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Wisconsin Badgers 2010-2011, The next generation.

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Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2010-2011, The next generation.

Gurtholfin said:
This looks like a hit that happens all of the time and draws cheers from the fans of the hitter. Until the hittee doesn't get up.
Hard for me to see intent to injure here. Intent to hurt? Most definitely, but 80% of checks have intent to hurt involved in them.

Very unfortunate and I hope the Pioneer player recovers.
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See the problem here is when Frattin railroaded Wehrs last year @ G.F. (in a complete blatant obvious cheapshot) and Wehrs didn't get up, the crowd cheered and continued to cheer while Wehrs laid on the ice. Granted it could have been a result of the ensuing brawl that happened afterwards, but still...just because the crowd is cheering doesn't mean it is a clean hit.

As for your 80% intent to harm when a guy is checking...I hope that is not true. I was taught in my years of hockey that you check the man to dislodge him from the puck, not to blow the guy up when, in this case, it looks like Malone could have taken the puck right off Martin's stick and made a beeline towards the net without having to check Martin at all. JMHO.
 
Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2010-2011, The next generation.

HoosierBBall_GopherHockey said:
See the problem here is when Frattin railroaded Wehrs last year @ G.F. (in a complete blatant obvious cheapshot) and Wehrs didn't get up, the crowd cheered and continued to cheer while Wehrs laid on the ice. Granted it could have been a result of the ensuing brawl that happened afterwards, but still...just because the crowd is cheering doesn't mean it is a clean hit.

As for your 80% intent to harm when a guy is checking...I hope that is not true. I was taught in my years of hockey that you check the man to dislodge him from the puck, not to blow the guy up when, in this case, it looks like Malone could have taken the puck right off Martin's stick and made a beeline towards the net without having to check Martin at all. JMHO.
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This is similar to the debate going on about hits in football. By hurt, I don't mean injure, and that's why I tried to distinguish between the two.

Part of contact sports is intimidation and physically wearing out your opponent. Every time you hit someone, it takes a toll on their energy level and their future willingness to go where they might get hit again. It is true that we are taught, and continue to teach that you hit to separate a player from the puck.

But we also teach that you hit hard and finish your check. If you are tentative, the player may escape and you may not execute the check with the proper technique, possibly resulting in injury. In addition, you allow the opposing players to win territorial battles and start to assert themselves.

So you hit, hoping that it hurts (causes discomfort, not injury) and that next time down the ice, that player will think twice about taking the puck to that area.

This is the same in every sport, basketball too. Protect the lane. Hard fouls, not cheap.

FWIW, I don't like blow up hits and it wouldn't bother me if checking was eliminated from the game. I know, blasphemy!
 
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Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2010-2011, The next generation.

HoosierBBall_GopherHockey said:
See the problem here is when Frattin railroaded Wehrs last year @ G.F. (in a complete blatant obvious cheapshot) and Wehrs didn't get up, the crowd cheered and continued to cheer while Wehrs laid on the ice. Granted it could have been a result of the ensuing brawl that happened afterwards, but still...just because the crowd is cheering doesn't mean it is a clean hit.

As for your 80% intent to harm when a guy is checking...I hope that is not true. I was taught in my years of hockey that you check the man to dislodge him from the puck, not to blow the guy up when, in this case, it looks like Malone could have taken the puck right off Martin's stick and made a beeline towards the net without having to check Martin at all. JMHO.
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No. In any contact sport, you aim to hurt (not injure; big difference). I can't remember the athlete, it even could be from a movie (The Program is probably the leading candidate), but the quote is, "You want him to forget his number, and remember yours."

As for the hurt/injure difference, that WAS from the movie "The Program" and it is:

Are you hurt or are you injured?
What's the difference?
If you're hurt, you can play. If you're injured, you can't play.
I'm hurt.
 
Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2010-2011, The next generation.

Gurtholfin said:
This is similar to the debate going on about hits in football. By hurt, I don't mean injure, and that's why I tried to distinguish between the two.

Part on contact sports is intimidation and physically wearing out your opponent. Every time you hit someone, it takes a toll on their energy level and their future willingness to go where they might get hit again. It is true that we are taught, and continue to teach that you hit to separate a player from the puck.

But we also teach that you hit hard and finish your check. If you are tentative, the player may escape and you may not execute the check with the proper technique, possibly resulting in injury. In addition, you allow the opposing players to win territorial battles and start to assert themselves.

So you hit, hoping that it hurts (causes discomfort, not injury) and that next time down the ice, that player will think twice about taking the puck to that area.

This is the same in every sport, basketball too. Protect the lane. Hard fouls, not cheap.

FWIW, I don't like blow up hits and it wouldn't bother me if checking was eliminated from the game. I know, blasphemy!
Click to expand...

I just wanted to quote this post because it was perfect.
 
Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2010-2011, The next generation.

Brenthoven said:
Except for the checking part. That part is asinine.
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How about making charging and boarding majors, which would help to eliminate a lot of the dangerous hits?

Yeah, that's what I meant! ;)
 
Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2010-2011, The next generation.

Gurtholfin said:
How about making charging and boarding majors, which would help to eliminate a lot of the dangerous hits?

Yeah, that's what I meant! ;)
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I'll let you have that one. ;)

I wanna see big hits, huge collisions. But only legally. And never see a guy injured. Yep, pipe dream: if you have one, you have the other, on occasion. So goes the way of the sport. It's a contact sport.

Now, not that I'm a pumpkin pusher fan, but how about eliminating the checking in that sport? It IS a non-contact sport, after all. :p
 
Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2010-2011, The next generation.

GoBucky36 said:
IMO it was a hit at full speed with a bit of elbow throw in for good measure. Martin should have kept his head up, yes but you could also say that such a brutal hit was unneccesary and was done with intent to injur.
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I wish I could see the whole ice about 5 seconds before that hit. To me, it looks like Malone is coming to hit him regardless, Martin is looking up, should see this coming, then looks down and in that moment is crushed. I see more elbow this time, but I see shoulder first then some elbow as the body follows through. I'm certainly not defending Malone, but hard to slow down at that point because a player randomly puts their head down. Had Martin not put his head down, would this even be a discussion? He probably would have landed on his *** after a big hit.

Gurtholfin makes some great pts in his two posts. North Dakota plays to punish you w/ every hit, not injury you. They play a very physical style of play, and largely it is effective for them; they intimidate their opponents, or try to at least. Even w/ taht said, I can't believe these kids go out there planning to injure people, maybe Brett Hextall, but not the whole lot.

Hard hit on a guy who momentarily put his head down, wrong place wrong time, horrible injury. Hope Jesse Martin gets better soon and is back on the ice for DU next season.
 
Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2010-2011, The next generation.

Gandalf the Red said:
Even w/ taht said, I can't believe these kids go out there planning to injure people, maybe Brett Hextall, but not the whole lot.
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Maybe you cant, but I can. Year after year, NoDak goes out there to see how bad they can beat up the opposing team every weekend and how many fights they can pick. They are a team of goons, nothing more.
Hope Jesse Martin gets better soon and is back on the ice for DU next season.
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Amen to that!
 
Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2010-2011, The next generation.

GoBucky36 said:
Year after year, NoDak goes out there to see how bad they can beat up the opposing team every weekend and how many fights they can pick. They are a team of goons, nothing more.
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Neat.
 
Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2010-2011, The next generation.

GoBucky36 said:
Maybe you cant, but I can. Year after year, NoDak goes out there to see how bad they can beat up the opposing team every weekend and how many fights they can pick. They are a team of goons, nothing more.
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Are you serious with this?
 
Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2010-2011, The next generation.

GoBucky36 said:
Maybe you cant, but I can. Year after year, NoDak goes out there to see how bad they can beat up the opposing team every weekend and how many fights they can pick. They are a team of goons, nothing more.
Click to expand...

Very intelligent! What are you basing this on? So this whole time I thought NoDak was going out there to win games, but I've been mistaken, they've been going out there to beat up people!
 
Re: Wisconsin Badgers 2010-2011, The next generation.

Gandalf the Red said:
I wish I could see the whole ice about 5 seconds before that hit. To me, it looks like Malone is coming to hit him regardless, Martin is looking up, should see this coming, then looks down and in that moment is crushed. I see more elbow this time, but I see shoulder first then some elbow as the body follows through. I'm certainly not defending Malone, but hard to slow down at that point because a player randomly puts their head down. Had Martin not put his head down, would this even be a discussion? He probably would have landed on his *** after a big hit.

Gurtholfin makes some great pts in his two posts. North Dakota plays to punish you w/ every hit, not injury you. They play a very physical style of play, and largely it is effective for them; they intimidate their opponents, or try to at least. Even w/ taht said, I can't believe these kids go out there planning to injure people, maybe Brett Hextall, but not the whole lot.

Hard hit on a guy who momentarily put his head down, wrong place wrong time, horrible injury. Hope Jesse Martin gets better soon and is back on the ice for DU next season.
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What would've happened if that hit occurred in the NHL? Methinks there would have been a slobber knocker of a fight.

(Before switching to the NJ @ CHI game, I was watching TOR @ WASH on TSN. Is there anybody more ****ing annoying than Pierre McDouché?)
 
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