Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?

[joecct]

Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?

Thank you! I am FINALLY comprehending! So, my guess, fwiw (lol) is, eventually, St. A's could move up, to the Atlantic League perhaps? And St. Mikes? Who knows, if they are forced out of the ECAC-E, which will probably happen after next season right?

PS- I was, in fact watching the Union -UML game last night!

There are 6 teams right now that could qualify for the NCAA Division I tournament, if they had the guts to do it:
St. Anselm
St. Michaels
Stonehill
Southern New Hampshire
Assumption
Franklin Pierce

AKA the NE-10. IIRC, if they play at least a 20 game schedule against D-II's and D-I's (think AIC like), then they get an AQ.

 

[NUProf]

Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?

There are 6 teams right now that could qualify for the NCAA Division I tournament, if they had the guts to do it:
St. Anselm
St. Michaels
Stonehill
Southern New Hampshire
Assumption
Franklin Pierce

AKA the NE-10. IIRC, if they play at least a 20 game schedule against D-II's and D-I's (think AIC like), then they get an AQ.

For what it's worth, Southern New Hampshire was the lowest ranked team in the D3hockey.com computer rankings of DII and DIII teams last season. In fact they managed to achieve the lowest possible score of 200 for 3 of the last 4 weeks.

 

[norm1909]

Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?

There are 6 teams right now that could qualify for the NCAA Division I tournament, if they had the guts to do it:
St. Anselm
St. Michaels
Stonehill
Southern New Hampshire
Assumption
Franklin Pierce

AKA the NE-10. IIRC, if they play at least a 20 game schedule against D-II's and D-I's (think AIC like), then they get an AQ.

They are a Proud Member of NCAA Division II

 

[sbkbghockey]

Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?

Except that more than half of the hockey playing D-II schools play up. Plus passage of 2010-100 ended new playups. I wonder if its a good idea to have two sets of rules for the same division?

For example, Lindenwood decides to field a men's hockey team. By rule, they can no longer declare to play up. However, they can still play in the big boy's sandbox because D-II does not sponsor a hockey championship. The same is currently true for the current members of the NE-10.

The Saints remind me of the elderly child who refuses to leave the family nest. They need to get the boot and strike out on their own

I agree with joecct, DII schools play majority DIII and NE-10 schedules aren't realy playing as DII programs, DII athletics can offer scholarships so they should not be considered equal to DIII schools that can't. They're playing down. If they want to participate in a championship level, DII schools playing down in DIII or any other DII school that wants to start NCAA hockey can still play NCAA DI Hockey per Rule 20.8.2. The NCAA getting rid of the play up rule ends DIII schools playing up in sports (i.e. RIT and CC) because a championship is held in those sports.

"20.8.2 Division II options when no Division II Championship is Conducted. An active member institution that holds membership in Division II is eligible to compete in the Division I championship in those sports for which no championship is conducted in Division II. The Division II institution shall declare its intention to compete by June 1. This declaration of intent shall be effective for a minimum of three years."

Also a note on Lindenwood: They run their ACHA men's program as a varsity-club program with recruiting, practice 4-5 times per week, video secessions, off-ice conditioning, NHL experienced coaching staff, RBK equipment deal, etc... I think we'll see them be the 10th addition to the WCHA in a few years, they've already added NCAA women's hockey because women's hockey is a national collegiate level with no distinction between DII and DI. under the above rule, Lindenwood is not considered an "active member institution that holds membership in Division II" until approval from the NCAA in the 2013-14 academic year. I think we'll see LU announce DI men's hockey in 2014 shortly after gaining active NCAA membership.

 

[hawkhockey]

Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?

I've never understood the NCAA's stand on playing up - the old rules made sense to me - in fact, why can't a DII or DIII school decide it wants to play basketball or football at the DI level if they choose to. To me that would promote more of the "David and Goliath" drama that flows out of a small DI school making a run through the bloat ball field.

In any case, it you want a single rule here it is. "In any sport in which there is no DII sponsored championship, a school may opt to play for the DI or DIII championship. If they choose to play for the DIII championship, they must comply with all rules governing that sport at the DIII level, including, but not limited to schedules, recruiting, eligibility, and financial aid. If they opt to play for the DI national championship they will continue to be governed by applicable DII rules."

I have a few connections with St. Mike's they simply don't have the resources to support a program that wants to compete with the UVMs, RPIs, etc. They do want to preserve their DII basketball tradition which is very important to them.

Thank you . for hitting this issue head on. Some, 2000 student, DII schools do not belong or want to belong to the DI life in any sport, including ice hockey.
The ECACE NE-10 schools currently and have consistently played by, for all extents and purposes, all DIII rules in regards to hockey.
What complicates things for the Saints is that they both have womens varsity hockey programs that would have as difficult, if not more difficult, time finding a home. Thank you again for your Vermont sensibility and insight.now if only we could get the NCAA to take a trip to Vt., maybe there is something in the air.

 

[norm1909]

Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?

Thank you . for hitting this issue head on. Some, 2000 student, DII schools do not belong or want to belong to the DI life in any sport, including ice hockey.
The ECACE NE-10 schools currently and have consistently played by, for all extents and purposes, all DIII rules in regards to hockey.
What complicates things for the Saints is that they both have womens varsity hockey programs that would have as difficult, if not more difficult, time finding a home. Thank you again for your Vermont sensibility and insight.now if only we could get the NCAA to take a trip to Vt., maybe there is something in the air.

IMO, the biggest single problem facing the ECACE NE-10 is a lack of representation - there is NO NCAA Division II Men's Ice Hockey Committee. Without anyone to adequately represent them and present their needs they will find themselves in a very small pond.

 

[norm1909]

Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?

Number of NCAA member institutions that offer men's ice hockey:

• Division I: 59
• Division II: 6
• Division III: 73
Divisions I and III hold national championships; Division II members compete in either Division
I (in the majority of instances) or Division III. Division I programs compete in special men's ice
hockey-only conferences that are not connected with their member institution's primary athletics
conferences. This will change in the 2013-14 season when the Big Ten Conference starts
sponsoring men's ice hockey.

 

[NUProf]

Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?

Number of NCAA member institutions that offer men's ice hockey:

• Division I: 59
• Division II: 6
• Division III: 73
Divisions I and III hold national championships; Division II members compete in either Division
I (in the majority of instances) or Division III. Division I programs compete in special men's ice
hockey-only conferences that are not connected with their member institution's primary athletics
conferences. This will change in the 2013-14 season when the Big Ten Conference starts
sponsoring men's ice hockey.

Norm - I count 71 DIII programs as of the moment - NCHA 7 - MIAC 9 - MCHA 8 = 24 teams in the West region
SUNYAC - 9, ECAC West 5 - ECAC East 8 - NESCAC 10 - MASCAC 7 - ECAC NE 8 = 47 teams in the East - Total of 71. Nazareth will make it 72, unless there is a secret team out there that we don't know about.

 

[norm1909]

Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?

Norm - I count 71 DIII programs as of the moment - NCHA 7 - MIAC 9 - MCHA 8 = 24 teams in the West region
SUNYAC - 9, ECAC West 5 - ECAC East 8 - NESCAC 10 - MASCAC 7 - ECAC NE 8 = 47 teams in the East - Total of 71. Nazareth will make it 72, unless there is a secret team out there that we don't know about.

I concur, also did you realize that "in the majority of instances" - the six Division II members offering men's ice hockey
compete in Division I?

Note the NCAA document date is: February 16-17, 2012.

 

[hawkhockey]

Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?

I concur, also did you realize that "in the majority of instances" - the six Division II members offering men's ice hockey
compete in Division I?

Note the NCAA document date is: February 16-17, 2012.

Could you clarify the " in the majority of instances"....compete in DI . comment for me ? 4 of the 6 compete in DI hockey ?

 

[joecct]

Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?

I concur, also did you realize that "in the majority of instances" - the six Division II members offering men's ice hockey
compete in Division I?

Note the NCAA document date is: February 16-17, 2012.

Just to clarify (I think)
Ferris State = Division II (they play Union in one FF semifinal, the winner gets the play-up belt)
Merrimack, Mass-Lowell, AIC, Bentley -- Division II
St. Cloud St., Minnesota-Duluth, Michigan Tech, Northern Michigan, Lake State = Division II

If I am not mistaken, the (new) WCHA is all D-II with the exception of Bowling Green.

 

[norm1909]

Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?

Could you clarify the " in the majority of instances"....compete in DI . comment for me ? 4 of the 6 compete in DI hockey ?

NONE of these 6 do (Compete on DI hockey) -
St. Anselm
St. Michaels
Stonehill
Southern New Hampshire
Assumption
Franklin Pierce

 

[norm1909]

Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?

Just to clarify (I think)
Ferris State = Division II (they play Union in one FF semifinal, the winner gets the play-up belt)
Merrimack, Mass-Lowell, AIC, Bentley -- Division II
St. Cloud St., Minnesota-Duluth, Michigan Tech, Northern Michigan, Lake State = Division II

If I am not mistaken, the (new) WCHA is all D-II with the exception of Bowling Green.

I'd be happy with knowing where these numbers come from -

Number of NCAA member institutions that offer men's ice hockey:

• Division I: 59
• Division II: 6
• Division III: 73

 

[LtPowers]

Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?

I'd be happy with knowing where these numbers come from -

59 is the current total of schools playing D-I men's hockey, if you include Penn State.

6 is the current total of schools playing D-II men's hockey. The six happen to play a largely D-III schedule, two of them actually belonging to D-III conferences and thus bound by D-III rules... but they are D-II teams and participate in a postseason tournament sponsored by their D-II conference. (Side note: when did those other four teams leave the ECAC Northeast?)

73 is the current total of schools playing D-III men's hockey, if you include Nazareth and ... okay, I have no clue.


Powers &8^]

 

[CARDS_rule_the_Burgh]

Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?

(Side note: when did those other four teams leave the ECAC Northeast?)

They were shown the door when the MASCAC was created. ECACNE teams knew they'd be facing the potential of something like 8 DII games each year, and they was enough for them to say goodbye. I believe there was an agreement for a guaranteed amount of OOC games between the 2 groups, but not as much interplay s there would have otherwise been.

 

[NUProf]

Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?

I concur, also did you realize that "in the majority of instances" - the six Division II members offering men's ice hockey
compete in Division I?

Note the NCAA document date is: February 16-17, 2012.

I believe what they may have meant is that a majority of DII teams play at the DI level, but there are 6 that don't. (Maybe ?). And I believe the mystery team is RIT

 

[UCBadger]

Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?

I believe what they may have meant is that a majority of DII teams play at the DI level, but there are 6 that don't. (Maybe ?). And I believe the mystery team is RIT

If you include RIT then what about Colorado College, St. Lawrence, Union, Clarkson and perhaps a few other D-IIIs that play big time hockey?

I believe the numbers stated are for the hockey member of each division, that is, the ones above are included the D-I totals.

 

[LtPowers]

Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?

I believe the numbers stated are for the hockey member of each division, that is, the ones above are included the D-I totals.

Yes, you can only get to 59 D-I teams if you include RIT and the other D-III schools (RPI, CC, Union, St. Lawrence, and Clarkson). (Not to mention the plethora of D-II schools like UAH, AIC, Bemidji, etc.)

Is it possible there's a 73rd D-III school in the planning stages that hasn't announced?



Powers &8^]

 

[Rhett]

Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?

There's certainly a lot of well educated people arguing over what is most likely a typo here. The difference between "72" and "73" D-III schools is more likely due to someone moving their left ring finger 5 millimeters to the right of where they intended than it is to indicate the presence of a "mystery school".

 

[NUProf]

Re: Will the DII's ever get out of Limbo?

There's certainly a lot of well educated people arguing over what is most likely a typo here. The difference between "72" and "73" D-III schools is more likely due to someone moving their left ring finger 5 millimeters to the right of where they intended than it is to indicate the presence of a "mystery school".

I think there's more a bit of off season boredom manifesting itself than anything else - also the way the description of DII teams was a bit inaccurate.