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WISCONSIN HOCKEY 09-10 - Climbing The Mountain (7th Edition?)

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Re: WISCONSIN HOCKEY 09-10 - Climbing The Mountain (7th Edition?)

solovsfett said:
The vast majority of UW HOCKEY fans would disagree with the last sentence there, and they make up 70-75% of season-tickets. Not sure Barry understands that.

My Dad and I have tickets 17 rows up, center ice in the lower bowl. we'd never give those up, but would tell the AD Dept that our donations to the badger fund will cease immediately if they **ck up the hockey program by moving it to another conference, B10, CCHA, or whatever.
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I suspect that the majority of UW hockey fans wouldn't care about a switch from the WCHA to a 6 team BTHC given the opportunities that would open up in terms of NC games (7 NC series (8 if you traveled to UAA or UAF)) that would allow games against UND/SCSU/DU etc to continue and open up more opportunities against some of the eastern teams.

Moving to the CCHA would be a disaster, given that you'd lose any recognition with the semi-casual fan would have with the existing WCHA teams and the fact that visiting fan numbers would fall significantly. Not only is UW outside the geographic footprint but the number of CCHA school alumni in the Madison area is much smaller then that for the current WCHA schools.

I can't see how a move to the CCHA WOULDN'T be financial disaster for the hockey program. You trade home games with MN, UND, UMD, and SCSU for home games against UMI, MSU, ND, and NMU, no WAY that would be an equal trade.
 
Re: WISCONSIN HOCKEY 09-10 - Climbing The Mountain (7th Edition?)

solovsfett said:
The vast majority of UW HOCKEY fans would disagree with the last sentence there, and they make up 70-75% of season-tickets. Not sure Barry understands that.

My Dad and I have tickets 17 rows up, center ice in the lower bowl. we'd never give those up, but would tell the AD Dept that our donations to the badger fund will cease immediately if they **ck up the hockey program by moving it to another conference, B10, CCHA, or whatever.
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Sometimes I wonder if I'm the only one who feels this way, good to see I'm not alone.

When I go to watch Badger Hockey, I want to watch them play the best. Joining the CCHA would nullify this since as much as we rag on UAA and Tech, they are better opponents than half of the CCHA. I agree w/ Almington, attendance would plummet w/ a move to the CCHA. Barry needs to pull his head out of his ***. Has Barry been hanging out w/ Baggot and trying to trump him on bad ideas for the hockey team?

A BTHC wouldn't see the loss of fan base, but in the long run gaining Ohio State and a up and down Michigan State to give up guarnteed games against Denver, North Dakota, CC and the minny schools would be a lose for the program.
 
Re: WISCONSIN HOCKEY 09-10 - Climbing The Mountain (7th Edition?)

Gandalf the Red said:
Sometimes I wonder if I'm the only one who feels this way, good to see I'm not alone.

When I go to watch Badger Hockey, I want to watch them play the best. Joining the CCHA would nullify this since as much as we rag on UAA and Tech, they are better opponents than half of the CCHA. I agree w/ Almington, attendance would plummet w/ a move to the CCHA. Barry needs to pull his head out of his ***. Has Barry been hanging out w/ Baggot and trying to trump him on bad ideas for the hockey team?

A BTHC wouldn't see the loss of fan base, but in the long run gaining Ohio State and a up and down Michigan State to give up guarnteed games against Denver, North Dakota, CC and the minny schools would be a lose for the program.
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Absolutely agree on all points. And I'd add that while Tech might be a bottomfeeder now, they've won 3 NCAA titles. They're history trumps all CCHA schools except Michigan.

Why would I want to see UW face anyone in the CCHA on a regular basis, I'm not even particularly interested in more games against UM and MSU. and OSU? They're just no on my radar.


Guess I'm an elitist WCHA snob:D
 
Re: WISCONSIN HOCKEY 09-10 - Climbing The Mountain (7th Edition?)

You guys can stop debating the merits of a move to the CCHA. It's a negotiating tactic - nothing more.
 
Re: WISCONSIN HOCKEY 09-10 - Climbing The Mountain (7th Edition?)

Skille chipped in a goal last night and will remain on the Hawk roster...for another day since they have a game today. He'll likely be reassigned back to Rockford tommorow to save a few days of cap space until their next game.
 
Re: WISCONSIN HOCKEY 09-10 - Climbing The Mountain (7th Edition?)

blockski said:
He's put it out on the table that the current system isn't sustainable. And he's got a very positive response from OSU and nibbles from Michigan and Michigan State.

It's not about carrying out the threat, because the threat is pointless. The real threat would be the other 4 Big Ten schools opting to form their own league or their own tournament or something and forcing Minnesota into it against their will. But that's a complete hypothetical, whereas raising a move to the CCHA is tangible.
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Interesting topic for discussion though...

Frankly, there no threat to Minnesota. Most Goph fans love playing UW and would hate to see them leave. But that's the end of it, MN would never be forced to do anything against their will...including being forced to move to join a BTHC.

Say UW moves to join MI, MSU and OSU. MN fans (and likely administration) feel that UW is in the same league as a rival as UND...MI in the same league as DU...MSU in the same league with CC...and OSU with a handful of schools. And now the pot is sweetened a bit with UNO. And that says nothing about what are now great state rivalries with UMD, SCSU and MSU...and the positives for the rural parts of the state. UW and MN belong together and no, MN would not be forced. Frankly, it would stand to put UW at more risk not MN due to new recruiting relalignment out of the upper midwest and a large number of old rivals like UND that would question the value of ever playing a UW that was looking to leave their program out to dry.
 
Re: WISCONSIN HOCKEY 09-10 - Climbing The Mountain (7th Edition?)

Mike Eaves talks about the season in this brief interview from WPT...

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Re: WISCONSIN HOCKEY 09-10 - Climbing The Mountain (7th Edition?)

blockski said:
You guys can stop debating the merits of a move to the CCHA. It's a negotiating tactic - nothing more.
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But doesn't the value of threat in negotiations depend on the possibility of actuallyfollowing through on that tactic? It's great to make that bluff to get MN to the negotiation table with regards to the B10 conference relationships as they relate to hockey, but at some point you'll have to show your cards and it's clear that from a financial and PR perspectives a move from the WCHA to CCHA would be a step down.

Something that hasn't been mentioned is that the WCHA playoffs are EXTREMELY profitable for the league such that EVERY WCHA School gets a nice large check, the CCHA playoffs are lucky when they don't lose money for the league. Plus ST. Paul >>>>>>>> Detroit for the conference championship tournament.
 
Re: WISCONSIN HOCKEY 09-10 - Climbing The Mountain (7th Edition?)

5mn_Major said:
Interesting topic for discussion though...

Frankly, there no threat to Minnesota. Most Goph fans love playing UW and would hate to see them leave. But that's the end of it, MN would never be forced to do anything against their will...including being forced to move to join a BTHC.

Say UW moves to join MI, MSU and OSU. MN fans (and likely administration) feel that UW is in the same league as a rival as UND...MI in the same league as DU...MSU in the same league with CC...and OSU with a handful of schools. And now the pot is sweetened a bit with UNO. And that says nothing about what are now great state rivalries with UMD, SCSU and MSU...and the positives for the rural parts of the state. UW and MN belong together and no, MN would not be forced. Frankly, it would stand to put UW at more risk not MN due to new recruiting relalignment out of the upper midwest and a large number of old rivals like UND that would question the value of ever playing a UW that was looking to leave their program out to dry.
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I'm not sure what the B10 bylaws are but I believe that MN could be forced to join a B10 hockey conference if one is formed or risks losing some of their B10 TV money (or worse).
 
Re: WISCONSIN HOCKEY 09-10 - Climbing The Mountain (7th Edition?)

Almington said:
But doesn't the value of threat in negotiations depend on the possibility of actuallyfollowing through on that tactic? It's great to make that bluff to get MN to the negotiation table with regards to the B10 conference relationships as they relate to hockey, but at some point you'll have to show your cards and it's clear that from a financial and PR perspectives a move from the WCHA to CCHA would be a step down.

Something that hasn't been mentioned is that the WCHA playoffs are EXTREMELY profitable for the league such that EVERY WCHA School gets a nice large check, the CCHA playoffs are lucky when they don't lose money for the league. Plus ST. Paul >>>>>>>> Detroit for the conference championship tournament.
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No, the threat doesn't have to be real. When you bluff, you don't always hold the cards. Otherwise, it's not a bluff.

To me, it sounds like Maturi's initial response was like the typical BTHC thread on this board - greeted with snarky comments and rapid dismissal. Alvarez had to do something to shake things up, and it seems he accomplished that.

Now that he got Maturi to the table and put the issue out there, he can reveal that he was bluffing (hence the quote about Eaves not wanting to go in the original article).
 
Re: WISCONSIN HOCKEY 09-10 - Climbing The Mountain (7th Edition?)

Andy Baggott really asked Patty johnson in and interview..if he was an NHL all star, would he take Performance Enhancing drugs... haha what in the H E double hockey sticks kinda question is that... Seriously... Who asks that kinda question?? What did he expect him to say, yeah i'd think about it???
 
Re: WISCONSIN HOCKEY 09-10 - Climbing The Mountain (7th Edition?)

blockski said:
No, the threat doesn't have to be real. When you bluff, you don't always hold the cards. Otherwise, it's not a bluff.

To me, it sounds like Maturi's initial response was like the typical BTHC thread on this board - greeted with snarky comments and rapid dismissal. Alvarez had to do something to shake things up, and it seems he accomplished that.

Now that he got Maturi to the table and put the issue out there, he can reveal that he was bluffing (hence the quote about Eaves not wanting to go in the original article).
Click to expand...

The problem is that he can't use the CCHA card again. The fact that MSU and UMI came to the talks with an open mind says all that needs to be said about the CCHA as a desired location.

Maturi's bigger concern is if a 6th B10 team ever actually starts a program because it's clear that the other 5 B10 schools would seriously consider the move and that would force MN's hand. That is why he had to go to the talks, because he has to make sure that MSU and UMI stay in the "no" camp on the BTHC given that OSU is strongly in favor of it (as would be any other new B10 program) and that he can't count on UW's support going forward as long as BA remains the AD.

The biggest issue is that it's easier to accept for non-hockey fans finishing fourth in the conference behind other B10 schools then it is the many D-III, D-II, D-I FCS or D-I non-football schools that comprise ~2/3 of the CCHA and WCHA membership. Hockey is unique in many respects that it isn't dominated by a small cabal of ~80 major programs that control Football and Basketball. It seems Alvarez isn't able to grasp that it is this unique aspect of hockey that is what hockey fans love and what makes them so passionate about the sport. I see this as being very similar as to what the NHL did, the failed to recognize that made the game great and tried to go more mainstream, and this is a major reason they has so many programs in financial difficulty in places that they shouldn't have ever been placed. Trying to take NCAA hockey mainstream with so few teams will be equally as devastating on the sport's future, Maturi realizes this and Alvarez does not. It is up to Maturi to make sure that the AD's at MSU and UMI understand this and can express this to those who will actually make the final decision. [/soapbox]
 
Re: WISCONSIN HOCKEY 09-10 - Climbing The Mountain (7th Edition?)

Almington said:
The problem is that he can't use the CCHA card again. The fact that MSU and UMI came to the talks with an open mind says all that needs to be said about the CCHA as a desired location.

Maturi's bigger concern is if a 6th B10 team ever actually starts a program because it's clear that the other 5 B10 schools would seriously consider the move and that would force MN's hand. That is why he had to go to the talks, because he has to make sure that MSU and UMI stay in the "no" camp on the BTHC given that OSU is strongly in favor of it (as would be any other new B10 program) and that he can't count on UW's support going forward as long as BA remains the AD.

The biggest issue is that it's easier to accept for non-hockey fans finishing fourth in the conference behind other B10 schools then it is the many D-III, D-II, D-I FCS or D-I non-football schools that comprise ~2/3 of the CCHA and WCHA membership. Hockey is unique in many respects that it isn't dominated by a small cabal of ~80 major programs that control Football and Basketball. It seems Alvarez isn't able to grasp that it is this unique aspect of hockey that is what hockey fans love and what makes them so passionate about the sport. I see this as being very similar as to what the NHL did, the failed to recognize that made the game great and tried to go more mainstream, and this is a major reason they has so many programs in financial difficulty in places that they shouldn't have ever been placed. Trying to take NCAA hockey mainstream with so few teams will be equally as devastating on the sport's future, Maturi realizes this and Alvarez does not. It is up to Maturi to make sure that the AD's at MSU and UMI understand this and can express this to those who will actually make the final decision. [/soapbox]
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Right on!

and I never thought I'd say this but if Alvarez keeps toying with dumb ideas re: UW Hockey I'm going to have to say he's GOT TO GO! In comparison, eff football and basketball.

but while I'm on this.......why doesn't someone tell mr. arrogant that UW is missing a certain BASEBALL team that really is pretty **** important...***?

I miss Pat Richter:)
 
Re: WISCONSIN HOCKEY 09-10 - Climbing The Mountain (7th Edition?)

uwbadgers14 said:
Andy Baggott really asked Patty johnson in and interview..if he was an NHL all star, would he take Performance Enhancing drugs... haha what in the H E double hockey sticks kinda question is that... Seriously... Who asks that kinda question?? What did he expect him to say, yeah i'd think about it???
Click to expand...

We encourage performance enhancing drugs in the Thunder Island Hockey League.
 
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