well, "less" has not affected them.
☆4 coaches in 40 years.
☆The best hockey facility.
☆A WINNING culture with few gaps.
☆Average attendance 11,200 (97% capacity).

Like Joe Panos said, "Why not Wisconsin"?

I think ND has always had a system of recruiting a lot of overage Canadians. (so has DU) Which has benefited them as really good older players have become more common. They have maintained a great pipeline into Canadian Juniors, and have always just mixed in a few young stars, which is the formula most everybody thinks is the correct one now days. And they have had more success in retaining some of their stars longer. That has all probably helped them maintain much better class balance, something most all the other traditional powers have really struggled with. That in addition to having a great program and facilities and virtually no admissions restrictions and strong continuity and great coaching. They haven't had to adjust much of what they have done all along.

 

[solovsfett]

I think ND has always had a system of recruiting a lot of overage Canadians. (so has DU) Which has benefited them as really good older players have become more common. They have maintained a great pipeline into Canadian Juniors, and have always just mixed in a few young stars, which is the formula most everybody thinks is the correct one now days. And they have had more success in retaining some of their stars longer. That has all probably helped them maintain much better class balance, something most all the other traditional powers have really struggled with. That in addition to having a great program and facilities and virtually no admissions restrictions and strong continuity and great coaching. They haven't had to adjust much of what they have done all along.

North Dakota, Denver, Boston College, 3 premier programs who don’t need excuses like the landscape has changed etc. Jeff Jackson as well. Successful at LSSU and at Notre Dame.

At some point whatever the excuse(s) on the table, it needs to stop and accountability followed by consistent winning needs to happen.

what’s happened for 25 years in Madison for men’s hockey is a joke. Start winning or run the coach and AD out.

 

[MadCityRich]

AGAIN...... Why not Wisconsin?

Why hasn't UW developed pipelines?

Where's their continuity over the years?

Wisko, I agree about college hockey becoming the ECHL.

Same thing with high school and major midget AAA hockey. Kids USED to make their runs there, THEN they would go USHL or in some cases NAHL. These days good 16 year olds are heading to the USHL.